thundercleetz

Ok I got you. Wow, that is a hell of a deal Angelos brokered that the Nats cannot get out of MASN. Being stuck at 33% maximum is tough. The Angelos family is going to get a heck of a price for the O's if they decide to sell.

I don't think they are. It is 20% their TV network or whatnot. But if the Nats had the option of buying or selling out of their stake (whatever you would want to call it), I am sure they would do it in a heart beat to negotiate a new deal on the open market or create a network that is 100% theirs so they can control their own profits.

As I mentioned: new tv deal coming in 2014. It will re-adjust for fourteen teams, I am sure of it. It is a fact: The Big Ten is the highest grossing revenue conference in the country. Add in BCS money for football and it blows the ACC out of the water. Here's why the math works: the Terps will not pay $50 million to exit. It will be closer to the $20 million number. And even that I am sure the Big Ten will help a lot with that. One more thing to not overlook, the Big Ten is a nation leader in obtaining federal research grants. The ACC has great academic institutions, but the Big Ten is much better at the moment at being a conference with shared vision and identity. The ACC is in transition right now. Don't get me wrong, Pittsburgh is a great addition for the ACC. Great fan base. It was a must get for the ACC as their football fan bases suck. Syracuse doesn't do anything for filling Byrd. You can hear your own chant echo in the Orangedome. We'll get a home game against ND once every six years so no gain there. ACC football is pathetic. Outside of FSU and Clemson, other schools are having the same problem UMD is, they cannot even fill their own stadium. What the Big Ten helps UMD with in football is it will get UMD better talent and playing against better competition will elevate our own level of play over time. The potential for a perennial top 25 team in the ACC is low. The potential to fill up Byrd every week in the ACC is even less. In the Big Ten the ability to grow into an elite program is limitless. So is this an immediate fill for Byrd? No. But if we are winning five years from now and are playing top 25 teams each week, the hype will be too much for the stadium not to fill up. The Big Ten Network is an NFL-quality broadcast. The ACC Network looks like I'm sitting out there on the fifty yard line filming and announcing the game myself. It is an embarrassment. Outside of the SEC, there is no better than Big Ten football. Once again, look at the attendance of even the worse Big Ten teams. Indiana football pulls in more money than UMD basketball! This is what we lose leaving the ACC, the tradition and rivalry games against UNC, UVA, NC State and Duke. Are any of these teams our true rival however? Like I said earlier, I am not looking forward to being in the Big East North division of the ACC. These games are the price we pay to leave but IMO we'll get over it and we'll be on a much better road in the future. I guess we'll know more on Monday. By the way Gary supports the move: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8649670/maryland-terrapins-regents-vote-big-ten-move-monday

That's not what I meant. I meant no one knows how long the Nats are financially obligated to MASN. Sure they own 15% or whatever but they contest if they were negotiating on the open market they could get more money than they are required to receive with MASN. If Angelo's dies, could the Nats buy out of their equity stake in MASN to either negotiate a new deal with someone else or create their own network? This is not known. The Nats would not be able to do this now, which is for sure what they would want to do.

So do you agree with me Papa that UMD should be jumping for joy at the prospect of a Big Ten deal?

One more thing to consider: is UMD leaving the ACC or the Big East? The ACC has added in recent years and will add in coming years Boston College, Virginia Tech, Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. With fourteen teams in the ACC, Maryland would essentially be in a 'Big East' North division of the ACC with Syracuse, Pittsburgh, BC, ND, and I'm guessing V-Tech would be the other team to restore the Big East tradition? That's not really a tradition and I could see UMD as a charter member being mad about that. And to make this even more ironic the ACC has Connecticut set to replace UMD if they leave. So there you go the ACC will have effectively absorbed the Big East. Bottom line, outside of UNC and Duke saying there is an ACC tradition is a stretch. And to say there is a tradition in ACC football would be an outright joke. Sure losing the "rivalries" with UVA, UNC, and Duke would sting in the short term (is anyone else hearing a "you're not our rival" chant right now?), but this move could really benefit UMD in the long run. IMO we should be considered lucky that the Big Ten wants us.

We know Angelos will not, but my point is no one knows the terms of the MLB deal. For example if Angelos passes away are the Nats allowed to get out of the deal? Do the Nats have to stay with MASN if the Angelos family keeps the team? Does that apply if someone else buys the team? That's all I was saying. No one knows.

