Logic

[dc.]

Seriously. It needs to be a class in school. Separate of English and Math and Writing and Social Studies... which all ask students to use logic and expect them to 'gain' an understanding of logic and apply it...

 

I just don't get it. I don't get why so many people cannot understand the basics of logic and formal reasoning.

 

If A, then B.

 

A.

 

Therefore?

 

Everyone together now...

 

B. Yes, B.

 

If A, then B.

 

B.

 

Therefore A?

 

Not always...

 

B only if A exclusively.

 

B.

 

Therefore A?

 

Yes. Exclusively.

 

AAAAARGH.

 

 

 

Yes, JakeBrinnerman. This post has everything to do with you.

[ForceEight]

It is a class. It was one of the ones I skipped once I knew I was leaving school last year. :lol:

 

He sees your logic, and understands it quite clearly. It's more a matter of inability to argue (or, more specifically, to win an argument), and using falsehoods, irrelevancies, or easily-confusable terms to counter.

 

For example, you say that the sky is blue, and I say it's red. I know it's blue, and can't win the argument, but, say, I counter with the idea that as a child, you once called the sky purple, so your argument is irrelevant and incorrect based on prior position.

 

More related to the subject, you say that Holmes' catch in the SB was a touchdown, while I say it wasn't. I'm obviously wrong, so I point out that you said his catch against us in the second game wasn't a touchdown, so the idea of an inconsistency invalidates your argument.

 

All of what I just said is completely ridiculous, yes, but it's how overmatched people argue. Especially in things like sports and politics.

[ravinmaniac52]

You two need to hang around with Michael Phelps!

[dc.]

Force, I meant in middle and high school... I took logic in college. But between those who never get to college and those who get to college and still can't figure it out (which is plenty), it needs to be explained.

 

Seriously, when I was teaching social studies last year to high schoolers, I was expected as the instructor to get my students to write papers and make arguments and all that jazz. And even when they knew the information, they simply couldn't do it. It was half a writing problem (which was somehow my job to teach as well), but it was also a huge problem of basic thinking and problem solving skills.

 

If we want kids to be able to function, they need to be able to do this stuff. And it's not getting done when they are younger and so now the solution is to pass it off to ALL of the high school and middle school teachers. And yes, such teachers SHOULD have to refine those skills and improve them through papers and argument and discussion, but a teacher in high school can't just stop class to re-teach basic thinking!

 

He sees your logic, and understands it quite clearly.

 

Meanwhile, I still disagree here. I think what you said is occasionally true. Or perhaps true more often than not. That people just get overmatched and resort to whatever they think will win an argument.

 

But I think that some people simply do not understand when two issues or propositions are unrelated. It is a problem of (a) seeing connections that do not exist and (B) not seeing the connections that do exist.

 

You two need to hang around with Michael Phelps!

 

I do. And his friends. And I don't mean that in the joking way of I smoke up. I don't. I mean I do hang out with him and his friends. lol

[ForceEight]

About seeing your logic, generally, I think you're right. I just meant that in that specific argument, he knows what you're talking about, but really doesn't give a damn because it doesn't help him and his argument.

 

I completely agree with the idea of that sort of thing being taught earlier. I was fortunate enough to have a lot of really good teachers, so many of them intentionally embedded these ideas within whatever we were doing, or otherwise outright taught it. However, I didn't have most teachers, and I recognize this systematic flaw of teaching.

 

And screw Michael Phelps.

[BeenAround]

"Now & never are not the same, but they are not different."

Lao Tse

[dc.]

The Way, the Tao, is great.

 

Be you. Be nothing else.