A taste of 2005?

[geo]

I have not been reading any of Prestons stuff lately... if I had he would probably inform me, not sure he is my medicin just now.

 

Why is the disciplin on this team worse than ever, even without Scott?

What is going on with Suggs and Reed, is it just injuries, and if so why is Harbs responding that he has no clue if they are ready or not.. just like Rolle in the off season?

 

Why did our offense in the last minute not play for a win, how unlikely it would be? Why this slow motion?

 

What about all this doghouse shit. Dw and Barnes in the doghouse or what and then when there were no obtions left, they played and did pretty good? And why is Walker on this team and why is Mason allowed to react as he does? And what about LJ Smith if he is injured then put him on IR.

 

All the exits to Willie, C-Mac, Rolle, Stover and Lo Neal.. Okay I understand we need to be younger, but all those funny goodbyes, like we contact them if we like to do so. Like they never even existed, what about a decent good bye?

 

As for the expectations, I think in the best case we would have had 10-12 wins in worst case 7-9 wins, and actually if the bengals had been playing like last year we would have been 8-4.. so not sure we are degressing that much, probably some kind of the same impression we felt like we did last year after the G-men killed us and thougth well we have our QB he just need some more games and some WRs. Just now I sense we have not been moving since 2005, and Harbs and the players are not on the same page..

[varaven45]

Its beginning to smell and look like 05. Like I said earlier, its sort of become the yo-yo success mantra of this team. Good one year, bad or mediocre the next. We cannot seem to string together two consecutive winning seasons, can we ?

[thundercleetz]

Yes, 2005 is the best way to describe this season. Very similar. The only way we could get even more similar is a loss in Pittsburgh that would eliminate us from the playoff race. With that said, I'm expecting a 13-3 season next year!

[vmax]

geo...Preston, in an article today, has a side note about what is going on here league wide. Parity is part of the reason so many organizations are 'up and down' with success/failure going in cycles...

 

It kind of relates to the topic...

 

It's tough watching the Ravens play. Despite all their shortcomings, they'll probably be in the playoff race until the end.

 

That's the way the NFL prefers it. League officials call it parity, another name for a lot of watered-down teams having a lot of holes.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-sp.preston09dec09,0,2405514.column

 

The positive to this is an apx 50% turnover in playoff teams. Teams going from 6-10 to 10-6 every year...and then back down again.. That gets fans excited and gives them hope. Even Browns fans think this is their year every pre season...until OCT 1st...

 

The downs side is watered-down football. There are only so many quality starting QB's, DE's, Nose guards, LT's and shut down CB's available. Not enough for 32 teams and that will get worse with expansion.

Because of the CAP (and I'm all for it), teams can only 'buy' so many difference making stars. You can't throw money into all the team holes because that CAP keeps the spending playing field level.

 

So...for example...Ozzie rolls the dice and they decide to bring back Walker and Washington...he buys Fozworth thinking this will fill the void and tighten up the secondary...Rolle will be back anyway... Well...it hasn't worked out to plan and the quickest way to go from 1st to worst is to have a crappy secondary. The next way is a crappy QB. Both are mortal wounds to a football team.

We've lived that here in Baltimore. We know.

 

Thankfully Ozzie hits well in the draft. He got Webb and it would really be bad without him this year. He got Flacco and Rice. He committed to building an O line and that will bare fruit and keep this team competative. After years of drafting defense he went for O the last few...that's paying off but now the D has holes showing up.

 

See the cycle?

 

You can't have it all...you can't stay on top forever or the bottom. The exceptions here are few: There are outstanding Front Offices who put a competetive product out with regularity. They are the Slappie Front Offices/Owners who can't hit the side of the barn with a shot gun.

 

The Ravens stated goal is to be consistently competetive...like the Colts, Pats ect.

That was stated around the time Harbaugh was hired so they have not achieved that yet...it's early for a plan like that. It means they will not mortgage the future to win now. They will not go to CAP Jail. Ozzie did that once to get us a Super Bowl and he won't do that again. He loved the Ring but hated the price and consequences.