It's easy, the money from one year of Big Ten Network and BCS revenues would justify it. Not to mention the Big Ten is scheduled to negotiate a new tv deal in 2014, so even more money there. Byrd Stadium is never going to fill up in the ACC. In the Big Ten we potential in the future to legitimately fill it up every week like other Big Ten schools have done for years.

The Big Ten would obviously cover a lot of this. However I have heard the exit fee may not be as high as the $50 million. UMD was one of two teams that vetoed against the raise in fee. They might have a case to get out for less.

Max the reason they make this move is simple: money. Big Ten teams last year each received $24 million alone from the Big Ten Network. DC has made the point multiple times in other topics, Friedgen really put the athletics department in red with his upgrades to Capital One Field. I do not know if you have seen Terps game day lately but that place is a ghost town. So when it comes to football, I think moving to the Big Ten helps UMD immensely. For football no one cares if you're playing Duke, UNC, UVA, or BC. Even 90's powerhouses like FSU and Miami no one will go see. ACC teams cannot even fill up their own home stadiums (outside of maybe Clemson and FSU). That's why the ACC took Pittsburgh, they need some serious football fan bases. Big Ten teams like Michigan, OSU, PSU, Nebraska, Iowa, and Wisconsin they fill up their stadiums every week! Even Purdue, Indiana, and MSU have great attendance when their football teams are not doing well, why do you think the Big Ten Network brings in so much money? Sure we we will get eaten up early on in football, but this will help a lot with recruiting. As I have mentioned earlier, UMD and PSU have historically recruited the same areas on the East Coast. A lot of our local guys go to PSU. Playing in the Big Ten gave them the edge. It will be rough at first, but our team has a lot of talent. In the long run this should help fill up our stadium. A lot of Big Ten schools have great traveling fan bases. Basketball-wise I do not think anything will change. Turgeon is a great recruiter and he will get talent no matter what. Sure we do not play Duke, UNC, or NC State (and also miss out on Pittsburgh and ND). But we gain Michigan, Indiana, OSU, Illinois, and MSU. Duke and UNC are elite programs, but Michigan, Indiana, and OSU have just as much tradition and historical success and these teams annually get top recruits. So regardless when we are recruiting guys locally, we can tell them they are going against top competition. Then there's the Big Ten Network for basketball again, which will get our guys national exposure in areas they wouldn't usually get it (the Midwest). After thinking it through I am for this move.

I remember reading articles every offseason stating Kyle Boller and Travis Taylor worked out together every single day throwing passes and running routes, it didn't help much...

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8644587 It looks like these talks are pretty serious and Rutgers would follow us. Here is the key point: Financially the move makes sense and the Big Ten is a much better football conference, not to mention the ACC Network sucks and the Big Ten Network blows it out of the water in terms of production quality. However the tradition and rivalries we lose with UNC, Duke, and UVA are irreplaceable. Rutgers and/or Penn State would probably be our new in-conference rivals. We have had a historical recruiting rivalry for football with Penn State. Right now they are the much better football team and we are the much better basketball team, but it could be a more even rivalry in the future. I just hope this move isn't being made because of short-term financial problems. If we truly see this as a move that will make UMD athletics an elite athletic program in the future then I can live with that. If this move is simply done as a quick fix, financial bailout for the athletics department then I do not think our history is worth giving up.

Right and that is where the MASN deal is weird, the details are sparse. No one knows for sure what the league promised Angelos and there is no termination date. So who really knows what happens when Angelos passes. Like you said, the Nats ownership stake will get as high as 33% or so. Maybe they will be able to sell out of their equity later. Ideally the Nats would probably like to either negotiate their own deal or create their own network.

TBS does pay the Braves, but the point is the Braves don't own their own network like the O's, Yanks, Rangers, and Sox do. So any excess profits that are made go straight to the owners, not the team. I am sure Turner could have sold the TV rights to the Braves as well, so the new owner could have created their own network but the property is way too valuable. I am sure there are escalators but the when the team owns the network there is a lot more potential for profit. When you're in a contract with a network you're locked into a deal and your upside is limited (which is what the Nats are complaining about). As far as an owner buying the team without MASN, I point to Cal Ripken. With MASN he would probably not be able to afford the O's. But without MASN he might be able to be a part of a group that could afford the O's. I am not saying it is smart, I am just saying owning an MLB team is a luxury and there will always be a buyer.

