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#1 vmax

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 07:08 PM

Sounds like heresey from a Ray Lewis fan....I have guilt/shame all over me for saying this about a "once in several decades" player.

I want Ray to get his final contract here, but only after Jason Brown and Suggs are locked up. We are in the business side of football and with that...hard choices.

Here's a hard choice...of the 3 who do you franchise?

The game is won in the trenches and Suggs and Brown are young guys and very solid players with a lot of football ahead of them.
The O line is starting to come together and Jason's loss would hurt.


Fromcbssportsline...
QUOTE
Jason Brown, C, Baltimore
Brown is young (25) and the centerpiece of an improved offensive line. Losing him would be a blow to young quarterback Joe Flacco, which means the Ravens should put on the full-court press to keep him. But it won't be easy.

What's to like: A mauler. Handled Haynesworth in two meetings this season.

What's not: Not great in pass protection.

Prediction: Ravens try to retain him but can't.
http://www.cbssports.../story/11344964




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“[Lamar] was amazing last year, and then they add in Mark Ingram,” Burleson said. “We forget how strong and angry of a runner he is. … [The Ravens] are just getting started. I think people assume that Lamar Jackson isn’t going to pass the ball this year, and I will tell you right now you are wrong. He’s going to light up the skies and torch the ground like he did last year.”

“Put on 20 pounds of muscle over the offseason,” Hurst said. “I’m kind of on a mission this year. I’ve got a lot to prove.”


#2 thundercleetz

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 07:22 PM

Completely agree. Suggs and Brown first, then Ray. Brown IS one of those players you can break the bank for. In my opinion, he is clearly among the best at his position.
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#3 Guest_BallTMore_*

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:25 PM

Jason Brown is a MUST sign. A must. I agree with Suggs too. He is heading into the prime of his career. He is a complete defensive football player.


I can't imagine Ray in another uniform, though. The thought just makes me sick. I have a feeling he'll be back, though.
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#4 ravinmaniac52

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 09:47 PM

Sign Brown let the 3 LBs walk.

Play the 4-3. Sign Peppers let the young LBs play.
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#5 dc.

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 12:28 AM

If you're going to sign Peppers... why not sign Suggs or Ray??? Peppers will cost just as much, if not more. I'd rather Suggs than Peppers in some ways. It's a toss-up, I'd take either. But it still doesn't fill the hole in the middle of our LB corps.
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#6 cravnravn

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 05:33 AM

Sign Ray & Suggs. place the Tag on Brown..Piece of cake.
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#7 vmax

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:12 AM

Interesting...from my good friend Don Banks...smile.gif

QUOTE
. Which playoff team will have to spend handsomely to keep its winning formula intact?

Nobody figures to spend more to keep its own free agents from going elsewhere than the Baltimore Ravens, a surprise final four participant in 2008. The Ravens arguably have three of the top six potential defensive free agents in linebackers Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and Bart Scott. Don't laugh, but they might just have the financial wherewithal to keep all three at home. And don't forget starting center Jason Brown, a fourth-year veteran whom Baltimore also intends to keep on hand.

The Ravens currently rank right in the middle of the NFL in cap room, with about $19 million to spare under the projected $123 million pay ceiling. But they can push that figure considerably higher -- maybe into the $36 million range -- just by handing out expected pink slips to veteran cornerbacks Chris McAlister and Samari Rolle. Look for the Ravens to be very pro-active in the three weeks before free agency begins, trying to get as many of their top four re-signed before the market opens Feb. 27.

As for that rumored straight-up Terrell Suggs to Arizona for Anquan Boldin trade? Forget it. Does that sound like commensurate value in Ozzie Newsome's world view? A pass-rushing linebacker/defensive end for a veteran receiver? Think again.
http://sportsillustr...ions/index.html



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“[Lamar] was amazing last year, and then they add in Mark Ingram,” Burleson said. “We forget how strong and angry of a runner he is. … [The Ravens] are just getting started. I think people assume that Lamar Jackson isn’t going to pass the ball this year, and I will tell you right now you are wrong. He’s going to light up the skies and torch the ground like he did last year.”

“Put on 20 pounds of muscle over the offseason,” Hurst said. “I’m kind of on a mission this year. I’ve got a lot to prove.”


