tsylvester Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I agree with this..... I posted the numbers, Smith is not on the same level as the aforementioned receivers, it is not even close. Those other receivers all get off the jam better, all find the ball easiler, all have much better body control than Smith. He may draw some penalties, but teams do not game plan for him any longer. They know he will run one of three routes and he makes it easy to tell each time he lines up, which route he is going to run. Yes, even a rookie with speed will do the same thing to a defense, maybe even better since he would be a virtual unknown as far as route running and combinations. I wish writers would stop using the "teams game plan for him" since it simply is not completely true. Teams game plan for everyone.... duh,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If we lose Torrey rest assure Jacoby will be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I posted the numbers, Smith is not on the same level as the aforementioned receivers, it is not even close. Those other receivers all get off the jam better, all find the ball easiler, all have much better body control than Smith. He may draw some penalties, but teams do not game plan for him any longer. They know he will run one of three routes and he makes it easy to tell each time he lines up, which route he is going to run. Yes, even a rookie with speed will do the same thing to a defense, maybe even better since he would be a virtual unknown as far as route running and combinations. I wish writers would stop using the "teams game plan for him" since it simply is not completely true. Teams game plan for everyone.... duh,,I'm so conflicted by Torrey. He's a very likable guy, a good representative of the team. My wife has a Torrey jersey, he and Tucker are really the only Ravens she knows/likes. However, the truth is what you state above. To add to what you said: while he has speed when have we ever seen a clean deep ball from Flacco to Torrey? It is always overthrown or Torrey has to come back for the ball. For whatever reason Torrey and Flacco are never the same page short or deep. There was an analysis I posted earlier in this topic that stated most of Flacco's INTs are when he throws to Torrey. Another thing on Torrey, and maybe my observation isn't justified, but I just don't see the right type of competitiveness. I don't see good run blocking. This season he looked lackadaisical too often. The body language was telling. He also lets opponents get under his skin too easily, we saw this in the Pats game with the two penalties. We see this in Torrey's Twitter feed. He cannot leave the troll tweets alone, he has to respond to everyone single one. I understand it must be tough to be in his position, but it comes with the territory and he needs to ignore it. In conclusion, I am more scared to lose Torrey than I want to re-sign him. I could see him going to New England and putting up big stats. I'm hoping a team like Oakland, Carolina, or Jacksonville pays him a lot of money to make losing him easier to swallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 In NE he would have to learn to run short routes better. Brady doesn't have the arm to go down the field anymore so he would not be able to get Torrey deep. I do see Oak as a real option. As long as the Ravens run the WCO I don't think Torrey can shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I'm so conflicted by Torrey. He's a very likable guy, a good representative of the team. My wife has a Torrey jersey, he and Tucker are really the only Ravens she knows/likes. However, the truth is what you state above. To add to what you said: while he has speed when have we ever seen a clean deep ball from Flacco to Torrey? It is always overthrown or Torrey has to come back for the ball. For whatever reason Torrey and Flacco are never the same page short or deep. There was an analysis I posted earlier in this topic that stated most of Flacco's INTs are when he throws to Torrey. Another thing on Torrey, and maybe my observation isn't justified, but I just don't see the right type of competitiveness. I don't see good run blocking. This season he looked lackadaisical too often. The body language was telling. He also lets opponents get under his skin too easily, we saw this in the Pats game with the two penalties. We see this in Torrey's Twitter feed. He cannot leave the troll tweets alone, he has to respond to everyone single one. I understand it must be tough to be in his position, but it comes with the territory and he needs to ignore it. In conclusion, I am more scared to lose Torrey than I want to re-sign him. I could see him going to New England and putting up big stats. I'm hoping a team like Oakland, Carolina, or Jacksonville pays him a lot of money to make losing him easier to swallow. Well stated, he is a terrible blocker. Most of the long runs over the past few years have come when he is on the side lines. To have long runs you have to have good blocking receivers, sometimes even to get the edge outside and be able to turn it up field. Smith, yep,a great guy, a great team player. But he can't find the ball in the air, he doesn't have the timing down on his routes, even a simple 9 route. This is why often times the ball looks to be over thrown, under thrown, off target. The qb has to throw it early, to a spot down field. That spot is determined and practiced in camp, in practices, in preseason. Yet in real games, Smith routinely gets rerouted by db's, slowed up by them or just flat out runs past them when he is supposed to put a stutter move there. These stutters are not always just to get him some separation but they allow the play time to develop, no different than some crossing routes where the man coming across has to slow play it sometimes to allow the zone to clear out. Most pass plays are built on timing. This is the issue with RGIII with the Skins. His timing on his drops are off, making it appear the receivers can't get open, when in fact, if he took the proper drop, or used the proper timing on the drop, they are open. Here, yes, some of the throws are just off, hey, it happens with every quarterback. But many of them are right where they need to be, but the receiver, in this case, Smith, is not where he needs to be when he needs to be there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 How do you replace his 11 TD's?He's top Ten in that stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well stated, he is a terrible blocker. Most of the long runs over the past few years have come when he is on the side lines. To have long runs you have to have good blocking receivers, sometimes even to get the edge outside and be able to turn it up field. Smith, yep,a great guy, a great team player. But he can't find the ball in the air, he doesn't have the timing down on his routes, even a simple 9 route. This is why often times the ball looks to be over thrown, under thrown, off target. The qb has to throw it early, to a spot down field. That spot is determined and practiced in camp, in practices, in preseason. Yet in real games, Smith routinely gets rerouted by db's, slowed up by them or just flat out runs past them when he is supposed to put a stutter move there. These stutters are not always just to get him some separation but they allow the play time to develop, no different