cmacarolle21 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I don't think that Leonhard is better then landry I think even though they play the same position they are different players. I have the feeling Leonhard plays with more intensity but, I think Landry is more talented. I'd like to see the 5 DB formation =] Quote
colincac Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I don't think that Leonhard is better then landry I think even though they play the same position they are different players. I have the feeling Leonhard plays with more intensity but, I think Landry is more talented. I'd like to see the 5 DB formation =] Now that's how we end this argument. :P Quote
dc. Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I didn't say they told the full story. However, I'd love for you to provide your evidence for the rest of the story. Oh, wait, you "have that feeling." Actually... here's how I'll end it... How many games did you tell me you missed this season again? 7? 9? More than that? I missed two - and saw at least half of both of them. It's not about a feeling... it's about what I have seen on the field from Leonhard. Actually seeing something makes it more than "just a feeling." Meanwhile... I could continue and go into the fact that "prototypically' Ray Lewis was too small for his position. And that, because tackles are not an official league stat, Ray's numbers say he is far from the best defensive player of the last 10 years. And yet, that is something I think we could all disagree with because sacks, interceptions and fumbles don't solely define a middle linebacker. Quote
5to85for6 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Landry is a stud, he was recieving such high praise from the coaching staff all through offseason up until he was injured for being the most motivated gym rat on the team. Odds are Leonhard is out just because wee dont have money for him. its a shame bc he is a huge part of this run we are having. I would love to see a 5 db formation but i know that it will not be our base D. maybr dawan can put on some mass and we could let him play LB. is that idea so farfetched? Quote
cmacarolle21 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 He'd have to put on what 15-20 pounds. I don't know how far fetched it is; would sound weird to be just because I don't think many of us have thought of that before. Essentially what Landry would be going if we had a 5 DB formation would be the same as a linebacker so I wouldn't consider it too far fetched. Maybe he should find a nice medium gain 10 pounds if were to do a 5 DB formation. Leonhard is under contract isn't he I don't think we have to worry about him going in free agency. Quote
ForceEight Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Actually... here's how I'll end it... How many games did you tell me you missed this season again? 7? 9? More than that? I missed two - and saw at least half of both of them. It's not about a feeling... it's about what I have seen on the field from Leonhard. Actually seeing something makes it more than "just a feeling." Meanwhile... I could continue and go into the fact that "prototypically' Ray Lewis was too small for his position. And that, because tackles are not an official league stat, Ray's numbers say he is far from the best defensive player of the last 10 years. And yet, that is something I think we could all disagree with because sacks, interceptions and fumbles don't solely define a middle linebacker. I missed seven games at original broadcast, but watched all but one of them sometime later during the week. Meanwhile, if you honestly want to use the greatest defensive player in NFL history as the atypical example, feel free, but we all know that there are prototypical sizes for each position for a reason. You are completely incorrect in stating that Lewis' numbers say he's far from the best; that's simply stretching your argument way too far, buddy. He consistently is in the top ten for tackles, and his sacks and interceptions bring further merit to his skill. That's not my argument, though, and it's not yours. You are suggesting that Leonhard has some type of fundamental motivation or emotional skill that makes the players around him better. You're also suggesting, then, that Landry doesn't. And that you're somehow able to distinguish this when no one else can. Ignore all the other thing I said earlier, and prove to me how this is the case. Prove to me how Leonhard makes the players around him better, and how Landry doesn't. You certainly can't use statistics as reasoning, here, because they tell a different tale. I look forward to your reply. Quote
thundercleetz Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I missed seven games at original broadcast, but watched all but one of them sometime later during the week. Meanwhile, if you honestly want to use the greatest defensive player in NFL history as the atypical example, feel free, but we all know that there are prototypical sizes for each position for a reason. You are completely incorrect in stating that Lewis' numbers say he's far from the best; that's simply stretching your argument way too far, buddy. He consistently is in the top ten for tackles, and his sacks and interceptions bring further merit to his skill. That's not my argument, though, and it's not yours. You are suggesting that Leonhard has some type of fundamental motivation or emotional skill that makes the players around him better. You're also suggesting, then, that Landry doesn't. And that you're somehow able to distinguish this when no one else can. Ignore all the other thing I said earlier, and prove to me how this is the case. Prove to me how Leonhard makes the players around him better, and how Landry doesn't. You certainly can't use statistics as reasoning, here, because they tell a different tale. I look forward to your reply. PWND!!! Sike, I didn't read anything but the first and last sentence. Quote
SpearSrai Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Apparently James Harrison and London Fletcher aren't the physical prototype either. I wonder if they know this. Quote
dc. Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Well first, Ray is not prototypical in his size for an ILB. He was devalued at draft time- much like Emmitt Smith- because he was too small. And did you not read the part where I mentioned that tackles are not a real star - really they aren't. And outside of tackles, ray's numbers are not enough to make him best player. Meanwhile, my argument was not that Leonhard makes people better through motivation or emotion, but through his play. His ability to complete his assignment, beat his man, and fill gaps makes everyone else better - and look better. Quote
yagersports Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Wow, I can't believe this thread has life just a few days before we play in the AFC Championship game! Comon, offseason talk is for Browns and Bengals fans! ;) haha Quote
dc. Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Well so long as people want to leave on of this defenses biggest contributors behind next year.... Quote
ForceEight Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Meanwhile, my argument was not that Leonhard makes people better through motivation or emotion, but through his play. His ability to complete his assignment, beat his man, and fill gaps makes everyone else better - and look better. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the evidence that (since this is your only argument) Leonhard is somehow better at this than Landry. Quote
SpearSrai Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Wow, I can't believe this thread has life just a few days before we play in the AFC Championship game! Comon, offseason talk is for Browns and Bengals fans! ;) haha Smart management knows that there is no offseason... you're always planning for the future, even when you're winning. That's how you build dynasties. Quote
SpearSrai Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the evidence that (since this is your only argument) Leonhard is somehow better at this than Landry. We would all need to sit in a room with a giant projector and go through the coaches tape one play at a time. That's the only way to really break down football 'statistics'. Just assume that all of the answers you seek are hidden in the one game that you missed this season. It will be known as the "Missing Tape", and it will never be discovered. Quote
thundercleetz Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I have a solution to this debate: trade/cut Ed Reed, put Leonhard at FS next to Landry. Problem solved, everyone happy! Quote
SpearSrai Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I have a solution to this debate: trade/cut Ed Reed, put Leonhard at FS next to Landry. Problem solved, everyone happy! We can't cut him outright, for cap reasons, but I agree that we need to trade him. He's really holding us back on D... zero interceptions against Kerry Collins is unacceptable. If he doesn't have at least 2 INT's and a fumble recovery or sack this weekend, he's as good as gone. Quote
ForceEight Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I have a solution to this debate: trade/cut Ed Reed, put Leonhard at FS next to Landry. Problem solved, everyone happy! Trade Reed for Peyton Manning, put Leonhard at FS, then put both Flacco and Smith out at WR where they belong. Problem solved! Quote
SpearSrai Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Trade Reed for Peyton Manning, put Leonhard at FS, then put both Flacco and Smith out at WR where they belong. Problem solved! I would put Smith in the backfield, and run the wildcat. But then Peyton would be at WR, and Flacco would... be the option-man at RB. Quote
ForceEight Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Peyton can't be a WR. He runs like my great-grandmother. Quote
SpearSrai Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Peyton can't be a WR. He runs like my great-grandmother. I guess we'd better just hold onto Reed then. Quote
thundercleetz Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I guess we'd better just hold onto Reed then. Yeah, good idea. :lol: Quote
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