#8 cravnravn

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:21 AM

Wouldnt that be sweet, then all of a sudden that little window of opportunity that gets smaller and smaller each year suddenly looks as open as wide open as Lucas Oil Stadium for us.
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#9 ravinmaniac52

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 02:55 PM

QUOTE (dc. @ Feb 7 2009, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you're going to sign Peppers... why not sign Suggs or Ray??? Peppers will cost just as much, if not more. I'd rather Suggs than Peppers in some ways. It's a toss-up, I'd take either. But it still doesn't fill the hole in the middle of our LB corps.

This team is full of LBs that can play in the middle, that is why they drafted Gooden.
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#10 thundercleetz

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (ravinmaniac52 @ Feb 7 2009, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This team is full of LBs that can play in the middle, that is why they drafted Gooden.


That does not make much sense signing Peppers and letting our three LBs walk. First, Peppers is going to command just as much money, if not more, than Suggs. Why not just re-sign Suggs? Second, Barnes and McClain are 3-4 OLBs, they are not 4-3 OLBs and would be too small to play as 4-3 DEs. Switching full time to a 4-3 completely devalues their talents.

The plan should be to franchise Suggs, then re-sign Brown and Ray. While Suggs is franchised we can either sign him long term or trade him in a Jared Allen-type deal (Allen got a first and two thirds). There is plenty of corner depth out on the market, I am sure we will be looking at guys there (Bryant McFadden? I wish, but he is probably going to be too expensive). Nevertheless, I am positive we are going to shore up the secondary through free agency with Fabian Washington-type acquisitions. We should then also take a look at TJ Houshmandzadeh and Antonio Bryant, but those guys will probably be priced out of our range as well. Keeping Ray, Suggs, and Brown in any way and order possible should be a top priority.
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#11 ravinmaniac52

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 04:37 PM

Peter Boulware
Height: 6-4 Weight: 250

McClain 6-1 250


Jamie Sharper
Height: 6-2 Weight: 239

Barnes 6-1 245
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#12 thundercleetz

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (ravinmaniac52 @ Feb 7 2009, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Peter Boulware
Height: 6-4 Weight: 250

McClain 6-1 250


Jamie Sharper
Height: 6-2 Weight: 239

Barnes 6-1 245


Completely different styles of play between Sharper and McClain/Barnes. The comparison is not even valid. As for Boulware, he was much more of a complete player than McClain and Barnes. Boulware played both a 4-3 OLB and a 4-3 DE, I believe he is one of the only players to have this type of ability. There was a reason he was a top five draft pick. His combination of size, athleticism, and intelligence allowed him to do that. Barnes and McClain do not have the linebacker skills that Boulware had, that is why these guys were late rounders/UDFA. Barnes and McClain are undersized defensive ends playing a 3-4 OLB, their skill sets are not those of a traditional LB. Their roles up until this point have been those of a defensive end: containment, rushing the passer, and backside pursuit, maybe a little dropping in the flats. They have not been asked to read and react like 4-3 backers and 3-4 ILBs have to do.

Nevertheless, the point remains, why sign Peppers when we can just re-sign Suggs and save our defense a lot of trouble of not having to learn a new defense? What you are proposing just makes no sense once soever unless we were backed into that situation by force. In which case, Peppers would probably play a 3-4 OLB, something he has expressed desire in doing.
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#13 vmax

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:13 PM

Three thoughts and a question...

1. Will Tavaris Gooden translate into a soild NFL LB?
The jury is out...hell, he couldn't even make it through camp.

2. I doubt the Ravens will go for the big name Free Agent this year. They will sign their own big name players if they can. No Bouldin, no Peppers, no Dunta Robinson....

3. They can not afford to carry the high CAP hit these players will cost into the future. Not if they want to keep Ngata, Gaither,... even Flacco is due in two years I think...didn't he sign only a 3 year deal?

Are we going young or old?


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“[Lamar] was amazing last year, and then they add in Mark Ingram,” Burleson said. “We forget how strong and angry of a runner he is. … [The Ravens] are just getting started. I think people assume that Lamar Jackson isn’t going to pass the ball this year, and I will tell you right now you are wrong. He’s going to light up the skies and torch the ground like he did last year.”

“Put on 20 pounds of muscle over the offseason,” Hurst said. “I’m kind of on a mission this year. I’ve got a lot to prove.”


#14 thundercleetz

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 07:12 PM

QUOTE (vmax @ Feb 7 2009, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Three thoughts and a question...

