Nick Boyle

[papasmurfbell]

Depends on the rookie.

 

Clayton, Doss & TT - no, Boldin and Roddy White and Julio - yes.

You do realize we are talking about a TE? Also TE's as rookies rarely play great ball. They under-perform compared to the rest of their career.

 

 

Didn't we start a rookie in 08 at the most important position on the field and made it to the AFC chanpionship game?

 

Didn't we win a super bowl with 2 rookie TEs in 12?

Was this in 2000 or 2012 that they had 2 rookie TE's?

 

Also Joe played better than he should have. It is not wise to take exceptions to the rule and try to make them the rule. Would you propose drafting a QB in the 6th round letting him start yr 2 and expecting him to be a HOFer?

[TBird]

Yea, I knew it but included WR but if you just want to stick to

TEs, you can start Shannan Sharp, Gonzales, Heap, Gronk, Jimmy

and John Mackey. Pitta barely played at all as a rookie TE because

of Heap but then he was cut and Pitta helped win the SB with a TD

and Dickson made some big catches in that game.

 

Ravens have always had good TEs if not great going back to Shannan

Sharpe who was our veteran TE in SB35.

 

The Sharpe trade was like the Frank Robinson trade for the Os. They

put their teams over the hump and into the big dance right away. They

were the home run hitters both teams needed to win.

[papasmurfbell]

I know when they got Shannon. You really make my point when you say how Heap had so much PT when Pitta and Dickson were rookies.

[papasmurfbell]

I would also mention Ben Coates during that SB run. Without him being such a good blocker there would be no SB.

[TBird]

Heap was gone after that - too old and slow and he got injured.

He kept himself out for fear of re-injury and Ravens dumped him

after the season. Heap could have started as a rookie if we didn't

have one of the best in Sharpe.

 

The Ravens were 7-9 in Heap's second season. He caught 68 passes

for 836 yards and 6 touchdowns and was voted to his first Pro Bowl.

That was his first full year of playing.

 

Gronk played as a rookie and did OK.

[TBird]

In fact, it's the good thing we had Dickson because when Heap got

hurt during Ed's rookie year he came in and gained about 132 yards.

 

That blows your theory away. The rookie TE contributed his first year.

 

After Heap left Dickson gained over 500 yards in his second yr. Ed was drafted

before Pitta and came out the gate faster before Pitta moved forward.

 

Ravens could cut Heap because of the rookies they drafted the year before.

[papasmurfbell]

Heap was gone after that - too old and slow and he got injured.

He kept himself out for fear of re-injury and Ravens dumped him

after the season. Heap could have started as a rookie if we didn't

have one of the best in Sharpe.

 

The Ravens were 7-9 in Heap's second season. He caught 68 passes

for 836 yards and 6 touchdowns and was voted to his first Pro Bowl.

That was his first full year of playing.

 

Gronk played as a rookie and did OK.

But Heap was not a rookie in his 2nd yr. He was able to be there as a solid mentor and make solid catches in 2010. So you use Gronk the exception as the rule. Sounds like a plan.

 

 

In fact, it's the good thing we had Dickson because when Heap got

hurt during Ed's rookie year he came in and gained about 132 yards.

 

That blows your theory away. The rookie TE contributed his first year.

 

After Heap left Dickson gained over 500 yards in his second yr. Ed was drafted

before Pitta and came out the gate faster before Pitta moved forward.

 

Ravens could cut Heap because of the rookies they drafted the year before.

132 yds is a successful season to you. BTW that number isn't even correct. They cut Todd after being useful the rookie yr of their new TE's. Also you failed to mention Kris Wilson in Dickson and Pitta's 2nd yr. A longtime TE to mentor the young guys.

[TBird]

Damn Smurf - That was only for a couple of games by a rookie

filling in for the old man who refused to play hurt, one reason

why Ravens cut him when they did.

 

Dixon had 500 yards in his first full year of starting.

 

 

But relax man, Pitta says he's coming back, so there's your

precious vet. Click on one of the vids to the left in link.

 

some nice catches by Perriman in the link too.

 

Oh, btw - thanks for the compliment but I'm the oldest dude on

here. I've been going to pro games in Baltimore since the 50s.

No mas. Bad lungs keep me from walking around the stadium and

up from the tailgates but I went to most of all the baltimore colts

games and every Ravens game for the first 15 years they were

here and spent thousands more following them around the country.

Been to almost every stadium with your old pal Mista T from scout.

 

You know me. I was Sirius Raven over there. We walked back to H

lot after a game and you pulled a yellow crying towel out of a fence.

The owner came over and said that's mine and you dropped your

pants and wiped your ass with it and threw it in the drum with fire.

The guy just walked away. LOL

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Highlights-From-Rookie-Minicamp/82088580-7e0f-46c2-a230-0581d545aea5

[papasmurfbell]

They let Todd go because they didn't want to pay him so much and his production was not as good. In fact yrs earlier I was saying to trade Todd. You couldn't have that Todd was a fan fav and he had to retire a Raven.

