Preacher

Vmax... Man, I just had lunch and did NOT need to see that pic! OutsideR, Yeah, I don't know why we don't move Essex there. I remember him playing that position against you all a couple years ago and he actually looked decent. I'm am not so sure about Scott. I think Flacco should try throwing it all over on us. Both our CB's are coming off injuries and haven't played a whole lot in preseason. I'd stretch them out and make them run up and down the field all quarter long. I know that's not really Raven's football. But it's definitely situational ball.

Can't believe we are already in another season. Anyway, just came by to say hi and see what you all thought about your Ravens right about now. Personally, I hate the first game of the season, because I have absolutely no idea what to expect. I don't know our weaknesses, strengths, etc. Then, to go against the challenging team for the AFCN title (let's face it, there are only two teams that are challenging for the title), just not comfortable. So, who is new that I should be watching for the Ravens--or who is looking to break out you think? For the Steelers in this game, keep an eye on the WR Brown. He's had a heck of a camp and preseason. Also, the O-line may just be greatly improved. Legurskey has now taken the RG position, Pouncey is at center again, and Willie Colon's at RT with Heath still at TE. That's a big improvement IMO over what we've put on the field over the last 3-4 years. Pouncey and Legurskey, when they started side by side last year for a few games, seemed to really anchor the middle of the line with Kemoeatu at LG. I am worried about LT however. I wonder if your DC will overload Jonathon Scott (LT) and try to work him over a bit. Our defense is our defense. We'll be unbelievable for 55 minutes and then let you all pass all over the place for the last 5 minutes and put up at least a touchdown. It'll be a fun game.

The actual rule is "Hands cannot be thrust forward above the frame to contact an opponent on the neck, face or head." Hines did thrust his hands forward. He contacted the shoulders, and then his hands rode up on Reed. If what you are saying is actually illegal, then James Harrison would be getting 10/15 yard penalty called against the RT or RG about every 3 to 4 plays. No, in the end, it was simply a veteran move by Ed R. Just like Cromartie's tugging on Wallace's jersey at the end of the last Jet's game-which should have given us a 1st and goal with about a minute or more to play. It is a calculated risk/reward assessment. Ed R. threw Ward down, and then Ward retaliated and was penalized. Nothing wrong with that. The person who does the first illegal (can't think of a better word) act usually is not seen in those scenarios-but he takes a risk that he too will be penalized, or that Ward does not act. But clearly, there were penalties to be assessed to both parties. Of course, I am surprised they didn't throw the flag on all four Ravens, and a few other Steelers just for the heck of it on that play, just to make sure their stats for "Flags thrown per game" didn't decrease at all. I wonder if any of them ever heard the phrase, "Let them play". As long as it doesn't take away, or give an unfair scoring chance, DONT THROW THE FLAG.

I understand what your saying, and to a certain degree, I agree with you. However, I also like the emotional aspect of the game. You not only have to control yourself physically (not overrunning your assignments) and mentally (not allowing previous mistakes to cloud future judgment), but also emotionally (not allowing someone else to key you up and set you off). For me, that is all part of the game. Of course, I used to be a hockey player. That kind of thing was 95 percent of the game for us. I do however, agree with the stupid offsetting penalties rule. You have pushing, shoving, throwing each other to the ground, and what does it amount to? A do-over. HUH?? Heck, I'd be all for suspending a player for 4 plays for things like that (yeah, a little more of my hockey background coming out).

Thing is, it was Ward he was taken down by Ed Reed. He put his right arm around the shoulder/head of Ward, used his right foot as a pivot foot, and tried to flip Ward over his leg onto the ground. Ward didn't flip, but they both did go to the ground. That is clearly a 15 yard penalty for unnecessary roughness. It was only after that flip that Ward put his hands in Reed's grill. Before that, Ward contacted the shoulders in the block, and his hands slid up under the helmet. However, that is not a penalty, nor should have led to one. Then, three Ravens piled on. I don't think anyone should have been ejected, I don't think Reed was dirty for doing that. I don't even blame the 3 other Ravens for stepping in. That kind of mentality is what makes both of our teams very good. I just blame the ref for not calling EITHER the original takedown, OR the 3 guys piling on Ward afterwards. However, as I said above, often times, it is the retaliation that is called, and that is what happened here. Ward's retaliation to the take down was called. Missed call by the Refs, veteran move by Reed. Sucker the other player into taking a penalty by retaliating.

That's not how it works though. Usually, you call both the original altercation, and the retaliation, or just the retaliation.