1. Will Tavaris Gooden translate into a soild NFL LB?
The jury is out...hell, he couldn't even make it through camp.

2. I doubt the Ravens will go for the big name Free Agent this year. They will sign their own big name players if they can. No Bouldin, no Peppers, no Dunta Robinson....

3. They can not afford to carry the high CAP hit these players will cost into the future. Not if they want to keep Ngata, Gaither,... even Flacco is due in two years I think...didn't he sign only a 3 year deal?

Are we going young or old?


2010 uncapped year cool.gif

Flacco signed a 5-year, $30 million deal, he is locked up for awhile (I think 5-years is the minimum for a first rounder). You are right though, Ngata and Gaither will be due soon.

I agree with your second point as well, the big name free agents we will be signing are our own. Suggs (who I think will be franchised), Brown, and Ray should be the guys. As for Gooden, he got hurt in the Indy game. The coaches have liked what they have seen from him. Gooden was a relatively high draft pick as a third rounder, the team must have starting expectations of some sort. He will certainly get a chance to start alongside Ray/Scott (I am heavily assuming that we will re-sign one of these guys), as will Greisen, Burgess, and any other draft pick.

Going young or old? How about this scenario: We franchise Suggs (26) and re-sign Brown (25). Ray (33) gets that big deal and bolts, in which we then re-sign Bart Scott (28) for less money. Cmac (31) and Rolle (32) could be on their way out in order to shed cap space. Thus, while big guys like Nnamdi Asomugha and Dunta Robinson are probably out of the question, how about a mid-range guy like Kelvin Hayden (25) or Bryant McFadden (27)? Then we can add further corner depth with one of Eric Green (26), Vincent Fuller (26), Leigh Bodden (27), Tramon Williams (25), or Jabari Greer (26).

Whether we re-sign Ray or Scott, I still believe we will be going young. Suggs and Brown are entering their prime years and should be retained no matter what. Do not be surprised to see older guys like Cmac and Rolle cut in order to free up space. There is plenty of young, talented corner depth on the market. We should be able to fill that hole through free agency leaving us with plenty of options for the draft. In the draft, it would not surprise me to see us go WR/TE in rounds one and two. WR is the glaring need on this team that will probably have to be addressed through the draft as TJ Houshmandzadeh (who I would love for us to sign) and Antonio Bryant will probably be priced out of our range.
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#15 geo

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 03:45 AM

We will probably have a hard time signing all of them, and just like it was time to say goodbye to BB and JO last year, I think it migth be the rigth time for Ray now. I know Ray had been the keystone and his last three seasons has been a step forward! Signing Ray for one year or two, nice.. Not happening, signing him for more than that? He just played all games, how many more seasons is that going to happend? Unlikely but Farewell and thanks!

In that case and if we cut C-mac whom I love so much, we should retain Scott, Suggs and JB.

1. In that case resigning Bart Scott is much more important. I know he has not delivered big time stats, but he has been very reliable, he is a leader, he has proved he can deliver when Ray has been out, and except for the pats game last year, he has been very disciplined for a long period. Actually there was some episodes this year, where he calmed down teammates. Btw without Ray and Bart, who should be our ILBs? Nick Greisen as the leader with experience.. not bad but Scott is just better. And a rookie, Gooden, McClain, Burgess or JJ.. I am not sure I like any of those as our starting ILBs next season and it would be hurting us a lot, there is a reason why Steelers and Ravens is the elite, we are not foolish and we are not skipping two starters, one is enough. Resign Bart!

2. Terrell Suggs was asked to deliver this season, and he did. Resign!

3. JB was arguably our best player in 2007, our OL is progressing and letting him go now, would be a setback. Resign!

Btw in Ozzie we trust, and probably with some surprises, just like that F. Washington pick.
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#16 ravinmaniac52

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:04 AM

QUOTE (thundercleetz @ Feb 7 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Completely different styles of play between Sharper and McClain/Barnes. The comparison is not even valid. As for Boulware, he was much more of a complete player than McClain and Barnes. Boulware played both a 4-3 OLB and a 4-3 DE, I believe he is one of the only players to have this type of ability. There was a reason he was a top five draft pick. His combination of size, athleticism, and intelligence allowed him to do that. Barnes and McClain do not have the linebacker skills that Boulware had, that is why these guys were late rounders/UDFA. Barnes and McClain are undersized defensive ends playing a 3-4 OLB, their skill sets are not those of a traditional LB. Their roles up until this point have been those of a defensive end: containment, rushing the passer, and backside pursuit, maybe a little dropping in the flats. They have not been asked to read and react like 4-3 backers and 3-4 ILBs have to do.