 

Sure Dickson played well yr 2 but he still had a long time vet on the roster with him. Pitta is done. And he has said no such thing as he is coming back. He is routinely on 98 Rock and Justin asks him each time if he is coming back. Everytime he has said he doesn't know.

[TBird]

You're right about not paying him but he got hurt a

lot and wouldn't play thru the injuries or take cortisone

because he was a Mormon. They don't take certain meds

and can't drink coffee because it has caffein which they

believe have evil spirits. True.

 

Its a shame Heap didn't get a ring here after winning so

many games, same as Mason but Ozzie went with the

youth movement. They should have had at least one

on the Lee Evans drop and one in 06 that Billick blew

with all the talent Ozzie gave him.

[papasmurfbell]

OK. I was fine with letting him go. That doesn't change that they have always had an established vet at every spot of the field if the need arises. They don;'t have that now.

[TBird]

Name 5 teams that do?

 

NE is weaker after winning the SB. They lost 2 of their

best guys in the secondary,one is probably the best in

Revis. The other is guy we just got -Arrington.

 

SF of Sb47 has lost over 1/2 of that team.

 

Seattle doesn't have vets at every position and neither do

Squeelers.

 

Name 5 teams that do.

 

You're whining about TE while the Ravens have more depth

than any team on paper. They just upgraded the secondary.

They got depth for d-line and the o-line and RB and WR.

 

TEs block most of the time anyway and Gilmore and

Nick Boyle can block and catch.

 

You're worrying about nothing.

 

Ravens are 1 of 4 teams poised for the SB right now.

[papasmurfbell]

NAme 5 teams that do what? I am not exactly getting what you are asking.

[TBird]

OK, I'll make it easy for you.

 

You said Ravens don't have a vet at every position on the team.

 

I said name 5 teams that do have a vet at every poisition on

the team.

 

I'll make it easy for you and say name 2 teams with vets at

every position on the team.

 

You won't because you can't. There are none or maybe 1 or 2.

 

Ravens are one of the deepest teams on paper in NFL. They

were last year too and only made the POs because of all the

depth they had with over 18 guys getting injured since camp

started.

 

Had they stayed health, and even if Jimmy stays in, the Ravens

win the SB but got into the POs with a deleted secondary and

a DB who wasn't even playing football when the POs started.

They won with him in Pissburgh but lost in NE with a ton of

cheating and illegal footballs to beat him.

 

Again, RAVENS are deep at every position, even TE with

the youngsters they have but continue to worry if you must.

[papasmurfbell]

I met they don't have a vet at TE. They have one everywhere else.

 

http://www.patriots.com/team/roster

The pats do. At any position with in the mix that have at least 1 guy with 3 yrs exp.

 

http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster
Sea is thin at exp with the WR but do have Kearse with 4 yrs. They are also thin with exp with QB but Russell is there with 4 yrs.

 

http://www.packers.com/team/players.html
The Pakers have usually 2-3 exp players at each position.

 

http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/roster

The Cowboys have it also.

 

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster.html
Lots of exp and reall to much in Denver.

So again the Ravens don't have positional exp at TE. That is the glaring hole on the roster.

[vmax]

I met they don't have a vet at TE. They have one everywhere else.

 

http://www.patriots.com/team/roster

The pats do. At any position with in the mix that have at least 1 guy with 3 yrs exp.

 

http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster

Sea is thin at exp with the WR but do have Kearse with 4 yrs. They are also thin with exp with QB but Russell is there with 4 yrs.

 

http://www.packers.com/team/players.html

The Pakers have usually 2-3 exp players at each position.

 

http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/roster

The Cowboys have it also.

 

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster.html

Lots of exp and reall to much in Denver.

 

 

So again the Ravens don't have positional exp at TE. That is the glaring hole on the roster.

 

And this means what?

[thundercleetz]

Out of all the positions on the field, tight-end is probably up there about being least worried about as far as having a veteran presence.

[papasmurfbell]

 

And this means what?

It means I answered TBirds query exactly as he asked it.

 

 

Out of all the positions on the field, tight-end is probably up there about being least worried about as far as having a veteran presence.

Actually being a WCO I disagree. I think it is a really important part of the offense.

[thundercleetz]

Actually being a WCO I disagree. I think it is a really important part of the offense.

Well if you want to get technical I'll group Juice with the TE's and say we are just fine.

[papasmurfbell]

Has he lines up there yet?

[thundercleetz]

Has he lines up there yet?

Since you brought up the WCO, yes, I would say he has. A TE in motion, H-Back, motioning a TE from the backfield in the shotgun to the slot, it's all the same. A 'Y' receiver (flex) can be a 6'5 250 "tight-end" or a bigger receiver like Anquan Boldin or Marlon Brown. Everything I just mentioned are traditional uses of a tight-end. It doesn't matter what the position title is of the player performing the tasks, it's the same in the playbook.

