Ravens draft party canceled

[tsylvester]

In case you or you know anyone who goes or wanted to go to this "party" thursday....

[GrubberRaven]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the riots here...

[tsylvester]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the riots here...

 

 

I am sure they are getting too much of it else where. On a side, and lighter note, it was nice to see the media television, can go for hours without comercial breaks. Now, just do that during football games and we all will be happy....

[papasmurfbell]

I was surprised it hasn't been brought up. I was thinking people were just trying to block it out.

I think this whole O's series maybe cancelled or shipped out of town.

[oldno82]

Can't say it better than these guys did:

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-ravens-players-react-to-baltimore-riots-say-violence-is-not-the-answer-20150428-story.html

[tsylvester]

I was surprised it hasn't been brought up. I was thinking people were just trying to block it out.

 

I think this whole O's series maybe cancelled or shipped out of town.

 

 

two of the game have been post-poned until may 28th, double header. tomorrow's game is being layed at 1pm (?) and with no fans allowed. the tampa series has been moved to tampa.

[ForceEight]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the riots here...

I'm kind of relieved that it hadn't been mentioned at all. A little surprised, too.

 

Not complaining, though.

[papasmurfbell]

OK I am surprised all 6 cops were charged. That said I think a change of venue will be filed and approved. If they get say the Eastern Shore then they all walk.

[Tornado700]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the riots here...

What riots?

[tsylvester]

OK I am surprised all 6 cops were charged. That said I think a change of venue will be filed and approved. If they get say the Eastern Shore then they all walk.

 

 

Eh, there was more evidenc against the guy who raped & killed alicia Barnes and Mosley still couldn't get a conviction.

 

This one, she threw the book at the officers to cover her bases. I am not sure they can prove the officers were to blame for his death. Maybe, depraved indifference, but the larger charges, I highly doubt it. What truly happened, sadly, will likely never be known.

[cravnravn]

Eh, there was more evidenc against the guy who raped & killed alicia Barnes and Mosley still couldn't get a conviction.

 

This one, she threw the book at the officers to cover her bases. I am not sure they can prove the officers were to blame for his death. Maybe, depraved indifference, but the larger charges, I highly doubt it. What truly happened, sadly, will likely never be known.

 

Oh yes we will, one of those 6 will turn states evidence, I witnessed it first hand on a gambling bust, there was a high ranking fire official that at got caught up in the ring, and when the FEDs starting threatening his pension and jail time, he rolled over.

 

I believe one of those 6 will roll over.

[papasmurfbell]

 

 

Eh, there was more evidenc against the guy who raped & killed alicia Barnes and Mosley still couldn't get a conviction.

 

This one, she threw the book at the officers to cover her bases. I am not sure they can prove the officers were to blame for his death. Maybe, depraved indifference, but the larger charges, I highly doubt it. What truly happened, sadly, will likely never be known.

They overcharged them. The driver is liable for manslaughter. The arresting officers for misconduct and false imprisonment.

 

 

Oh yes we will, one of those 6 will turn states evidence, I witnessed it first hand on a gambling bust, there was a high ranking fire official that at got caught up in the ring, and when the FEDs starting threatening his pension and jail time, he rolled over.

 

I believe one of those 6 will roll over.

This isn't a fed case. Fed cases are better because teh resources and the jury pool is conducive to conviction. If this gets moved to a rural county they all walk. If they move it and it goes to PG county these cops are in trouble.

[Tornado700]

Political expediency and posturing. Postponing the inevitable- more rioting ahead and coming to a city near you.

[cravnravn]

They overcharged them. The driver is liable for manslaughter. The arresting officers for misconduct and false imprisonment.

 

 

 

This isn't a fed case. Fed cases are better because teh resources and the jury pool is conducive to conviction. If this gets moved to a rural county they all walk. If they move it and it goes to PG county these cops are in trouble.

I understand its not a Fed case, my money says the chick rolls over.

 

And honestly, they could move thks case anywhere they want, Baltimore received national coverage for this, there going to have trouble finding jurors that didn't bear about this case.

Edited May 3, 2015 by cravnravn

[tsylvester]

I wouldn't move the case, nor would I trust a jury, let a judge hear the case, better chance of getting off. I just don't see the evidence, not that we have seen all the evidence, of the more serious crimes. They have no idea how the injury ocurred.

 

For all we know, he slipped while running away and cracked his neck on a cement wall before being arrested. False imprisonment? really? Are they going to charge every officer from now on when a person is arrested, then released without charges?

 

There is no doubt some officer abuse prisoners, of all color, but more predominantly, african american. But to use these officers as the scape goat is just plain wrong.

 

No signs of a beating, no signs his body hit the sides of the van, none. The more I hear on this case, the more I see Mobley not getting a conviction and these riots pick up again as she cleans out her officer for yet another loss in a big case.

[dc.]

I think they can get at least two on involuntary manslaughter, maybe three.

 

They won't get a change of venue.

 

They do know how the injury occurred, Max: he was put face down on the floor of the van for 45 minutes, handcuffed and shackled. They stopped the van 4 times to check his condition. He requested medical assistance multiple times - prompting the stops and during the stops - until during the last stop (and perhaps one prior) he was completely non-responsive. They have this in police officer statements and on video. At no point after the first stop did they even attempt to get in the van to check on him. At the last stop, the sergeant charged was advised he had been complaining and seeking medical attention, she spoke to the back of his head, they didn't touch him or attempt to render aid when he was unresponsive and likely not breathing. They drove away again.

 

I see involuntary manslaughter all over that. There is a legitimate amount of negligence in those actions, gross negligence, that led directly to his injuries and death. Involuntary manslaughter is the same charge you could get for texting and driving. If you are responsible for the health, safety, well-being of an individual... placing them in shackles, face down in a van and driving around for 45 minutes and ignoring their pleas is 100% gross negligence.

