Is It Really This Bad?

[dc.]

I just saw the first episode. It was just ok but I want to see the rest. It sounds interesting.

Watched it all. Not amazing, but it gets better as it guess and the plot at least holds you pretty well... Lots going on by the end.

 

I most enjoyed some if the nice subtle references to historical ideas buried in there- the language used that mirrors the actual ideas and terms of the time by the Nazis and Japanese. Great sets as well.

[papasmurfbell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGnwlPAZjpM

[TBird]

 

Thank you! That was really, really bothering me.

Don't fall for the liberal spin. They were socialists and both failed terribly.

China was broke fighting the Korean war and getting it's ass kicked at the end of it

when they were ready to discuss peace. Their own soldiers were starving to death not to

mention American POWs.

 

The Soviet Union was communism and used a socialistic system like they have in Europe

which is failing.

 

Both those countries experiements with socialism as failed and so is Europe's.

 

China is now practicing capitalism and going thru the same economic problems we had 8 yrs

ago with the crash and housing bust and Russians are still starving.

[TBird]

DEE - Do you know what the USSR MEANT.Socialist is in the name of their country.

 

It practiced Marxist socialism - workers of the world unite - that's socialism.

 

 

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), Rus. Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik, former republic. It was established in 1922 and dissolved in 1991. The Soviet Union was the first state to be based on Marxist socialism (see also Marxism; communism

[TBird]

DEE - Remember when OBY threatened to shut down the gov't for Christmas if he

didn't get his way with congress as President.

 

 

Barack Obama promises to shut down the government for Christmas

 

 

 

 

That's the truth, not a spin.

 

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2015/10/02/barack-obama-shutdown-government-christmas/

[dc.]

DEE - Do you know what the USSR MEANT.Socialist is in the name of their country.

 

It practiced Marxist socialism - workers of the world unite - that's socialism.

 

 

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), Rus. Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik, former republic. It was established in 1922 and dissolved in 1991. The Soviet Union was the first state to be based on Marxist socialism (see also Marxism; communism

 

There is no "spin" here.

 

Marxist Socialism (also known as Communism) and Democratic Socialism are very simply different things. Period.

 

The US is a democratic republic. The UK is a democratic republic. Yet one is presidential and one is parliamentary. Similar names. Different things.

 

The Nazis were also, by name, "socialists." But Hitler simply added the word because he knew it would attract people.

 

Bottom line - it is not "socialism" that has failed. It is Communism (Marxist Socialism) that has failed. Democratic (Revisionist, Evolutionary Socialism in the vain of Eduard Bernstein) has not failed but is thriving around the world.

 

You still refuse to address the most basic point here... how are Britain, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland... surviving and thriving under such BRUTAL, HORRIBLE, OPPRESSIVE, FAILING SOCIALIST REGIMES?!?

 

gtfo.

[dc.]

DEE - Remember when OBY threatened to shut down the gov't for Christmas if he

didn't get his way with congress as President.

 

 

Barack Obama promises to shut down the government for Christmas

 

 

 

 

That's the truth, not a spin.

 

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2015/10/02/barack-obama-shutdown-government-christmas/

 

Oh, RedState.com. Fun. The words "that's the truth, not a spin" next to a link from RedState.com - best post of the day.

 

Second, "threats" ... not the same as actually shutting it down and later forcing a mandatory sequester, which others DID in fact do.

 

Third, read Obama's quote - he doesn't say "I want what I want"... he says he wants a full budget. The US gov't has not had an official full budget in almost a decade. Blame goes on both sides. We've been funding via short-term holdovers called CRs (continuing resolutions) all this time. It's a large part of why we can't actually address our deficit and debt because no one actually tackles the problem - they can't agree on anything so they agree to just "stay the course" a few more months.

 

Obama's threat was "I will not sign another short-term CR" - not "give me everything I want in a budget or else."

 

 

 

I'm starting to see the Trump supporter here more and more. Words don't matter. Say what you want. Hear what you want. But ignore the reality of what words mean when the time comes to actually make a decision or take a side. Just assume that all words mean all things.

[TBird]

You failed to mention the PIGS which aren't thriving - Porgtugal, Ireland, Greece,

Spain and they aren't thriving and the others aren't doing that well.

[dc.]

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/255806-obama-i-will-not-sign-another-short-term-spending-bill

 

 

 

“I want to be very clear, I will not sign another shortsighted spending bill like the one Congress sent me this week,” he said. “We purchased ourselves 10 additional weeks. We need to use them effectively.”

Obama went on to call on policymakers to find a way to undo the sequester cuts currently in place, arguing they were holding back a U.S. economy that may be seeing its recovery faltering.

“These cuts that have been maintained have been keeping our economy from growing faster. It’s time to undo them,” he said.

“The bottom line is that Congress has to do its job,” he added.

 

Look at all those demands he is throwing in there.

His threat amounts to "pass a bill, any bill, that actually makes a full, annual budget a reality..."

[TBird]

THIS:

 

Oby threatens to shut down the gov't

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/09/why-not-let-obama-shut-down-the-government.php

[dc.]