Right my point is that the Angelos family holds all the cards here because of MASN. They could get a really high price for O's with MASN or broker a brand new TV deal keeping MASN and selling off the O's to a new owner.There are only 30 MLB teams: someone will buy them no matter what. Turner sold the Braves but kept the television rigs. There is a lot of unknown about the MASN deal. There is supposedly no termination date, but when the Nats first came to DC there were rumblings their commitment to the company was tied to how long Angelos had the team. Does that extend to his family if he dies? No one knows...

Right, Angelos owns MASN just like he owns the Orioles. I don't think his equity in ownership can go below 80% unless he physically sells it. If his family wants to keep MASN and sell the O's, they should be able to. Obviously the TV deal would have to be negotiated in this type of deal. But you have to think what the Nats end up getting out of MASN any new owner of the O's would at least want that. Bottom line, Angelos makes a lot of money from MASN, not the O's.

Remember Flacco had his best year with Zorn as QB coach. Coming out of college ESPN did a segment on Flacco having to work very hard on his footwork and drop backs. As tall as Flacco is he needs someone to constantly keep on his footwork. In 2010 Zorn was able to identify when Flacco's footwork was getting sloppy and got him to explode off of his back foot and into his throws on the deep drop backs. In 2011 Zorn was not there and Flacco's footwork got really sloppy. Flacco really needs his own pitching coach pretty much. I am glad to see he and Caldwell are working well together. I can definitely see that Caldwell has helped Joe with his play action and in the red zone.

Well the Orioles as a team are guaranteed a certain amount of money from MASN each year. There was actually an article in the Washington Post where the Nationals were going to sue Angelos and MASN because they did not believe their revenue share was increasing in relative to the market value of a television contract for the average MLB team. The under-stated fact in that article is the Nationals guaranteed share is tied to the Orioles guaranteed share. So if the Nats take-home amount increases, so does the Orioles. Yes, the Orioles, not Angelos. So in other words, Angelos is pocketing a good amount of money that does not have to go to the team. This is why the consensus say Angelos negotiated a one-sided deal with the MLB when the Nats game to town. Whoever owns the profitable MASN stands to gain a lot of money that is not tied to the Orioles or the Nats. You would have to think if somoene bought the O's they would want to negotiate a fair market share from MASN profits.

Two ways of looking at it: If MASN was not included the sale could include buyers with a lower budget, say a group headlined by Cal Ripken. If MASN is included, the team is going to fetch a lot of money for the Angelos family. MASN is going to be a big money maker for whoever owns it for the forseeable future. It would definitely be an asset for the Angelos family. What it is going to come down to is what type of offers the family gets for the team with MASN and without MASN.

What about in February? I do not think Buck was screwed. Sure Buck had the most wins over last year's record of any manager, but Melvin did win his division, had a significantly lower payroll, and beat Buck in head-to-head matchups. The A's were not great last year either. I think Melvin leading the A's back to win the division in the last week of the season won him the award. I am not saying Melvin deserved the award over Buck, but I am saying either guy deserved the award.

Way too many variables involved to comment. Revenue sharing could be completely different by the time every team has a TV deal like you mention. The league could have a new salary structure (unlikely, but maybe a larger luxery tax?). The more realistic thing to look at is who is going to own the O's after Angelos passes. We could either have a filthy rich owner who spends regardless of the playing field, or we could have an owner much cheaper than Angelos where none of this would matter. Since Angelos owns MASN, the Angelos family might keep MASN and just sell the team (if they decide to do so at all). So there is a good chance that the next owner might not have MASN revenues to work with (I think the O's as a team are guaranteed a certain amount, not sure how much). The ownership situation is a much better tell of the future state of this team.

Get well soon, Max!

Ugh, that would be terrible. I know Maryland a few times has been in the minority when it comes to voting issues in the ACC, but leaving the ACC would be disasterous.

I did not see the game but I heard Ben got injured and had to leave the game. I wonder how serious it is.

What kind of move?