papasmurfbell Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 They will cast off more old men after the season. It is obvioous that they are retooling now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Well had they done with Ngata what they did with Webb his cap number would be lower. Stuff like that would allow them to be in a better position. Not all agents and players are receptive to such deals. If fans are able to realize that you can sign a player for a cheaper contract earlier in a rookie deal, don't you think players and agents realize that as well? I know it is a different sport, but Scott Boras famously said it is a rookie mistake for an agent of a big time to allow his client to sign a contact early to give up a free agent opportunity. Don't get me wrong, I loved that we signed Webby to a contract a year before he hit free agency. Honestly though if I was Webb, I would have waited a year and made a boat load more in the open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 That is the risk of waiting. Webb already had one bad injury. If he blew out his other knee this yr he would get bubkus on the market. Baseball iis not really a contact sport so the risk is far lower waiting for the market. I would ink guys after their 2 season if at all possible. If they had done that with Haloti it would have been before his first PB selection. They may have gotten him for about $4-6 mil a yr. Now he is about a 8-9 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 That is the risk of waiting. Webb already had one bad injury. If he blew out his other knee this yr he would get bubkus on the market. Baseball iis not really a contact sport so the risk is far lower waiting for the market. I would ink guys after their 2 season if at all possible. If they had done that with Haloti it would have been before his first PB selection. They may have gotten him for about $4-6 mil a yr. Now he is about a 8-9 guy. There is certainly a degree of risk, but there are a lot of players that are willing to risk it and wait until free agency. And who knows what the agent is telling his players. Anyways, my point is we have no way of knowing if Haloti, or any other young player for that matter, would be receptive to signing early. We also have no way of knowing whether or not we have approached players about such a deal. I would be willing to bet it happens more than you think. I believe agents are very willing to say "well we could get this on the market" and that's why deals do not get done. You hit the nail on the head though, Webb was definitely a good candidate to sign a deal early. He had a major injury in the past, and we is a guy who loved playing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Ray was mad when he had to go into FA. As Deion said if they really wanted you you wouldn't make it to FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Ray was mad when he had to go into FA. As Deion said if they really wanted you you wouldn't make it to FA. Exactly my point every situation is different. But I think we agree, Ozzie needs to do a better job of identifying players who could be good prospects for signing early. Every young star won't want to do it, but Ozzie can definitely do a better job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagersports Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I disagree with the assessment that "if they really wanted you" you wouldn't make it to FA. A team can absolutely want a player however there are times when they simply can't pay the price the player is going to demand on the market. For example, hypothetically speaking, say we didn't sign Yanda to a big contract. Say we didn't have a Guard signed long term. I absolutely believe the FO thought highly of Grubbs and would have given him a long term deal. Instead, the way the cards fell, given that Grubbs and Yanda have a very similar skill set, Yanda got paid first. As a result the FO just couldn't pay the money Grubbs could get. I think the FO definitely valued Grubbs, they just couldn't justify that much money in Guards. There's a situation where I'm sure the FO has Grubbs rated very highly, but the right situation just didn't present itself. With Ray, they absolutely wanted Ray.....they just didn't want Ray to set his value and they didn't want Ray to feel insulted by a low offer. Instead they let the market establish Ray's value and they paid up because they wanted him. This way everyone wins. If Ray is really chasing the money he could be free to go elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Pay to keep the players that they draft and develop because they do such a great job at drafting and developing players. One of the great joys for me as a Ravens fan has been to watch great incredilbe players. Getting them is a front office success. It also comes with a price.JO, Ray Lewis, Ray Rice, Jamal, McAlister, Boulware, Ed Reed, Sharpe, Woodson, Stover, Suggs, Ngata to name a few. The top 100 NFL player list, voted on by the players, has 5 Ravens in the top 22 players!To get a perspective on what an incredible accomplishment that is, begin by being aware that there are 1,692 players.That's 5 players in the top 1.3%It comes with a price. Those 5 elevate those around them to play at their highest level....it shows on gameday. Pay Them. I don't want the Browns roster.Or the Eagles or Mexico's Team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagersports Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Pay to keep the players that they draft and develop because they do such a great job at drafting and developing players. One of the