You failed to mention the PIGS which aren't thriving - Porgtugal, Ireland, Greece,

Spain and they aren't thriving and the others aren't doing that well.

 

Sure, but are they failing because of democratic socialism or are their economies a bit different from ours?

 

Is our economy, in its makeup, more like Greece or like Germany? Spain or France?

 

Hint: Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland - they have long been agricultural and tourist economies. They have never been industrial economies.

 

It's not that democratic socialist policies are failing them... it's that their economies at large are failing them.

 

(fun side note - all four PIGS countries have higher life expectancies than the US)

[dc.]

THIS:

 

Oby threatens to shut down the gov't

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/09/why-not-let-obama-shut-down-the-government.php

 

Funny how you AGAIN cite a story that doesn't actually have the Obama threat in it.

 

It includes Cruz's response to Obama saying "I want a full budget." But none of the words in that entire piece belong to Obama.

[dc.]

In the United States, we spent 16.9% of our GDP on healthcare in 2014. The next highest was Netherlands at 11.6%. The OECD average is under 10%. Spain and Greece spent about 9.4% of their GDP on healthcare.

 

And yet, in the US, life expectancy is 78. In almost all other OECD nations, especially in Europe, it is over 80. In Spain, it is 82.

 

And best of all... they're getting better and better in the last 30 years while we are, well, not. In OECD nations, life expectancy has increased on average by 5-7 years. In the US, it has only increased by about 3 years. (over the last 30).

 

Yay us!

 

http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/Briefing-Note-GREECE-2014.pdf

 

http://www.oecd.org/unitedstates/Briefing-Note-UNITED-STATES-2014.pdf

[TBird]

Here's your own liberal CNBC link talking about Greece. Before the Civil War here

in 1860, the South had the world's 4th largest economy and it was primarily

agriculture. When the Civil War started they had hardly any manufacturing plants

for weapons like artillery while Pittsburgh alone had several that built the guns that

killed over 16,000 confederates in 15 mins while attacking Seminary Ridge in Gettysburg.

 

 

As far as life expectancy, my friend's father just died at 98, my uncles died at 93 and

91 and my mom is 90. Another friend's mom was 91 and another pal's dad is 95 so

the people I know are doing well. My lung doc said I wouldn't make 65 because I had

the worse lungs in his office. I fired him when I made it.

 

I'll take you to meet my mom and her friends, all over 90 including 1 or 2 over 100.

There's 30 people on that floor and I can show you some more. Just visit any

home.

 

People are living longer, at least all the ones I know and love.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/01/greek-disaster-is-all-about-socialism.html

[TBird]

Here's a big piece on socialism's decline in Europe and specifically one of those

manufacturing countries you talked about and a large quote from

your liberal NY TIMES.

 

This is not good for socialism.

 

 

http://csis.org/blog/socialism-way-out-europe-after-german-vote-say-us-and-european-media

[dc.]

Ok. I'm done with this one.

 

1. CNBC - liberal or not, who cares - the "article" is a commentary by a single person. It's not a "report" - it's an opinion. That's why there's the blue box under the title that says "Commentary." The commentary, by the way, blames Greek pension plans for public workers.

 

2. If I were to argue it, it was Greece's corruption, especially in its taxation policy, that made it run out of money. And of course that they had an economy that couldn't handle what they were selling. We have an economy that can handle it. In fact, many would argue, we need to - as the healthcare costs reports above note. Basic analysis by all sides shows that a single payer system here could REDUCE costs for most people, help the economy, etc etc. Yes, we'd likely have to raise taxes in the range of 2-5% over a period of time, but the savings to your wallet would total more than that. The point is, it is possible to provide social services and maintain a healthy economy. The fact that Greece did not because of lying, corruption and fraud, is not proof of a poison system.

 

3. Yes, in 1860, prior to the industrialization of the 1870s-WWI, when almost all economies in the world were agrarian... the US Confederacy had the 4th largest economy in the world. Congrats! Now, of course, 150 years later, successful and large economies are no longer agrarian. I am surprised I had to write that sentence.

 

 

The Economist on the crisis: "Debt in these countries has become a burden not because of government profligacy but because each enjoyed a decade of low interest rates and was then hit by the financial crisis. Easy credit fuelled debt in households and the financial sector. The European Central Bank oversaw a binge of cross-border lending. In the crisis unemployment and hardship have deepened, increasing the bill for welfare. Some countries, such as Ireland and Spain, have needed to find money to prop up their banks. These new expenses fell on the state just when tax receipts collapsed—catastrophically in countries that had seen a property boom."

 

Oh, and this one: "First things first, Greece is not a socialistic country — though it did recently elect the left-wing Syriza party to office, which explains the current standoff between Greece and the neoliberal Troika. The reality is, compared to other European countries, its social expenditure-to-GDP level does not even make in the top ten list. France, Finland, and Belgium spend the highest social expenditure-to-GDP levels, according to the OECD, while even Germany, which has been the foremost advocate of austerity, had a higher social expenditure-to-GDP level than Greece in 2014, as well as in 2009. Furthermore, many of these high social expenditure countries, such as Denmark, Norway, and Sweden, have significantly lower debt-to-GDP rates than the United States.