It doesn't matter whether he is pushing or pulling, the refs looking for the jersey being twisted, and then the body going with it. That is exactly what happened here. The jersey was twisted, and the right shoulder went with it. Had this play happened on the other side of the field, I doubt it would have been called. But because it happened right when the ball carrier was running around him, it creating a scoring opportunity, which is exactly why it was called, IMO. I was actually surprised the refs got that one right.

The problem however, is that he, and the entire offense, is exactly where the Steelers offense was in 2006. When you have been such a dominant run team for so long, as both our teams have been, the transition to throwing the ball, trusting the pass, allowing your line to transition to a pass offense, and letting your QB go through the growth curve is brutal. We are STILL dealing with it, as you can see by Ben's sacks. Personally, I think the Ravens would be foolish to even CONSIDER giving up on Flacco. He is a good talent that will deliver. I think the problem, is that he hasn't been surrounded by WR talent that is young, and can grow WITH HIM. As a result, this year Flacco had to learn how to play with veteran receivers from different systems that expected things done their way. Keep Cam, Keep Flacco, draft a young WR or two, let them grow, begin to retool the D (couple three years will see the retirement of Ed and Ray probably), and prepare for a number of years of Flacco/Ben battles that will probably turn in your favor a lot more than I would like.

Shame I didn't see this earlier... I really think that isn't the question, even in hindsight. When teams like this get together, you can throw out everything else. The Steelers can be 0-15, and when they play the Ravens, it will be a grudge match with our O looking like a playoff caliber offense. Same with the Ravens. There is just something that happens when you play your rivals... the hate brings the game to a whole different level. Both QB's showed that they were ready. Both offenses were ready. They both put up more points against the other defense than in the previous two or three games combined. Even on a short field, the Ravens, on offense, put the ball in the endzone twice on us, once by running. That is practically unheard of against our defense. Our offense put the ball in the endzone 4 times. Against the RAVENS?!? Again, I'd never have thought it possible. No, in these games, you simply ARE ready, regardless of how you have been playing.

Sadly, I think that game was officiated... about average. There were definite calls missed on both sides. As stated, Kemo probably should have been called the first time. Ike should have been called for the headbutt. I think there were a couple PI calls that we should have been called on as well. Harrison, as usual, could file charges against half the O line for molestation, but didn't get a call-very typical. How in the world does Hines Ward get a 15 yard penalty called on him, and no penalty called on any of the four Ravens going after him? Ben was hit VERY late, and no penalty, as normal again. Yet, they also called the game pretty tight in other places. At least, when it was all said and done, the refs called it evenly. I don't mind so-so officiating, when it is going both ways. But when it is so-so in the areas that hurt your team the worst, and good in the areas that help the other team, that is what I hate. But I still wonder how, in a playoff game, there can be 15 penalties called for what, over 150 yards or more? Let Them Play!

Hey... Thanks everyone for the welcome here this year as well. I gotta say this much, I sure hope suggs finds a way to leave you guys for an NFC team! Dang I hate seeing that guy on the field. He really hurts us.

I can't. When was the last time you saw these two teams gives up that many turnovers? Ray Rice Fumbled? The entire Steelers O stands around and watches the ball get picked up and ran for a TD? Long PI calls both ways? This was NOT the game I was expecting. Both teams played pretty sloppy in a half, first half the Steelers, Ravens the second half. Of course, 7 points or less, and driving for a win or tie on both sides in the last couple of minutes--even if nothing else, THAT is typical Ravens-Steelers.

I think you're confusing Rice's tweets with Casey "Big Snack" Hampton's tweets. ______________ I gotta wonder if this was just subterfuge. Same with the supposed report that ESPN has blown one of the Steeler's trick plays.

I disagree with you about Troy. If he continues to play like he is now, the question is whether he is a first ballot HOF or not, not whether he is a HOF or not. Ben has the career arc to put him in the HOF no problem. He simply needs to continue to play at this level. Aaron Smith- Like I said, he won't make it, but that isn't because of his lack of talent. Its because 3/4 DE's do not get recognition. Their job is not sacks or even a lot of tackles in run support. Its to control gaps. Help the NT control the A gap, and also take up the Guards/tackles (both if possible) to open holes for the LB's to come in and fill the gaps to stop the run. Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton are two of the best at that position that have ever played the game... FOR THE 3-4 SCHEME. Even more specifically, for a 3-4 Zone blitz (or fire blitz) scheme. As far as Ngata, Flacco, Wallace, Timmons, etc., definitely too early for any of them. BUt I do think they all have actually SHOWN potential to end up there. All that said, my main point is this game. How much of a treat it is to watch all these guys on the same field. I have a feeling, in 20 years, we will be talking about the days we saw these games, in the same way Steeler and Raiders fans talk about the 70's games.