 

Many of the other charges - from assault to even false imprisonment I don't see sticking. The Supreme Court even ruled this year that an officer who makes a "reasonable mistake" about what the law is in making a stop or arrest is not violating the law himself. Misconduct in office is probably a 100% for all of them though for not responding to pleas for medical attention.

[papasmurfbell]

I understand its not a Fed case, my money says the chick rolls over.

 

And honestly, they could move thks case anywhere they want, Baltimore received national coverage for this, there going to have trouble finding jurors that didn't bear about this case.

That is why I expect them to ask for and get the change of venue.

 

 

I wouldn't move the case, nor would I trust a jury, let a judge hear the case, better chance of getting off. I just don't see the evidence, not that we have seen all the evidence, of the more serious crimes. They have no idea how the injury ocurred.

 

For all we know, he slipped while running away and cracked his neck on a cement wall before being arrested. False imprisonment? really? Are they going to charge every officer from now on when a person is arrested, then released without charges?

 

There is no doubt some officer abuse prisoners, of all color, but more predominantly, african american. But to use these officers as the scape goat is just plain wrong.

 

No signs of a beating, no signs his body hit the sides of the van, none. The more I hear on this case, the more I see Mobley not getting a conviction and these riots pick up again as she cleans out her officer for yet another loss in a big case.

How do you hit the back of your neck while running forward? Not getting medical at the scene will still be negligent.

[dc.]

Two addendums:

 

First, the sequence of events I posted there is the one outlined by Mosby. I am not asserting it as fact, but as what we are told. If that sequence can be proven with any certainty, it fits the bill for the crimes.

 

Second, the depraved heart second degree murder could stick. I think it won't, but it could. The definition here: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-overview.html... " a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life" This goes beyond the involuntary "negligence" to say that there was some conduct that was probably known to cause harm and just didn't care. The driver got this because of his multiple stops and checks, without changing his behavior. I don't think this will stick, but it could under a strict reading.

[dc.]

Re: Change of venue - heard many so far say it won't happen because social media, etc is making that a less and less acceptable choice. Everyone hears everything. There is no rule or right that says people can't have heard of the crime or even have heard a lot about it any perhaps have "preconceived notions" about it. You simply have to be able to reasonably put those notions aside to hear the case. Judges are more and more saying, 1. that you can find the right mix of people who can put those notions aside anywhere and 2. given social media, finding anything beyond that is no more likely in another venue.

[papasmurfbell]

Two addendums:

 

First, the sequence of events I posted there is the one outlined by Mosby. I am not asserting it as fact, but as what we are told. If that sequence can be proven with any certainty, it fits the bill for the crimes.

 

Second, the depraved heart second degree murder could stick. I think it won't, but it could. The definition here: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/second-degree-murder-overview.html... " a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life" This goes beyond the involuntary "negligence" to say that there was some conduct that was probably known to cause harm and just didn't care. The driver got this because of his multiple stops and checks, without changing his behavior. I don't think this will stick, but it could under a strict reading.

iexpect him if convicted to see 2nd degree manslaughter.

 

 

Re: Change of venue - heard many so far say it won't happen because social media, etc is making that a less and less acceptable choice. Everyone hears everything. There is no rule or right that says people can't have heard of the crime or even have heard a lot about it any perhaps have "preconceived notions" about it. You simply have to be able to reasonably put those notions aside to hear the case. Judges are more and more saying, 1. that you can find the right mix of people who can put those notions aside anywhere and 2. given social media, finding anything beyond that is no more likely in another venue.

I am thinking the riot sends it over the edge there. Had there only been a protest you could very well be right. Also consider all the stuff Batts said during the investigation. He pretty well said they were guilty. His comments could be brought up in a hearing.

[dc.]

But Batts comments go towards a flawed investigation, not a flawed jury pool.

 

It could happen, but the question becomes where do you find a pool that can be impartial? In a major city, it's hard to make the case that you can't find 12-20 people who aren't able to disinterest themselves enough to be fair.

[dc.]

Tim -

 

Two added thoughts:

 

1. Maybe false imprisonment stems from a faulty stop followed by a faulty arrest, not just the faulty arrest. It would be one thing to accidentally stop, but nit arrest... Or stop justly, and then start in error. But to do both? I still age it's not going to work.

 

2. What other make car has Mosby lost? She's only been in office four months. Bernstein, her predecessor, lost a few big ones. I still like him. I have a friend in the office who liked Bernstein a lot and believed fine if those losses were systemic flaws, including a poorly trained police force

[papasmurfbell]

But Batts comments go towards a flawed investigation, not a flawed jury pool.

 

It could happen, but the question becomes where do you find a pool that can be impartial? In a major city, it's hard to make the case that you can't find 12-20 people who aren't able to disinterest themselves enough to be fair.

Batts kept saying how they violated dept policy at each step. It could be considered tainting to pool.

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/Freddie-Gray-Alan-Dershowitz-police-charges/2015/05/01/id/642143/
Dershowitz sees a venue change.

[dc.]

I won't click on a link from NewsMax, but I guess I'll take your word.

 

How is Batts any more powerful in swaying opinion than the local and national media? How are people in Baltimore any more tainted by his words than the millions viewing them online?

 

Again, the question is can you find people who can choose to be impartial... not can you find someone uninformed, who hasn't followed or simply doesn't know... I also think any respectable judge would be very hesitant to move a case about a municipal agency out of the municipality. "This is about the governance of Baltimore... but Baltimore isn't allowed to be the purveyor of justice."