 

As we all know there are a ton of factors that go into building a solid football team and that is why we have so much to talk about in the off season.

 

Long winded today but I love talking football with everybody...

[geo]

geo...Preston, in an article today, has a side note about what is going on here league wide. Parity is part of the reason so many organizations are 'up and down' with success/failure going in cycles...

 

It kind of relates to the topic...

 

 

 

The positive to this is an apx 50% turnover in playoff teams. Teams going from 6-10 to 10-6 every year...and then back down again.. That gets fans excited and gives them hope. Even Browns fans think this is their year every pre season...until OCT 1st...

 

The downs side is watered-down football. There are only so many quality starting QB's, DE's, Nose guards, LT's and shut down CB's available. Not enough for 32 teams and that will get worse with expansion.

Because of the CAP (and I'm all for it), teams can only 'buy' so many difference making stars. You can't throw money into all the team holes because that CAP keeps the spending playing field level.

 

So...for example...Ozzie rolls the dice and they decide to bring back Walker and Washington...he buys Fozworth thinking this will fill the void and tighten up the secondary...Rolle will be back anyway... Well...it hasn't worked out to plan and the quickest way to go from 1st to worst is to have a crappy secondary. The next way is a crappy QB. Both are mortal wounds to a football team.

We've lived that here in Baltimore. We know.

 

Thankfully Ozzie hits well in the draft. He got Webb and it would really be bad without him this year. He got Flacco and Rice. He committed to building an O line and that will bare fruit and keep this team competative. After years of drafting defense he went for O the last few...that's paying off but now the D has holes showing up.

 

See the cycle?

 

You can't have it all...you can't stay on top forever or the bottom. The exceptions here are few: There are outstanding Front Offices who put a competetive product out with regularity. They are the Slappie Front Offices/Owners who can't hit the side of the barn with a shot gun.

 

The Ravens stated goal is to be consistently competetive...like the Colts, Pats ect.

That was stated around the time Harbaugh was hired so they have not achieved that yet...it's early for a plan like that. It means they will not mortgage the future to win now. They will not go to CAP Jail. Ozzie did that once to get us a Super Bowl and he won't do that again. He loved the Ring but hated the price and consequences.

 

As we all know there are a ton of factors that go into building a solid football team and that is why we have so much to talk about in the off season.

 

Long winded today but I love talking football with everybody...

Wow not bad.

[varaven45]

Wow not bad.

 

Max,

 

Good stuff. But I thought Biscotti brought in Harbs to be elite like NE and Indy from the get go. I know Harbs will get a mulligan this year (after last yrs success) but I thought we were striving for a playoff team every yr. Its not over yet but we arent a legit playoff team this year. It looks like we are deviating from our plan of producing an elite team every year.

 

It may come across a bit presumptious or even insensitive but either we hired Harbs to win and become Indy and NE like every year. If we dont this year, we need to make necessary changes to make that happen. Lets be accountable here !

[thundercleetz]

Max,

 

Good stuff. But I thought Biscotti brought in Harbs to be elite like NE and Indy from the get go. I know Harbs will get a mulligan this year (after last yrs success) but I thought we were striving for a playoff team every yr. Its not over yet but we arent a legit playoff team this year. It looks like we are deviating from our plan of producing an elite team every year.

 

It may come across a bit presumptious or even insensitive but either we hired Harbs to win and become Indy and NE like every year. If we dont this year, we need to make necessary changes to make that happen. Lets be accountable here !

