thundercleetz Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Really interesting article. I will admit, I am not that well versed on those tax laws mentioned in the article. But then again, most of America is not, which is the point of the article I am assuming. The only thing I am versed about is this section: RETIREMENT TRICKSRomney has stockpiled as much as $87 million in his IRA – even though contributions to such retirement accounts are limited to just $30,000 a year. "Congress never intended IRAs to be used to accumulate that kind of wealth," says Wilkins. To get around the limits, Romney appears to have directed his IRA to invest in a special class of Bain stock. By assigning an artificially low value to the shares, Bain ensured that any returns would be wildly inflated – as much as 30 times the initial investment. By buying rigged stock with his limited IRA dollars, Romney got to reap the bonanza tax-free. Nothing illegal about this. Apple and Google employees from the 90s probably have IRAs just as large. These people took a risk, these type of investments starting have just as much bust potential as boom potential. As far as the special class of stock, that is nothing out of the ordinary. Anyways, the money is in an IRA so it is tax deferred. The IRS will get more than their fair share when Romney turns 70 1/2 and has to take a good portion out. Anyways, I digress. That is just one small section of a large article. I really haven't heard too much negative publicity lately on Romney's tax records. I would have thought it would have been plastered all over commercials this close to the election. I guess people either don't care or the DNC doesn't think it would be an effective tactic. If you guys really want to see something interesting, papa and I's guy Gary Johnson is debating tonight. His FAIR Tax system is very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Except that the way Mitt and others at Bane do it is jobbing the system. If I understand this correctly if a person contributes a differed value bond or stock they pay only the taxes that it is worth at the time. Mitt and co put in something they know will have huge value when they want to put value to it. There is no risk on their part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Except that the way Mitt and others at Bane do it is jobbing the system. If I understand this correctly if a person contributes a differed value bond or stock they pay only the taxes that it is worth at the time. Mitt and co put in something they know will have huge value when they want to put value to it. There is no risk on their part. Sort of. You're thinking of a Roth IRA it sounds. Being that the Roth vehicle was only created in 1997 I doubt this enormous IRA that Romney has is a Roth. Roth IRA's also have income limits, I think anyone over $105K (for 2012) is ineligible to contribute. With a traditional IRA the cost basis does not matter. So it does not matter if the original value of the investment was low. Whatever goes into the account is tax deferred (once again unless you make over a certain amount of money then you have to pay taxes up front), and you're only taxed on the amount of what you pull out. The money has to start coming out when you're 70 1/2 (the rate is currently around 6% a year). It is not jobbing the system. There are plenty of small business owners around the country who invest their retirement accounts in their own business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcrow Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 you're so bain i bet you think this song is about you] you're soo bane i'm glad i can livewithout you without you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPPT1974 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well it seems that the candidates and rich people aren't worry about taxes like us normal folks as they say. Should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=9022Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 http://therealnews.c...74&jumival=9022Amazing. That's awesome. I would have done the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Except that is what Newt was talking about. That is not capitalism. That is worse than what a Gordon Gecko was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Except that is what Newt was talking about. That is not capitalism. That is worse than what a Gordon Gecko was doing. Except it still is a capitalist system and because that is the route the world has taken with its development we can not flip-flop between it and expect the players to be transparent. Capitalism by nature encourages its players to get as much as they can. So when you mix too much government intervention with a capitalist system, something like this happens. Pick one or the other and stick with it. What happened was 100% legal. If Romney does not buy those shares someone else does and because a millionaire. The concept is no different than the privitazation of the Soviet Union. If Mikkhail Prokhorov doesn't buy Norilsk Nickel then some other Russian oligarch does and they become rich beyond their wildest dreams. That aspect of competition and who is the quickest to realize a new way to make money is what capitalism essentially is, whether it is "morally" right or wrong. The system encourages "voltures" as the article describes these people. Some people deliberately look for disasters around the world so they can take advantage of the situation. Some people made millions off of 9/11 by investing in military technology or shorting airplane carrier stock. If someone is losing money, then that means someone on the other end is usually making money. It is what it is. More than anything of what I took away from this article: it makes the government look like a bunch of dumbasses for creating such a situation. Some of the language in the article almost implies the government is an innocent, helpless victim and Romney as being "too smart". I mean I guess the government should have just shutdown the stock exchange for a month while this bailout was being processed, just to make sure no one made a large amount of money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Papa, here is my point. I think the whole Romney tax thing is as overplayed as Trump asking for Obama's birth certificate. Like the article says (and to even my surprise), not even the Democrats are attacking Romney on this issue because there many capitalist, billionaire, democrats out there as well. Romney released the required tax forms to run for president. If he doesn't want to release anything more, well that's his right. Howard Stern would not release any tax returns in his run for Mayor of NYC. He actually dropped out because the requirement. I am pretty sure if Romney did anything illegal like Gordon Gekko, the same federal government who spent millions on prosecuting Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds for steriod use would try and suck every dime out of Romney. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 In the current environment what Gecko did would be legal. They have changed the laws to allow anything under the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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