Who is the dumbest football player ?

[Oldschool739]

I know you're thinking VY, but no.........

VY got a 6 on the Wonderlic test first time and improved to a whopping 11 with a second try.

But there is someone dumber than him, "Who is it" ?

[thundercleetz]

Didn't Marcus Vick get a 2?

[Spen]

Oh player. I thought it said poster at first. Player I don't know.

[Oldschool739]

Didn't Marcus Vick get a 2?

No he actually got an 11.....Woohoo , lol

[Oldschool739]

Oh player. I thought it said poster at first. Player I don't know.

I see the pizza delivery guy dropped your girl at the beach today..

 

[Spen]

Wow, you knew I meant you. I didn't see that coming.

 

Mods, prepare for whiney complaints about me to be sent to you. Sorry, someone must have told him I was probably making fun of him.

 

Ooh! I wonder if I will get any fight invitations!

[oldcrow]

hey Bozo, when school lets out , meet me at the smoking section and it's on

 

HONK HONK

 

nothing gets passed me so don't try to sneak on your bus

 

raisin proud!!!!

[Oldschool739]

Wow, you knew I meant you. I didn't see that coming.

 

Mods, prepare for whiney complaints about me to be sent to you. Sorry, someone must have told him I was probably making fun of him.

 

Ooh! I wonder if I will get any fight invitations!

For what ?.....Showing that you have no life and nothing ever substantial to say.....Just keep hiding behind your PC little man and noone will ever know that you are really 14 yrs old, 98lbs with arms the size of broom sticks, and a major coward.....

I think I hear Fat Albert calling you, Weird Harold.....Go on now, you PC badman....snicker !!!!

[oldcrow]

WHY

is this thread posted in the Ravens forum?

 

seems stupid to me

[Oldschool739]

 

hey Bozo, when school lets out , meet me at the smoking section and it's on

 

HONK HONK

 

nothing gets passed me so don't try to sneak on your bus

 

raisin proud!!!!

What are we looking for ? Your husband or your truck seat ?????

[Oldschool739]

The answer is Darren Davis with a whopping 4.

 

And the highest score was Pat Mcinally with a perfect 50.

 

link 5 best, 5 worst...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1130834-nfl-draft-2012-the-5-best-and-the-5-worst-wonderlic-scores-in-nfl-history/page/3

[oldcrow]

Sweeeeeeeet

that thing got a hemi

[dc.]

Kind of a joke of a question and answer.. Davis never played for any NFL team. Was he even on a practice squad?

 

As a second complaint, the Wonderlic is a joke in itself. Its absurdly stupid has little to do with intelligence and Even less to do with football ability. As has been widely noted recently... According to the test, Peyton is an average qb at best and his brother Eli is one of the smartest/best.

[oldcrow]

You just CAN'T put logic into it

its illogical

 

lets get back to those drumsticks

[Oldschool739]

Kind of a joke of a question and answer.. Davis never played for any NFL team. Was he even on a practice squad?

 

As a second complaint, the Wonderlic is a joke in itself. Its absurdly stupid has little to do with intelligence and Even less to do with football ability. As has been widely noted recently... According to the test, Peyton is an average qb at best and his brother Eli is one of the smartest/best.

The average wonderlic score for football player's is deemed to be 20......PM got a 28 which is above average, Eli got a 39 , and he is way smarter than PM, he's got 2 Lombardi's with 1 team and that is already out of reach for Peyton.....No the score is not a definite analysis of a player's physical capability, but a QB has to be very smart to play that position where as a RB just needs some brawn and instincts....The scouts pay attention to every bit of info they can get to evaluate a player for the NFL....

[dc.]

Peyton is widely discussed as one of the smartest QBs to have played - easily better than his brother at reading a D, making adjustments, etc. Are you really arguing that Eli is the better mind at QB?

 

I know what the Wonderlic is. I also know it's a joke.

