Another Wake Up Call

[vmax]

I know this isn't a happy, popular topic. I feel it needs to constantly be put in front of people and governments everywhere, in hope that one day soon it will sink in, that severe, constructive global action needs to take place now.

 

 

 

Top scientists urge cap on carbon emissions to limit climate change

The climate situation could get much worse, the scientists said: Past studies have suggested that a mean global temperature rise of 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) over pre-industrial levels would have dangerous, irreversible effects on sea levels and weather patterns. In the new report, experts estimate that 2-degree target would be reached when industrial carbon dioxide emissions add up to 1 trillion tons.

They say the running total, going from the 19th century to 2011, amounts to 531 billion tons. Thus, even at the current emission rate of roughly 10 tons per year, humanity would hit the 1-trillion-ton ceiling by 2060. And if carbon emissions continue to rise, as expected, the ceiling could be reached by the 2040s. Such projections are likely to spark calls for renewed negotiations on global greenhouse-gas limits.

The scientists said other measures to head off global warming — for example, sequestering carbon underground or pumping aerosols into the atmosphere to reduce sunlight — would have limited or unpredictable effects.

 

“Once again, the science grows clearer, the case grows more compelling, and the costs of inaction grow beyond anything that anyone with conscience or common sense should be willing to even contemplate,” Kerry said in the statement. “This isn’t a run of the mill report to be dumped in a filing cabinet. This isn’t a political document produced by politicians.”

“It’s science.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/extremely-likely-top-scientists-blame-mankind-more-clearly-ever-global-8C11274530?ocid=msnhp&pos=3

 

Drastic, positive Change can happen in a minute.

When America entered WW2 the government told Detroit to stop making cars period. Make tanks and planes.

The results speak for themselves and we adapted and survived.

[Oldschool739]

Where's Aunt Bea when you need her ????.....lol

[papasmurfbell]

When the people are drowning the leaders who lead us this way will swing from a rope.

[thundercleetz]

When the people are drowning the leaders who lead us this way will swing from a rope.

Until those same people realize that gas prices jump to $10 a gallon, they are forced to buy a $40k electric car, or hundreds of thousands coal miners in the Midwest are out of jobs crippling small economies. I completely agree with max, changes need to happen now before it's too late. However is the everyday working man ready to make that individual sacrifice? I don't think the average person could afford to do so. If these changes were feasible, they would have been done by now. There are too many outside variables involved, including large interest groups that have both parties by the balls.

 

IMO more investment should have been made in public infrastructure and transportation years ago when constructions costs were low. Now building rail systems from dense suburbs to even more dense cities is way too expensive. Imagine how different Baltimore would be if they built a metro system similar to DC back in the 70s? Metro lines expanding out to Columbia or Towson similar to DC going out to Laurel or Silver Spring. Most US cities squandered such opportunities. One thing Obama has done that I am a fan of is his transportation infrastructure match program providing incentive for start up infrastructure projects.

[papasmurfbell]

Do you believe people should pay the real costs of stuff?

[vmax]

Before I get into this, I'm as guilty as anybody as far as waking up and understanding the human impact on the ecology. I share the blame in wasting natural resources and polluting the atmosphere.

 

In a sense, it's too late now as far as how many people are going to be hurt economically. It will be everybody.

Here's the short story:

We attacked and raped this planet. To us, it was just a thing to be used. Not a living organism to which all life, our life, is connected.

Now it's getting sick....real sick and as it's life fades, so does ours.

We're in a fight for our lives, our children's lives and the lives of everybody on this planet.

But... we are asleep at the wheel and we have to wake up real fast before we hit the wall at 65 mph.

 

In WW2 Japan and the Nazi's couldn't get at mainland America. This will. We are going to experience real hard times....our children will.

This is WW3.

 

All is not lost if we move now. The US economy is good enough right now to invest in the solution, develop the technologies that can stem an almost unstoppable fate. These new technologies when shared with the world, can save our economy enough that we can still remain a relevant nation upon this earth.

 

We can come out of this just as strong as we emerged from WW2.

 

Or we can let somebody else develop the solutions and become a 3rd world country with a failed economy.

 

If the technologically advanced nations get together and pool all their resources and solve this quickly, then it could be one great future ahead.

[thundercleetz]

Max I'm impressed by your post and admire your compassion for the planet. However I just don't share your optimism for your our economy and the prospect of the world cooperating to tackle this enormous problem. Our budget is maxed out and our government is facing an imminent shutdown. Where will we come up with these resources to develop and employ such a large scale implementation? Print more money? If our politicians are pushing off the problem of social security to the next generation, you really think they will tackle a world wide problem with the environment?

 

As far as the rest of the world, the EU has its own monetary problems. We are really in no position to tell China to stop their coal and high emissions manufacturing as they go through their Industrial Age that we went through in the early 1900s. Not that China would listen anyways.