great joys for me as a Ravens fan has been to watch great incredilbe players. Getting them is a front office success. It also comes with a price.JO, Ray Lewis, Ray Rice, Jamal, McAlister, Boulware, Ed Reed, Sharpe, Woodson, Stover, Suggs, Ngata to name a few. The top 100 NFL player list, voted on by the players, has 5 Ravens in the top 22 players!To get a perspective on what an incredible accomplishment that is, begin by being aware that there are 1,692 players.That's 5 players in the top 1.3%It comes with a price. Those 5 elevate those around them to play at their highest level....it shows on gameday. Pay Them. I don't want the Browns roster.Or the Eagles or Mexico's Team... I agree completely. That's why I'm inclined to give passes on the things that don't work out. The FAs, Cam, etc. Take the good with the bad when there's alot more good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Exactly my point every situation is different. But I think we agree, Ozzie needs to do a better job of identifying players who could be good prospects for signing early. Every young star won't want to do it, but Ozzie can definitely do a better job. Exactly Pay to keep the players that they draft and develop because they do such a great job at drafting and developing players. One of the great joys for me as a Ravens fan has been to watch great incredilbe players. Getting them is a front office success. It also comes with a price.JO, Ray Lewis, Ray Rice, Jamal, McAlister, Boulware, Ed Reed, Sharpe, Woodson, Stover, Suggs, Ngata to name a few. The top 100 NFL player list, voted on by the players, has 5 Ravens in the top 22 players!To get a perspective on what an incredible accomplishment that is, begin by being aware that there are 1,692 players.That's 5 players in the top 1.3%It comes with a price. Those 5 elevate those around them to play at their highest level....it shows on gameday. Pay Them. I don't want the Browns roster.Or the Eagles or Mexico's Team...Not every player. Cmac should have never been brought back. He was a head case drunk and the team knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 He was a shut down corner papa...drunk or high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Yeah and if I remember correctly he was given a 6 yr extesion. Of that extension he was only good for about 1.5 yrs of it. So the Ravens wasted a bunch of money on a guy who was better to dump off onto another team to be their headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagersports Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Yeah and if I remember correctly he was given a 6 yr extesion. Of that extension he was only good for about 1.5 yrs of it. So the Ravens wasted a bunch of money on a guy who was better to dump off onto another team to be their headache. I think you expect the FO to never make a mistake. This is unrealistic and in no way can be reasonably used to evaluate a football team or their operations. Cmac was a nasty corner in the NFL and if you think there are no other players in the NFL getting lucrative extensions that enjoy "partying" you're sorely mistaken. Many of them not only get the contract but fullfill them despite their "partying" ways. Should of, would of, could of is all good and well, but should only be discussed in light of an organization of say......The Raiders, Browns, Bengals etc. Those franchises are routinely making bad calls and justly should be questioned. The Ravens however have a proven track record of success in everything they do. So therefore questioning their moves makes little sense since inevitably they probably made the best decision possible given all their variables AT THE TIME OF THE DECISION. Wouldn't it be more productive and meaningful for us to talk about things going forward? The future is bright, let's glass half full this $@#! and enjoy the ride instead of searching vainly for a disfunction that just doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 Yea papa...start looking up. You're missing out on way too much good stuff. "...so I'm getting a lawer because the Army and the NFL wouldn't take me..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I think you expect the FO to never make a mistake. This is unrealistic and in no way can be reasonably used to evaluate a football team or their operations. Cmac was a nasty corner in the NFL and if you think there are no other players in the NFL getting lucrative extensions that enjoy "partying" you're sorely mistaken. Many of them not only get the contract but fullfill them despite their "partying" ways. Should of, would of, could of is all good and well, but should only be discussed in light of an organization of say......The Raiders, Browns, Bengals etc. Those franchises are routinely making bad calls and justly should be questioned. The Ravens however have a proven track record of success in everything they do. So therefore questioning their moves makes little sense since inevitably they probably made the best decision possible given all their variables AT THE TIME OF THE DECISION. Wouldn't it be more productive and meaningful for us to talk about things going forward? The future is bright, let's glass half full this $@#! and enjoy the ride instead of searching vainly for a disfunction that just doesn't exist. No everyone will make a mistake. But there is soething to be said for calculated risk. Cmac was not wth the program when poor and hungry. Was he going to get on the same page being fat and happy? Ngata, Ray, and Reed are guys I would be willing to pay. They are pros who will always bust ass while out there. There are others who are paycheck