 

Scouts are largely a joke too. Just look at first round picks to know.

[Oldschool739]

Peyton is widely discussed as one of the smartest QBs to have played - easily better than his brother at reading a D, making adjustments, etc. Are you really arguing that Eli is the better mind at QB?

 

I know what the Wonderlic is. I also know it's a joke.

 

Scouts are largely a joke too. Just look at first round picks to know.

Do you honestly believe that owners hire and pay scouts a handsome amount of money because they are a joke and don't succeed more than fail at their job ?......And the wonderlic is an absolute part of their evaluation of every football player coming out of college....If you have a beast like AP, then who cares if he can write his name or not, you know he's gonna play the game well, it doesn't account for as much in a case like that, but when they are so dumb that they go out and get arrested for shooting themselves in the leg in a public setting, it matters very much....

I understand your opinion of it ,just as mine for the HOF and Pro Bowl, but that doesn't take away the effectiveness of the process....It does matter to the ones involved.

[dc.]

I do honesty believe that people pay tons of money for things that are worthless. In real life and in the NFL.

 

It is the epitome of "the good old boys club" ... It is no different than hiring coach after coach who has failed because they have the name or the friend or worked for the right guy.

 

Is there a need for "scouting" and looking at talent and evaluating? Certainly. But there's also plenty of crap in the process, plenty of made up games and stats... Most scouts are professional cliche reporters. Hence the reputation of Peyton as a genius QB despite his Wonderlic.

 

Either the scouts are wrong or the Wonderlic is... Or both.

 

Do I want to know how bright a guy is? Yes. Does the Wonderlic help? Probably not more than talking to a guy.

[Oldschool739]

I do honesty believe that people pay tons of money for things that are worthless. In real life and in the NFL.

 

It is the epitome of "the good old boys club" ... It is no different than hiring coach after coach who has failed because they have the name or the friend or worked for the right guy.

 

Is there a need for "scouting" and looking at talent and evaluating? Certainly. But there's also plenty of crap in the process, plenty of made up games and stats... Most scouts are professional cliche reporters. Hence the reputation of Peyton as a genius QB despite his Wonderlic.

 

Either the scouts are wrong or the Wonderlic is... Or both.

 

Do I want to know how bright a guy is? Yes. Does the Wonderlic help? Probably not more than talking to a guy.

How bad do you think teams would be if they had to pick these college kids without the info the scouts gather for them and searching for players that not only are talented and smart but that fit whatever scheme your football team runs ?

I don't think they discard any info they can gather, on and off the field......You've seen players look unstoppable in one game and then helpless against a different scheme D or O....They have to find the whole player, and that's all part of the process....

[dc.]

I think we know from human brain research that more info does not always make a decision better in fact it can frequently make it worse.

 

I think everyone knows who the top 50 guys are at any time - how much variety is there from ESPN to FOX on who gets picked in the first round? By order maybe a bit, but is it a unique 32 guys? Even a change of 10 players? No. In fact, I bet year to year the top 50 across all teams and networks varies by less than about 5 players. So how unique are your scouts and their perspective?

 

I think scouts pick busts as much as anyone because they buy their own hype as much as anyone. Go pick a draft in the last decade and let's look at the first two rounds and see who we still think is a legit top 64 ... I bet we get at least 20 per year that we label busts - about 33%. Every year. So why not just let ESPN tell us who counts because it's all circular crap.

 

I'm not discounting all scouting by any means but I am not buying random metrics made up by people whose job is to feed a system that feeds them. Scouting at large and its bullshit metrics are about as useful as your average color commentary announcer and his bullshit cliches. In fact they are legitimately the same because I am sure most scouts are has been who feed clichéd "runs downhill" crap to us all.

 

And the Wonderlic is the ultimate is stupid metrics.

 

Meanwhile, you still haven't found the worst Wonderlic by a guy who actually made it. Davis doesn't count.

