Stink goes off on Lamar, some what

[tsylvester]

Frankly I think his remarks are over-blown. He doesn't really go off on Lamar so kuch as on the fans and some media members who claim the Ravens have/are holding Lamar back by not giving him legit weapons.

I like Stink, funny guy, knows the game, knows how to speak the game. His remarks are correct, as are some of them spewed by those he is "dissing". Yes, the Ravens as we know all too well have had issues drafting top wide outs, even more so in developig them over the years. But they have also tried really hard, especially after drafting Lamar, to draft the right guys.

It's an age old arguement, it is either the qb or the receivers...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/have-the-ravens-not-given-lamar-jackson-enough-offensive-weapons-former-super-bowl-champion-calls-bulls/

The excuses are running thin for Lamar Jackson and the Baltimore Ravens in the eyes of three-time Super Bowl champion Mark Schlereth. The former Broncos great turned NFL analyst recently put Jackson in the crosshairs, specifically dismissing the idea that the Ravens have not given him weapons throughout his career.

While highlighting how many weapons the Ravens have brought in throughout Jackson's tenure, he also noted that it's on the two-time NFL MVP to help develop those players into viable contributors.

"I do not want to hear from all of you out there that are telling me that Lamar Jackson, 'Well, they don't get him weapons,'" Schlereth said on The Stinkin Truth podcast. "How many first-round wide receivers do you need to draft? 'Well, they're not drafting the right one.' Well, you're not developing them. How do you develop them? Your quarterback has a long way to go in developing wide receivers, so I don't want to hear that bullshit from you anymore or any of you Baltimore fans. I'm tired of it."

 

[papasmurfbell]

I was listening to 1057 all day.  While this comment came up I just recalled him saying Ngata being lazy before the draft.  IF I ever had the chance to debate him I would throw that in his face and say he has no idea what he is saying. 

That being said a broken clock is correct twice a day.

[tsylvester]

Nobody is right about players all of the time. Ngata in college would take tons of plays off, so I get what Stink was saying about him.

Lamar does have some issues, timing throws, some based on lack of trust, some on his inability to read defenses quickly. Of course his problems throwing deep and along the sidelines, so there are issues that are on Lamar, not rhe receivers.

What is on them is their lack of running proper routes, too quickly, too slowly, not good out of breaks. Not giving enough space along the sidelines or not running the deep over routes properly.

Some of that is on the coaches, but most is on the receivers, game speed has confused them. So are just bad drafting, I mean how many left here and went on to be solid starters for other teams? No many, that were drafted.

But comparing what Roger's has done or Maholmes with less drafted wideouts is a bit of a stretch, no far, but a bit.

[papasmurfbell]

At Oregon he was taking double and many times triple teems.  They simply lacked enough front 7 talent to give him more even matchups.

No your 2nd paragraph is spot on.  This is what happens when you are allowed to coast on talent and not develop enough skill.   Take the AFCC game when he forced it into a triple team going for likely.  Bateman was wide open.  He simply did not go through his progressions to find an open man.  That is a Lamar problem.  I dont see it getting better.  With last years tape I see a drop off like 2020 was.  Hell with the weight loss it could be more like 21 or 22.  That speed has already started to erode away.  When him breaking is not a real threat defenses will pick at his bones.

[tsylvester]

I'm not sure I agree there papa. I think there were enough signs in the regular season, even in the playoff game against Houston when he did throw. Of him slowing down, making good reads. Getting the ball out so his receivers could make plays.

I think a 2nd year in this system, especially with the speed of a receiver I think will make a big difference, that we see him come full circle.

I don't know if he will ever be a great deep thrower, some guys just never get that touch of dropping dimes deep down field. But he can improve and I expect him too this season

[papasmurfbell]

Speed doesnt matter with Lamar unless its in the middle.  Likely is fast but he cant sniff a ball unless he is in that traditional TE spot while Andrews is out.  Lamar basically looks to 2 spots and he is done doing his progressions.  He has never been asked to make progressions across the entire field so he doesnt now.  This goes back to college coaches not developing players bc they are only paid to win.  

I agree that you dont have to be a deep thrower to be great.  You have Brees or Tua who get their guys the ball short in a position to get lots of yac.  The problem is you have to have timing and touch.  Lamar lacks there too.  Like Flucko Lamar will not throw guys open.  HE waits for you to be open or forces a ball into a triple covered guy going for a wish and a prayer.