than some crossing routes where the man coming across has to slow play it sometimes to allow the zone to clear out. Most pass plays are built on timing. This is the issue with RGIII with the Skins. His timing on his drops are off, making it appear the receivers can't get open, when in fact, if he took the proper drop, or used the proper timing on the drop, they are open. Here, yes, some of the throws are just off, hey, it happens with every quarterback. But many of them are right where they need to be, but the receiver, in this case, Smith, is not where he needs to be when he needs to be there. Real good analysis. If they can get him for $5-7 million then keep him. If he wants more cut him loose. I'll miss the great guy that he is but any more money than that is just not warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 How do you replace his 11 TD's?He's top Ten in that stat. Big deal, so was Brown the year before, who had what, 8 or 10. Smith's are largely red zone touchdowns, pretty easy to replace from a receiver such as him, Now were his touchdowns from long range, then you would have a point. However, they are not and for the reasons I outlined above. If you want an average receiver with speed, there are plenty of them out there both in FA and draft, especially for much cheaper than the Ravens offered him last summer. He is barely worth that contract, I would argue it is too much, but he certainly is not worth more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Big deal, so was Brown the year before, who had what, 8 or 10. Smith's are largely red zone touchdowns, pretty easy to replace from a receiver such as him, Now were his touchdowns from long range, then you would have a point. However, they are not and for the reasons I outlined above. If you want an average receiver with speed, there are plenty of them out there both in FA and draft, especially for much cheaper than the Ravens offered him last summer. He is barely worth that contract, I would argue it is too much, but he certainly is not worth more....Agreed. Does being a good guy really matter? If you can't play then you aren't needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robjr83 Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Agreed. Does being a good guy really matter? If you can't play then you aren't needed. He's a solid #2 and he gets that money I'm fine with it, but guaranteed OAK or some other team will overpay. As far as being a good guy....I thought the same thing about Ray Rice. You're always one screw up away from being public enemy #1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 But even if he were a good guy it is about production. Agreed that some team will over pay to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The Yardbarker has it right on Torrey....it's about players who are set to get wildly over paid in free agaency... 4. Torrey Smith, Wide Receiver, Baltimore RavensConsidering the passing era we are witness to around the NFL today, the wide receiver position will quickly become one of the most overvalued in the league. When it comes to the speedier receivers who can take the top off defenses, this will only be more magnified.Smith may be averaging 17 yards per catch during his four-year career. He may have scored 11 touchdowns on 49 receptions last year. But one thing is mighty clear when it comes to this Maryland product. Simply put, he’s not a consistently good threat on the passing game. This past season saw Smith average just over three receptions per game and catch just 55 percent of the passes thrown in his direction. Even more incredible to look at, Smith dropped 12 percent of the passes thrown in his direction.Now imagine Smith going to a team that doesn’t possess a quarterback with an elite arm like Baltimore has with Joe Flacco. Taking into account his inability to produce on a weekly basis and high drop percentage, Smith’s production will see a deep decline. This won’t stop teams from lining up to sign Smith to a lucrative long-term deal should Baltimore let him hit the open market. I can easily see Smith signing a deal that rivals the five-year, $36.3 million contract Eric Decker signed with the New York Jets last season.http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/five-nfl-players-set-to-be-wildly-overpaid-in-free-agency/ar-AA9ahG2?ocid=iehp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yep . There's a sucker in every crowd and some team with cash to burn and a desire to snag a Raven, will make the move. The only question; what team ? A team like the cash heavy Browns wouldn't aurprise, especially after losing Gordon.Should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Yep . There's a sucker in every crowd and some team with cash to burn and a desire to snag a Raven, will make the move. The only question; what team ? A team like the cash heavy Browns wouldn't aurprise, especially after losing Gordon.Should be interesting. No players want to go to Leaveland. They have to way over pay to get somebody decent.You know how being heavily sedated lessons the pain of a medical procedure?The Brownies have to inject a ton of sedation money into most free agents so they can't feel the pain. Edited February 9, 2015 by vmax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yep . There's a sucker in every crowd and some team with cash to burn and a desire to snag a Raven, will make the move. The only question; what team ? A team like the cash heavy Browns wouldn't aurprise, especially after losing Gordon.Should be interesting.That is a pretty logical landing spot for him. No players want to go to Leaveland. They have to way over pay to get somebody decent.You know how being heavily sedated lessons the pain of a medical procedure?The Brownies have to inject a ton of sedation money into most free agents so they can't feel the pain. You do know the history of all the former Ravens who went there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 ...And were seldom heard from again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Agreed. But they got paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenMad Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 If Torrey wanted to be in Baltimore so bad he would have signed for $7m per season last year. That's what Decker got from NYJ ($7.2m per season) last year and he has put up much better stats than Torrey ever has. Torrey is gone and I just hope he gets stupid money from someone so that we pick up a higher compensatory pick in the 2016 draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robjr83 Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 I thought the same thing. When he rejected 7mil he's got his head in the stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 If Torrey wanted to be in Baltimore so bad he would have signed for $7m per season last year. That's what Decker got from NYJ ($7.2m per season) last year and he has put up much better stats than Torrey ever has. Torrey is gone and I just hope he gets stupid money from someone so that we pick up a higher compensatory pick in the 2016 draft.Good point on the comp pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 OK, I've come full circle.... After Mr Smith, T, ripped a part pinky on twitter, show him the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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