Upon reading an article concerning Troy P. and Ed Reed, I started wondering: How many potential HOF'ers are actually in this game Saturday? I can think of quite a few potential HOF'ers. If they continue on the path they are on now, I think this is our list: Probable: Ben Roethlisberger: On track to be the all time passer in Steelers history. 8th all timein passer rating, 17th all time in career yards per game (on a run-first team for all but the last 3 years), tied for 4th in career passing yards per attempt, 7-1 with 2 SB rings, and he has only played for 6 years. Troy P. Enough said (kinda like Ed. Matter of fact, it'd be nice if Ed could play another 5-6 years, and then see troy and ed go into the HOF as 1st ballot HOFer's together. Hines W. I know, I know, he is hated over where you all are. However, He is 8th in all time receptions, tied with Randy Moss and within 102 receptions of 4th place (two more years at the pace of this year), 21st in receiving yards, 19th in TD's, and all of that on a team that was run first for 2/3rds of his career. Possible: Harrison: The biggest question here, is did he get too late of a start for his career? He has only truly been active for the last 4 years. Will that be enough? Probably should be, but probably won't do to position/scheme: Big Snack (Hampton): probably the best 3-4 nose tackle in the game today. Won't get in because his job is to fill the gap, not get sacks. Aaron Smith: Same as above (3-4 DE) Too Early to Tell: Woodley: Absolute stud, but he needs to show consistency throughout his career. Timmons: If he keeps playing like he did this year, wow. Wallace: Same as Timmons. This kid is just special ____________________________ I don't know the Ravens THAT well, but there are a few that pop out (I am sure you all can fill in the list for me). Ray Lewis Ed Reed Suggs? Ngata (probably the same as Hampton) who else? Still, that is 5 (maybe 6) probable HOF'ers in this game alone. Its no wonder these games always go to the wire.

I don't think it is that easy. It will take A game plus a scheme that is better than ours to win. To say "just bring our 'A' game" means the Ravens are a better talent/skill set than the Steelers. There is no way. Our LB's are an equal match (though different schemes), our I think our safeties have the edge (our FS is a tad bit better than your SS, Ed and Troy equal each other), our D lines are equal, your O line is better than ours, our pass game is a bit better, your run game is a bit better. All in all, if both teams bring their "A" game without schemeing, the game will be won on a mistake, nothing else (which describes the last what, 4 or 5 reg. season meetings between our teams). No, the winner will be the one whose totality of scheme and execution of said scheme is better than the other. This game will NOT be won on talent/skill alone.

You're right, right up to the last line. The winning gameplan is to be the team with the ball with 1 minute left. Winning or trailing, it doesn't matter. Ravens 20 or Steelers 20, it doesn't matter. THAT is the team that has the best chance of winning IMO. These are the games you love, and hate at the same time.

Close, actually, 5-3 in the last 8. 6-4 in the last 10. However, 2006- Jax, First year head coach, multiple injured players, including Willie P. and Troy P. 2004- NE, when they were in the height of SPYGATE. 2001- NE, Spygate?? Also, a very bad QB. 1998- Broncos, They had John Elway, we had Kordell Stewart. Any questions? I really don't think this team can be comparted to the 98 or even 01 teams. Ben has made a tremendous difference. Here are some other stats that make it look good from our perspective (but are probably just as meaningless). 7-0 in the last 5 years when Troy P. is healthy in Postseason action. 7-1 in the last 8 postseason games. 8-2 in the last 10 postseason games. 7-0 all time against divisional opponents in the postseason. 31-19 total in all postseason action. Of course, if this was baseball, I could give you the stats when a kickoff when 30 yards in the second half as the wind blew between 10 and 15 MPH during the evening on odd dated days.

I don't mind the change. However, I think it would have been easier to simply eliminate field goals all together in OT. Of course, that would probably mean more time on the field. Either that, or stop the "Sudden Death" approach and actually play another full 15 minutes.

I'm not sure about the "due" part. I think each game is just that, an individual game. These games especially. How I wish we would have met you guys in the AFCCG instead. For all the reasons I stated before in the other thread and also, because after this game, the winner (whomever it is) is going to need a week's down time to recuperate from the game.