players who you don't want around. The team has to ID them during their cheap yrs to know who to bring back. There is also standard punishment and wear and tear that has to go into deciding who to keep around and sign as FA's. My rule of thumb is a guy who would go well into their 30's except QB should not be inked to high priced deals. Also RB's are a dime a dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagersports Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 No everyone will make a mistake. But there is soething to be said for calculated risk. Cmac was not wth the program when poor and hungry. Was he going to get on the same page being fat and happy? Ngata, Ray, and Reed are guys I would be willing to pay. They are pros who will always bust ass while out there. There are others who are paycheck players who you don't want around. The team has to ID them during their cheap yrs to know who to bring back.There is also standard punishment and wear and tear that has to go into deciding who to keep around and sign as FA's. My rule of thumb is a guy who would go well into their 30's except QB should not be inked to high priced deals. Also RB's are a dime a dozen. Of which the Ravens do, and of which they make few mistakes, so once again, why concentrate on the few mistakes they make? Cmac I'm still not convinced is a mistake because of the variables at the time. And as I remember, Cmac was a worker despite his partying ways up until the coaching regime change. At that point, Cmac checked out. I'm not sure that the FO can calculate that. In any case, it makes little sense to argue shoulda, woulda, coulda with an organization that continues to succeed. This is what exists at the heart of the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 He was? He would seperate from the rest of the team. He never had to try hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) So Papa has a stiffy for the FO's handling of C-Mac....Who cares. it was 5 years AGO!!!!!! Edited July 2, 2012 by cravnravn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedsolo Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Flacco is the most important player on the Ravens moving forward. Anyone who thinks differently needs to re-examine the teams who have won the SB over the past couple of years. All of them have - what I would consider to be - elite QB's (Eli, Roethlisberger, Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rogers, etc). This isn't the 1980's (I wish someone would relay this info to Cam sometimes... ) where you can get to the SB with limited QB play. This is a passing league and Flacco has the arm and the talent to make every throw that a QB needs to make. I don't think he's worth top QB money, but I do think that a contract similar to what Eli got is in the ballpark (essentially a deal averaging $14-15mill per season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 So Papa has a stiffy for the FO's handling of C-Mac....Who cares. it was 5 years AGO!!!!!! It is one in an ongoing trend. Flacco is the most important player on the Ravens moving forward. Anyone who thinks differently needs to re-examine the teams who have won the SB over the past couple of years. All of them have - what I would consider to be - elite QB's (Eli, Roethlisberger, Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rogers, etc). This isn't the 1980's (I wish someone would relay this info to Cam sometimes... ) where you can get to the SB with limited QB play. This is a passing league and Flacco has the arm and the talent to make every throw that a QB needs to make. I don't think he's worth top QB money, but I do think that a contract similar to what Eli got is in the ballpark (essentially a deal averaging $14-15mill per season). I mostly agree. It should be $12-14 I think though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagersports Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Well I for one hope the trend continues because it's gotten us to the playoffs 4 years in a row. The AFC championship twice and one dropped pass from the Super Bowl. Oz is a mad genius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grow trend grow...Muhahahahaha. Some people always ice skating uphill haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 It will be great to always get to see the team that hoists the trophy but never be that team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 It will be great to always get to see the team that hoists the trophy but never be that team. You mean like Browns and Eagles fans? Only 18 teams have won a Super Bowl. That means 14 franchises haven't won one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yeah the eagles who are always the bridesmaid and never the bride. Hmmm. Maybe harbs did learn something in philthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagersports Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 So it's because Oz didn't address McAlister properly that Evans dropped the winning TD to send us to the Super Bowl. Insightful. You could have said the same thing about the Steelers and Coughlins Giants. The fact is in order to get that big trophy you have to keep having success. Increasing your chances of getting further in the playoffs. And finally, winning the Super Bowl isn't the only barometer for success. It's the end goal and that's where the eyes are all season, however success comes from consistency. Oz and co. provide that. I'm sure you'll have a one line response completely lacking in substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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