 

Juice can do all the responsibilities listed above, all of which are traditional responsibilities of a TE. If you're asking me if he can line up in a three point stance at the LOS and block a defensive end, no he can't. So in that aspect, yes, we are taking a risk not having a vet. In all other aspects of the position, we are just fine.

 

I'm OK with betting on Gilmore or Boyle being a serviceable blocker for us. Heck, Hurst could come in and be "TE" and block at the goaline. Title means very little, we have a diverse set of talents that can each do their part to fill the role.

[TBird]

I met they don't have a vet at TE. They have one everywhere else.

 

http://www.patriots.com/team/roster

The pats do. At any position with in the mix that have at least 1 guy with 3 yrs exp.

 

http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster

Sea is thin at exp with the WR but do have Kearse with 4 yrs. They are also thin with exp with QB but Russell is there with 4 yrs.

 

http://www.packers.com/team/players.html

The Pakers have usually 2-3 exp players at each position.

 

http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/roster

The Cowboys have it also.

 

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster.html

Lots of exp and reall to much in Denver.

 

 

So again the Ravens don't have positional exp at TE. That is the glaring hole on the roster.

OK, if you were just talking about TEs. Some of those rosters

only list one position like at CENTER so you can't make a blanket

statement that there's a vet at every position.

 

Those are all PO teams and will likely make the POs again, same

with the Ravens who are deeper than they were last year even

at TE minus the vet.

 

And Juice has played H-back and TE so there's your vet if

needed.

 

You worry too much.

[TBird]

Here's your vet TE Smurf and it says here he picked up

the slack for receptions when Pitta went down so there

goes your big hole theory. In fact, Ravens were looking at

a vet TE but didn't sign him because Juice is a better blocker.

 

 

The Ravens' fullback, Juszczyk is a second-year fourth rounder who helped pick up Dennis Pitta's pass-catching slack in 2014, hauling in 19 receptions for 182 yards and a touchdown. He added six more grabs across two playoff games. Juszczyk isn't guaranteed a 2015 roster spot, but will get the benefit of the doubt in camp. Jan 10 - 9:36 PM

 

Juice had over 1500 yards at Harvard as SR TE and H-BACK

with 26 TD as 2 time All America. Kiper called him the

best TE and HBACK in his draft class.

 

 

 

So quit the worrying.

 

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-05/sports/bs-sp-cowherd-ravens-column-0506-20130505_1_matt-birk-ravens-rookie-ravens-coaches

[papasmurfbell]

Since you brought up the WCO, yes, I would say he has. A TE in motion, H-Back, motioning a TE from the backfield in the shotgun to the slot, it's all the same. A 'Y' receiver (flex) can be a 6'5 250 "tight-end" or a bigger receiver like Anquan Boldin or Marlon Brown. Everything I just mentioned are traditional uses of a tight-end. It doesn't matter what the position title is of the player performing the tasks, it's the same in the playbook.

 

Juice can do all the responsibilities listed above, all of which are traditional responsibilities of a TE. If you're asking me if he can line up in a three point stance at the LOS and block a defensive end, no he can't. So in that aspect, yes, we are taking a risk not having a vet. In all other aspects of the position, we are just fine.

 

I'm OK with betting on Gilmore or Boyle being a serviceable blocker for us. Heck, Hurst could come in and be "TE" and block at the goaline. Title means very little, we have a diverse set of talents that can each do their part to fill the role.

 

Here's your vet TE Smurf and it says here he picked up

the slack for receptions when Pitta went down so there

goes your big hole theory. In fact, Ravens were looking at

a vet TE but didn't sign him because Juice is a better blocker.

 

 

The Ravens' fullback, Juszczyk is a second-year fourth rounder who helped pick up Dennis Pitta's pass-catching slack in 2014, hauling in 19 receptions for 182 yards and a touchdown. He added six more grabs across two playoff games. Juszczyk isn't guaranteed a 2015 roster spot, but will get the benefit of the doubt in camp. Jan 10 - 9:36 PM

 

Juice had over 1500 yards at Harvard as SR TE and H-BACK

with 26 TD as 2 time All America. Kiper called him the

best TE and HBACK in his draft class.

 

 

 

So quit the worrying.

 

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-05/sports/bs-sp-cowherd-ravens-column-0506-20130505_1_matt-birk-ravens-rookie-ravens-coaches

 

 

As I recall I only remember him coming out of the backfield to catch balls. I don't recall him in a TE or H-back situation going of for a pass. Basically since TE was thin they started calling plays were he would go out as a TE. Also Juice is only in his 3rd yr. This will be his 2nd yr starting. Not really the mentor or vet you would look to for a position.

[TBird]

LOL - So now you say he's just in his 3rd year. Before it has to be a vet. Now it has to be

a vet with many, many, years of service to fill the hole you think is at TE.

 

 

Nobody ever does recall just the blocking but Juice has proven he is a good blocker.

 

He filled in for Leach as a blocking FB in a great way that nobody misses Leach and

he was the best blocker we had.

 

I used to be a blocker. I played everywhere on the line and RB and I blocked. He has

blocking experience as the best in his draft class as Mel Kiper put it.