 

I think it is worth mentioning that when Harbaugh was hired we were expected to take a couple of years to become an elite team. The success of last year spoiled a lot of us fans into thinking that jump would be instant. Nevertheless, I am sure Harbaugh would be the first to tell you that there is still a timeline on these kind of things. The jump to elite does not happen overnight, heck not even over a couple of seasons. This is why these last four games are so critical going into next year. If we can come out 9-7, 10-6, that is still pretty solid for a second year head coach who would have a career record of 21-11/20-12. Despite all the ups and downs this team has been through this season, this is NOT 2005 where we had a divided lockerroom and players thought they ran the team. This is still Harbaugh's team without a doubt, and that is something we able to build on going into next season. With Billick there was not a winning culture around here, I think Harbaugh little by little is embedding a mindset where we can compete with any team and win any game. Our games have been tough this season, but this schedule is only going to make us tougher going into the future as we have been in every game this season right down to the end. With Billick we would get blown out by the elite teams.

 

I think you have to throw last year out the window. The fact of the matter remains we have a second year QB, a very young offensive line, a 22-year old runningback, and we are a defense in transition. When Harbaugh took this job we knew we were eventually going to have to build a new foundation based on the Eagles model (built around both sides of the line). We are starting to see the core emerge with Gaither, Oher, Flacco, Yanda, Rice, Le'Ron McClain, and Grubbs (hopefully he is just going through a bad stretch) on offense and on defense we have guys like Edwards, Ngata, Suggs, Webb, Kruger, JJ, and Ellerbe. Ozzie still has some work to do, but we need to remember that this franchise was in pretty bad shape when Harbaugh took over as we were aging FAST. Last year was basically the result of Harbaugh being able to lean on Rex a little bit and savage what was left out of a defense that was going to age or get split up. Now we just need to continue to get the right guys.

[dc.]

Why is the disciplin on this team worse than ever, even without Scott?

What is going on with Suggs and Reed, is it just injuries, and if so why is Harbs responding that he has no clue if they are ready or not.. just like Rolle in the off season?

 

Why did our offense in the last minute not play for a win, how unlikely it would be? Why this slow motion?

 

What about all this doghouse shit. Dw and Barnes in the doghouse or what and then when there were no obtions left, they played and did pretty good? And why is Walker on this team and why is Mason allowed to react as he does? And what about LJ Smith if he is injured then put him on IR.

 

All the exits to Willie, C-Mac, Rolle, Stover and Lo Neal.. Okay I understand we need to be younger, but all those funny goodbyes, like we contact them if we like to do so. Like they never even existed, what about a decent good bye?

 

As for the expectations, I think in the best case we would have had 10-12 wins in worst case 7-9 wins, and actually if the bengals had been playing like last year we would have been 8-4.. so not sure we are degressing that much, probably some kind of the same impression we felt like we did last year after the G-men killed us and thougth well we have our QB he just need some more games and some WRs. Just now I sense we have not been moving since 2005, and Harbs and the players are not on the same page..

 

I think you're talking about different forms of discipline here.

 

Discipline on the field is knowing where to be, keeping your spot, etc. If a player isn't disciplined on the field, then perhaps they shouldn't play or maybe it's just a coaching problem. But a lack of discipline on the field is, generally, a skills/learning problem. There is no set or easy way to fix it. You can't bench everyone. You also can't scare that kind of discipline or knowledge into a player. It's like a teacher-student relationship... you can't shout at a kid until he remembers something. Even if you could it wouldn't work for long.

 

Discipline off the field or behavior issues are different. That's where punishment and yelling and benching really works and comes in.

 

I think the Ravens this year have serious discipline issues in the first trend - guys that don't know where to be, how to play, etc. They can't hold their ground, do the right thing when they have to.

 

The discipline problems of years past were largely of the other variety. Mason's penalties for shouting/throwing things are issues of behavior control.

 

I'm not saying that either are especially excusable... simply that they are different. I think Harbaugh is pretty good (and has been pretty good) about keeping on top of the behavior issues - with Mason seemingly excluded. But I think his treatment of CMac and Scott last year spoke to that. And perhaps his treatment of DWill and Walker speak to that as well.

 

He clearly hasn't had much success in the on-field discipline... but everything, even coaching, is a learning process. What works for one group (last year's team) is not guaranteed to work for another team (this year's).