[Oldschool739]

I think we know from human brain research that more info does not always make a decision better in fact it can frequently make it worse.

 

I think everyone knows who the top 50 guys are at any time - how much variety is there from ESPN to FOX on who gets picked in the first round? By order maybe a bit, but is it a unique 32 guys? Even a change of 10 players? No. In fact, I bet year to year the top 50 across all teams and networks varies by less than about 5 players. So how unique are your scouts and their perspective?

 

I think scouts pick busts as much as anyone because they buy their own hype as much as anyone. Go pick a draft in the last decade and let's look at the first two rounds and see who we still think is a legit top 64 ... I bet we get at least 20 per year that we label busts - about 33%. Every year. So why not just let ESPN tell us who counts because it's all circular crap.

 

I'm not discounting all scouting by any means but I am not buying random metrics made up by people whose job is to feed a system that feeds them. Scouting at large and its bullshit metrics are about as useful as your average color commentary announcer and his bullshit cliches. In fact they are legitimately the same because I am sure most scouts are has been who feed clichéd "runs downhill" crap to us all.

 

And the Wonderlic is the ultimate is stupid metrics.

 

Meanwhile, you still haven't found the worst Wonderlic by a guy who actually made it. Davis doesn't count.

I showed you facts, all you keep doing is stating your opinion which for sure is in the minority that scouting is stupid and needless and unsuccessful....Where do you think the news media gets their info from anyway ?

Where are these human brain research stats and failed scouting stats that you speak of at.....

If too much info is bad for the brain than why is it a master at storing all it can get, and why do you think some people are smarter in specific areas than others ? It's because of all the info they learned about it....And Davis does count, he was a RB in college and took the test, maybe they felt he was too stupid to draft as a result of it.....But you can use Morris Claiborne who also scored a 4 and was drafted by Dallas and has been pretty much a bust.....And why would you think a test on common sense would be stupid metrics as you say ?

Are you tippin the jug a little tonight ?

[dc.]

First, I never said all scouting was worthless or totally without value. Go re-read. But much of the "scouting" world is full of bull. Of course there is value in some places and some ideas, but not all ideas and not all scouting.

 

Second, as to our brains... no they are not designed to just handle everything. That's a totally false statement. Our brains are not masters at storing information. They are not masters at gathering information. They are not masters at processing information.

 

Evidence:

Why do you turn down the radio when you can't find an address? Your brain can't handle it; it needs to focus.

Why are eyewitnesses unreliable? Because our brains don't recall the things we are not focused on.

Why do older people have "senior moments?" Because they are overloaded with too much information to process?

Why do doctors ask for LESS information instead of more when treating ailments like heart attacks? Because more data is not good, especially if it is contradictory.

Why do we have to ban cell phone use while driving? Because our brains cannot actually multitask..

Why do students who cram tend to get worse grades? Because our brains are easily overwhelmed and worn out by lots of information.

Here's my favorite... showing that people become worse decision makers with more choices. Ever struggle to buy something, here's part of why. Our brains don't handle the info well.

 

 

Have you heard of confirmation bias? That's the reality of most scouting. If you focus on one player and one guy ... you see one thing and one thing only. And then it becomes an endless cycle of who that player is. It's an echo chamber of how good a guy is or how bad a guy is. An echo chamber of ignoring the one bad game or one bad throw and giving great weight to one good game or good throw. We see it every year with every player and the labels they are given - labels that maybe applied at one time but don't anymore necessarily. We see what we look for. Flacco is ________. What about the time he? Well that doesn't count... doesn't matter as much.

 

Third, pick any draft and we can go player by player and decide how good scouting is. But pick any year... we'll go from there.

 

And I continue to stand by... the Wonderlic is a joke as it is used by the NFL. Not all data is good data. Not all information is valid information. Not all information helps your cause. I am in a field (teaching) that is being bombarded by the idea that success and failure can be determined simply by plugging in numbers. That data should drive everything. I am a huge believer in data, but only good data. And most data is bad data. Relying on bad data will end up with bad results.