Hilarious. Ok, to answer your questions, That is your first problem. Never trust a government study! Worse, I married a Jersey Girl. **really hope she doesn't read this forum. Am I worried about the Pats*? Yes (I'll get to the asterisk in a little bit). I would be foolish not to with their record against us. This year however, they seemed to peek about the middle of the year. Their defense is pretty horrid as well. Our offense and defense is peaking right about now, plus we are getting healthy players back (we were missing both DE's in that game, Keisel is back now, and Smith may actually make it back for the playoffs, not to mention losing Kemo who is our go to guy for Guard Pull runs, the staple of our run offense). Our two WR rookies are really starting to understand the game at this level and Wallace is beginning to know most of the route tree (not bad for a second year player). All of that to say, It won't be the same game it was in November against the Pats*. However, it is a more of a respect for the way the Ravens play the game, the properway the game is supposed to be played. An AFCCG between our two teams represents, IMO, a throwback to an era where men who didn't care about their stats, newest PR scheme, or getting on ESPN played the game right (and the league was still about football, not ONLY the dollar). That is why, when the Ravens and Steelers play in the AFCCG, the second biggest stage football has, I think Good-deal cries himself to sleep at night asking the football gods why Manning or Brady or both aren't playing. After all, those pretty-boys (moving to Good-deal's inner monologue)make it all exciting with those touchdown thingies so I can squeeze another dollar out of next contracts Not quite. Ever hear of the phrase, "familiarity breeds contempt?" When the familiarity is due to the method of playing football employed by both teams, another phrase is extant, "Grudging respect." Simple. Bigger stage to rub Good-deals nose in the game! LOL no. I did not grow up in Pittsburgh, though I grew up a Steelers fan. Became one due to my father. Long story short, while I can speak Yinzerese, It's not my native tongue. My thoughts exactly. A few years ago, I remember commentators talking about how weak the AFCN was. I got so sick of it that I actually started rooting for the Browns (choke) Bengals (puke) and Rave.... well, I didn't go THAT far I just believe that the AFC and NFC North teams usually represent football the way it was supposed to be played. And for the *: The Pats* knowingly violated rules to get an advantage. Opposing players have said that before they were even set, the defense was calling out of their set and shifting to what the Offense was intending to do. There are rules that get broke all the time, and are part of the game to break (holding, PI to stop a TD, etc.). Then there are rules which are meant to keep fair play. The Pats* violated the latter, when a well established rule was already written concerning the issue. For that reason, I cannot legitimize what the team did, or does. I don't want to clog this thread as to why, since this is a Raven's thread. But if anyone is interested in pursuing the discussion, I'll give my reasons in the general NFL forum. Actually, quite a few do. Its the idiots that derive personal legitimacy from a sports team they have no actual connection to other than "my favorite team" that spew smack. I don't mind kidding around, but in the end, its just football. No one's life is at stake, my future isn't affected by the game, and I don't play for either team, so I can be honest about both.

Once again, real football prevailed. Congratulations on making the playoffs. My wish now? You all win, go play the Pats* and win, then come to Pittsburgh for another AFCCG. Why? Not because I think it would an easy game. Just the opposite. Rather, as I said on my homeboard, it would be just the "Slap your mother kick your father throw the dog over the fence backyard brawl" that football should be--and Good-deal hates seeing played. Here's to seeing you all in three weeks. For the first time in my life, I will be rooting for the Ravens in the playoffs (least for the first two games).

That reminds me of our 2005 SB run. Every game on the road, Cincy (when they were good, yeah I know, for a year), Indy (everyone remembers Bettis' fumble!) and then the Broncos. No, doesn't quite stack up like Indy, Pit, NE. However, those kind of runs are what legends are made of. Then again, there is still one game to play. No reason to believe at this point in time you might not be in 1st place in the AFCN. My Steelers still have to take care of business- and yeah, any given Sunday...

I swear I am reading my own homeboard right now about the Steelers. We seem to continue to mirror each other. What I think the problem with the Steelers... and it just may be the same for the Ravens--- Is moving a team so founded in the run game, to a team that now throws the ball to win the game. The O line ends up having to change their style of play, and if they are big boys, it is even harder in pass coverage. The run game suffers because the RB's can't get into a groove and wear down the opposing D line. Furthermore, both of our teams lost their bruising premier running back- Jerome Bettis for us and Jamal Lewis for you all. We both have pretty good backs now, but they do not drive the definition of the team. The problem is, I really don't think either team knows how to really be a passing team, and while they don't reallly have the run game anymore, they still think of themselves that way. That's why both our teams seem very inconsistent on offense--even when we have WAY TOO MANY WEAPONS on offense to be that ineffective. Of course, both fanbases have to remember that they played against 1 of the 2 best defenses this decade.

Well, 3 points separating the teams. Game won in the last few minutes. Defense stood very strong on both sides. Probably at least 2 fines. Once again, it was a typical Ravens-Steelers game. From my perspective-- Flacco is going to be a pain in our rear end for years to come. He threw one bad pass- unfortunately it was his last one. Your receivers have REALLY changed the game for you guys. Funny however, that both these teams have evolved into more passing teams, yet these games still are just brutal. Hopefully we'll see you all again in late January. Let's show this league how the game is REALLY played.