High social expenditure, or what O’Reilly calls “socialistic policies,” cannot be blamed for what is happening in Greece, because countries with more comprehensive welfare programs and higher social expenditure, like in Scandinavia, are fiscally healthy.

The true problem with Greece is as much cultural as it is economic, and the problem of corruption runs deep. Greece has a very long history of corruption and tax evasion, going back to its four century rule under the Ottoman Empire."

[dc.]

Here's a big piece on socialism's decline in Europe and specifically one of those

manufacturing countries you talked about and a large quote from

your liberal NY TIMES.

 

This is not good for socialism.

 

 

http://csis.org/blog/socialism-way-out-europe-after-german-vote-say-us-and-european-media

 

Your lack of understanding is impressive.

 

This article is about political parties who align as officially being "socialist" and their election losses.

 

But, of course, you ignore that the winners in these elections - the more "conservative" groups - are still socially democratic. They are not repealing or even proposing to change universal healthcare. In fact, even though the Conservative Party has been in power for several years in the UK now, ... what exactly has changed in their "socialist" medicine and welfare programs? Nothing.

 

This article is from 2009. Since then, of course, France elected a socialist president (Hollande) and socialist parties have come roaring back in many places. Angela Merkel, for example, is still in power in Germany now 7 years later.

Oh, and I thought you'd like this, from your article:

 

Too few analysts, however, note that the defeat of the SPD (Germany’s Social Democratic Party) was matched by a decline in support for Merkel’s Christian Democrats (CDU/CSU) and big swings away from the two main parties toward both right and left.

But parties to the left of the Social Democrats, the Left Party (heir of the former East German Communist Party) and the pro-environmental, internationalist Greens, made significant gains. It is an over-simplification to regard the elections as simply a huge setback for socialism, when the vote was just as much a reaction against the centrist “Grand Coalition” of Christian Democrats and Social Democrats that has governed Germany for the past four years.

 

[dc.]

The end.

 

I am not a liberal, by the way. I have some liberal views, certainly, though I am not a fan of the label and I don't affiliate. The primary liberal view is a healthcare system that provides for everyone. Right now we ration healthcare by those who can afford it which I think is a moral failing. So the view there isn't even really economic or political, it's moral and religious.

[papasmurfbell]

Here's your own liberal CNBC link talking about Greece. Before the Civil War here

in 1860, the South had the world's 4th largest economy and it was primarily

agriculture. When the Civil War started they had hardly any manufacturing plants

for weapons like artillery while Pittsburgh alone had several that built the guns that

killed over 16,000 confederates in 15 mins while attacking Seminary Ridge in Gettysburg.

 

 

As far as life expectancy, my friend's father just died at 98, my uncles died at 93 and

91 and my mom is 90. Another friend's mom was 91 and another pal's dad is 95 so

the people I know are doing well. My lung doc said I wouldn't make 65 because I had

the worse lungs in his office. I fired him when I made it.

 

I'll take you to meet my mom and her friends, all over 90 including 1 or 2 over 100.

There's 30 people on that floor and I can show you some more. Just visit any

home.

 

People are living longer, at least all the ones I know and love.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/01/greek-disaster-is-all-about-socialism.html

CNBC is about as liberal as the Heritage Foundation. They are a Wall St mouth piece. They hate left leaning things.

[dc.]

I am happy your family is living longer. I know many people living long lives as well.

 

Our next lesson though will be in statistics. Americans, as a population, don't live as long as others in similar economies. Period.

[thundercleetz]

Ugh this topic disintegrated quickly.

[dc.]

Ugh this topic disintegrated quickly.

Spring break. Too much time on my hands.

 

We'll restart on primary coverage.

[TBird]

DEE - In 1860 the south was just one section of the union.

 

The north was industrialized. Baltimore was famous for it's ships which is why the British

attacked Ft McHenry.

 

Did you not hear of the Industrial Revolution with trains and stuff. England was large on that.

 

In the early 1800s there were the Napoleanic Wars and a lot of artillery built in European towns

that killed millions of people. They werent agrarian.

[TBird]

Your just in denial about Greece's socialism. Youre the first person I've ever seen arguing that Greece

isn't socialistic.

 

You can't even agree that the Soviet Union was socialistic under Marxism.

 

CNBC is part of NBC which is as liberal as it can get except maybe MSNBC.

 

Is there any doubt who Williams voted for, or Dan Rather formerly of CBS after getting fired for

false stories.

[thundercleetz]

Spring break. Too much time on my hands.

 

We'll restart on primary coverage.

Haha. I've enjoyed your posts. I won't name names (or one name), but there is a right and respectful way to present your point of view or to express disagreement, and in this topic we were doing a really good job of it until a few days ago. I feel bad that you had to respond, but I enjoyed your history lesson

 

Through all of that, there are some really important topics that you touched upon which are equally as important as the primaries. In particular: the role of debt in an economy, China's growth rate, health care, etc. So much I would like to add to the conversation. I'll try and add a post later