 

Very few people dare question the validity of "the good old boys" and the "good old ways"... but they should. It was the basis of Moneyball in MLB in many ways (which I have been trying to avoid). But so many stats and numbers that we hold tell us nothing about a larger picture. But how dare we even think against "the machine."

[Oldschool739]

First, I never said all scouting was worthless or totally without value. Go re-read. But much of the "scouting" world is full of bull. Of course there is value in some places and some ideas, but not all ideas and not all scouting.

 

Second, as to our brains... no they are not designed to just handle everything. That's a totally false statement. Our brains are not masters at storing information. They are not masters at gathering information. They are not masters at processing information.

 

Evidence:

Why do you turn down the radio when you can't find an address? Your brain can't handle it; it needs to focus.

Why are eyewitnesses unreliable? Because our brains don't recall the things we are not focused on.

Why do older people have "senior moments?" Because they are overloaded with too much information to process?

Why do doctors ask for LESS information instead of more when treating ailments like heart attacks? Because more data is not good, especially if it is contradictory.

Why do we have to ban cell phone use while driving? Because our brains cannot actually multitask..

Why do students who cram tend to get worse grades? Because our brains are easily overwhelmed and worn out by lots of information.

Here's my favorite... showing that people become worse decision makers with more choices. Ever struggle to buy something, here's part of why. Our brains don't handle the info well.

 

 

Have you heard of confirmation bias? That's the reality of most scouting. If you focus on one player and one guy ... you see one thing and one thing only. And then it becomes an endless cycle of who that player is. It's an echo chamber of how good a guy is or how bad a guy is. An echo chamber of ignoring the one bad game or one bad throw and giving great weight to one good game or good throw. We see it every year with every player and the labels they are given - labels that maybe applied at one time but don't anymore necessarily. We see what we look for. Flacco is ________. What about the time he? Well that doesn't count... doesn't matter as much.

 

Third, pick any draft and we can go player by player and decide how good scouting is. But pick any year... we'll go from there.

 

And I continue to stand by... the Wonderlic is a joke as it is used by the NFL. Not all data is good data. Not all information is valid information. Not all information helps your cause. I am in a field (teaching) that is being bombarded by the idea that success and failure can be determined simply by plugging in numbers. That data should drive everything. I am a huge believer in data, but only good data. And most data is bad data. Relying on bad data will end up with bad results.

 

Very few people dare question the validity of "the good old boys" and the "good old ways"... but they should. It was the basis of Moneyball in MLB in many ways (which I have been trying to avoid). But so many stats and numbers that we hold tell us nothing about a larger picture. But how dare we even think against "the machine."

First off, you did discount scouting as a joke as you called it.

Secondly, it is amazing that the opinions you post are from people who say too much info is a negative and that we are not equipped to handle it, etc, yet they flood the mind with useless and bias opinions that just contribute to junking it up......Listen, everyone has an opinion, that don't mean it is right, even on the internet.

But we are talking about the process of making an intelligent business decision that could cost millions of dollars down the drain if a bad one is made.....Gathering all the info you can get to help you is just plain common sense, and these very successful owner's and far more intelligent men than you or me, also have computers and programs to store and help process all that info.....Flacco's wondelic was 27, Brady's 33....Now who do honestly think is the smarter qb of those 2 ????

I'm a homer, but not that big of one.....

[GrubberRaven]

Dan Marino's was 15...

[Oldschool739]

Dan Marino's was 15...

And he never got a SB.....I'm not saying it dictates an absolute evaluation of a player but it does lend to the measure of how intelligent he is or isn't and that can drastically effect his play on the field....More for some positions than others....

Dan was a very good qb, and may not have tried very hard for the test, he was far from dumb, that's for sure, but no SB with all that talent makes you wonder.