Nevertheless, the point remains, why sign Peppers when we can just re-sign Suggs and save our defense a lot of trouble of not having to learn a new defense? What you are proposing just makes no sense once soever unless we were backed into that situation by force. In which case, Peppers would probably play a 3-4 OLB, something he has expressed desire in doing.

Sorry TC, the comparison was of their size not their play.

Can't seen putting to many players against Peter, he was a very good player, most times his play is over-looked due to Ray being on the field. Jamie was a good player but he wasn't a Ray or a Peter, Jamie was even benched a few times for Brown.

I like both McClain and Barnes at OLB in a 4-3. I would put McClain on the right side with his size and quickness, he can find the ball. Put Barnes on the other side behind Pryce to go after the QB, he has the speed, and with his size would hurt some people.
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#17 ravinmaniac52

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:19 AM

QUOTE (vmax @ Feb 7 2009, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Three thoughts and a question...

1. Will Tavaris Gooden translate into a soild NFL LB?
The jury is out...hell, he couldn't even make it through camp.

2. I doubt the Ravens will go for the big name Free Agent this year. They will sign their own big name players if they can. No Bouldin, no Peppers, no Dunta Robinson....

3. They can not afford to carry the high CAP hit these players will cost into the future. Not if they want to keep Ngata, Gaither,... even Flacco is due in two years I think...didn't he sign only a 3 year deal?

Are we going young or old?


I don't think Gooden was hurt that bad. It was more of make room for another player. He was inactive week 1 but got game time through week 5.

I jsut can't see them sighing all their FAs. If you want to sign the other guys like Ngata and Gaither you can't keep the other guys. Something has to give.
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#18 5to85for6

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 12:17 PM

I think with all the high profile FA weve overlooked the fact that Koch is also a UFA. The kid played great and i think he is also a key player for us to sign. thoughts?
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#19 geo

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 03:27 PM

QUOTE (5to85for6 @ Feb 12 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think with all the high profile FA weve overlooked the fact that Koch is also a UFA. The kid played great and i think he is also a key player for us to sign. thoughts?


Wrong he is RFA, but you are rigth it would be nice if we gave him a long termed deal just like with Katula last year.
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#20 vmax

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 08:41 PM

Here's more speculation on the Ravens off season plan...

QUOTE
Primary issue: Baltimore has arguably the most high-profile list of in-house free agents in the NFL this offseason. Therefore, the biggest issue for the Ravens is keeping their own players.

Center Jason Brown and linebackers Ray Lewis, Bart Scott and Terrell Suggs lead an impressive group set to hit the open market at the end of the month. Other key players include safety Jim Leonhard, punter Sam Koch and restricted free-agent safety Dawan Landry.
Secondary concern: After retaining their own free agents, the Ravens' next concern is getting better at receiver and cornerback. The team lacks depth at both positions.
http://myespn.go.com...-AFC-North.html


I still feel Suggs and Brown are #1 & 2 on the need list....of course I want Ray, Bart, Koch, and Leonard also...smile.gif

I heard Rod Woodson in his interview with Suggs keep saying the Ravens will tag him (on NFL.com)....that is a very real senario.
The rumor on Ray is that he wants a $20 mil signing bonus...the Ravens are offering $15-17.
It looks like the Ravens will part ways with CMac saving $8 mil. It's tight, but the funds are there to keep most of these players (but not all).
I don't see a ton of CAP space getting tied up with Leonard, Koch and Landry.

Any and all of these guys may hit the market to find their value and Brown is the one I worry about as far as getting offered crazy money for his position. We've seen it happen before with Pashos and Weaver. Ozzie needs to put the squeeze on Jason...offer him a great "One Time/TODAY" contract with it being withdrawn if Brown goes to market.

Money has to be ear marked for the draft picks...yea....it's tight.

"Who knows if I'll be back..."


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“[Lamar] was amazing last year, and then they add in Mark Ingram,” Burleson said. “We forget how strong and angry of a runner he is. … [The Ravens] are just getting started. I think people assume that Lamar Jackson isn’t going to pass the ball this year, and I will tell you right now you are wrong. He’s going to light up the skies and torch the ground like he did last year.”

“Put on 20 pounds of muscle over the offseason,” Hurst said. “I’m kind of on a mission this year. I’ve got a lot to prove.”





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