[tsylvester]

Yeah, in college, most kids are taught to read the field, how the defense aligns to the formation, which will leave an area of the field open, so they then throw to the area rather the man.

This is one big reason why so many great college qbs fail in the NFL.

I agree about Lamar but in his defense, he has only had time to make 1 or 2 reads before the line collapses. Last year was the first year where he made the conscious effort to buy time and look for open men.

He does still tend to rely on certain players, first, if they, Andrews, Likely, and "panic" if they are not open.

Monken knows how to use speed to the advantage of the offense so I expect Walker to get a lot of playing time, if anything, as a decoy to open things up. Teams will have to respect his blazing speed.

[papasmurfbell]

No.  There were times where Lamar had so much time because he kept stepping away from the pressure.  That one play where he was in the pocket for 10 seconds.  Of course that one was a successful completion but many of the others are not.  In the past after 2 seconds and nobody open he was gone.  Now he wants to wait but he still does not go through the progressions to find the open man.  He fixates on the areas he is comfortable looking for those 1 or 2 guys to get open for him.  

I agree on Monken and his ability to design offense.  But he has to have someone who is capable of executing' the plays and not just be fixated on what he does well.

[tsylvester]

Yeah, we talked about this last season. Lamar was clearly trying to be a pocket passer. He just never really got to the equality, for lack of a better word, of pass vs run, get those 8-12 yards.

This is what cost them in the championship game more than anything in my opinion.

I am looking forward to see if he learned this lesson, if he grows this season.

[papasmurfbell]

He’s 27.  You don’t grow in your ability.  You just see more and every way the d tries to trick you.  If you lack that innate skillset then why trick you?  I also am noticing the big back breaking runs are going away.  Last yr the long was 30 yds.  The average dropped to 5.5 per.  The sacks are way up.  He is still a fumbling machine.  The average per completion is only negligible better.  
 

all in all I look at what Lamar brings.  What he doesn’t.  Where he could get better which I see as limited.  Then the cost benefit analysis when it comes to the cap and all I see is yrs of middling around and being just an also ran.  I think this team has wasted way too many yrs and talent on lost causes while with a single roster tweak they could be getting Lombardi trophies.  Unfortunately they locked into Lamar so that continues for at least 3 more yrs.  But knowing how this franchise makes bad decisions they will ink him to a new deal in 26 when he has a cap hit of over 74.5 mil.  That yr he will eat up over 25% of the cap.  Or you eat that and say goodbye to likely, Wiggins, Andrew’s, and or roquan.

[tsylvester]

The fumbles do bother me, a lot. The big runs were nice but not needed. Just the pressure of running, forcing defenders to keep an eye out for him running.

If he just takes the 12 yard runs, combined with Henry's presence, that will open that pass over the backers in front of the safeties were Likely and Andrews do very well.

When you combine that with an over route by the speedster, if a safety stays down or comes down, Lamar will only need to hit on 1 out of 4 passes to keep the defende honest.

I agree, some, most qbs never develop passed what they are, but some do.

Just look at Josh Allen, I know 1 out of 100, but he was wildly inaccurate, yet he worked hard to to become one of the top passers.

Geno Smith, another who changed his future by working hard. It can happen.

[papasmurfbell]

I do not think Henry will be that good.  30 and so many carries.  I have seen this movie before and 9 times out of 10 its a tragedy.  If Lamar's legs to not scare defenses to death anymore they will sit back on him.  You are also assuming he will go through his progressions like a top of the mountain QB does.  Until I see him do it consistently he cant do it.  I have 6 yrs of sample set plus college to tell me its not in his ability.

Maybe Lamar can bounce around for a few yrs and develop.  BTW I do not see Allen as this great QB.  I am very curious to see what he can do with his 2 best targets gone.  Last yr their offense was failing and he turned into superman to run teams down.  That is not sustainable.  He will be on the street with Cam sooner rather than later.

[tsylvester]

I think the way that the Ravens rotate runningbacks will enable Henry to stay fresh and get the Ravens 2 years, good years, out of him.

[papasmurfbell]

Thats not what they signed him for.  They signed him as a 2 down at least 1100 about 15 TD year.  Right now they dont even have that rotation of backs you are talking about.  Also what Im hearing about the OL is quite worrisome.  All in all I see a down yr from 23.  That was the yr and they threw it away.  I expect a better KC and Hou who I expect to be in the AFCC.  Also if Burrows wrist is right Cincy will be much better.  There is no room for maybe this yr.