 

Any regulations placed on energy companies is going to have a direct windfall effect on is consumers. The question becomes: how much are you willing to personally sacrifice for this cause?

 

You make a great point about World War II. The reason US and Europe emerged strong from WWII was we were placed in a situation where action was required for survival. There's a reason why that generation is referred to as the greatest ever, they stepped up big time. With relation to the environment, one of two things will happen:

 

1. Technology will be developed where the cost of a large scale implementation will be significantly less expensive, and maybe even profitable.

2. The environment will be eroded so terribly that the world will be put into a situation where action is required for survival.

 

World leaders seem to be banking on a technological break through, or as with social security, have no problem dumping the problem on the next generation to deal with.

[papasmurfbell]

We do not pay the real costs of fossil fuels. Gas is subsitised. Refineries dump the costs of cancer patients around their facilities on the govt. If gas were really at the price with all the real costs it would be probably at least $15 a gal.

[RavenMad]

Whoever comes up with an effective Co2 atmosphere scrubber will end up being the richest person on earth.

 

That said, the earth is likely to run out of fossil fuels to burn in the next 30 years so we will be forced to change whether we want to or not for environmental reasons. There simply won't be any gas, oil or coal remaining so that will help the environment until they come up with some other planet killer.

[vmax]

Whoever comes up with an effective Co2 atmosphere scrubber will end up being the richest person on earth.

 

That said, the earth is likely to run out of fossil fuels to burn in the next 30 years so we will be forced to change whether we want to or not for environmental reasons. There simply won't be any gas, oil or coal remaining so that will help the environment until they come up with some other planet killer.

 

Within 10 years...that's not a long time...nobody will be able to afford to fly.

 

cleetz...nice post.

Yea...sadly...I don't expect our politicians to take action until New York, Florida and parts of Washington DC are under water. It will be too late then.

China can't get out of this one. They are under attack too. Their water supply will...evaporate. They could be the next Sahara desert along with a huge part of the USA. Billions of people will be displaced and all the world economies will fail...during our children's lifetime.

Our banks and insurance companies will crack under disaster relief efforts for our sea coasts. Then the government goes. You fill in the blanks.

 

So...the hardships that we all will endure today are only 10% of what they will be tomorrow.

 

 

Yes...I'm an optimist. The projected scenario does not have to be so severe if action is taken now.

Obviously I don't know how much money the solution to global warming would cost. That's why I thought the best solution would be for the world to pool their resources to solve a world problem. I'm sure governments are looking into that. They have to be...right? They friggn'n know the truth...I'm certain of that.

Local goverments are already looking into saving Ocean City, Miami Beach and NYC. They are using scientific projections. It's funny if it weren't so sad...they want to build walls to keep the water out, throw more soil on the ground as the water table rises, put buildings on stilts rather than solve what is causing the problem to begin with.

All that is wasted money.

Band aids for massive hemorrhaging.

[RavenMad]

They tried to do something about it and the US didn't agree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

[dc.]

Papa,

 

We certainly don't pay the real cost of anything - I was actually just teaching the concept of externalities to my economics classes. Baffling to them.

 

That said, hard to figure out how to force people to pay "full price" without some serious pain upfront. Just don't have the brainpower for answers at the moment.

[papasmurfbell]

Cut subsitdies. Push the ansilary costs onto business. Also make farm corps pay a living wage. When all that is done the costs will be passed down to the consumer. Now the people will demand higher pay for their work and you get a new equalibrium.

[dc.]

But the in between isn't that neat. Costs rise and we have to wait for our wages to rise. Meanwhile, rising wages will also push prices up.

 

And unless the distribution of wealth - especially via investment finances - shifts, we get very stuck. Corporations push dramatic profit regardless of broader social effects on behalf of investors.

[papasmurfbell]

Of course prices would go up. We don't pay the real costs of things. Basically we are proving that the US can't survive without something like slavery. We started with free labor. When that was outlawed we had sharecroping. Now we have undocumented workers who do the work below what is reasonable.

[dc.]

Papa, I am not complaining about prices, I am complaining about the gap that will always exist. And I'm not really against you or your view, I agree quite fully, but I just don't know how we get there with out tremendous damage along the way.

[thundercleetz]

Since we are on the topic of energy and non-renewable resources, I have always been a big fan of TDI vehicles. I think there is a lot of potential there for relatively easy widespread implementation at a low cost to consumers (prices are higher now but would drop in the future). Europe has adopted TDI in a lot of their cars. We certainly have the resources for large scale implementation of clean burning diesel fuel. However the question then becomes food production versus fuel production (TDI is essentially refined vegetable oil). We have already seen BMW and Audi (VW included) adopt TDI in the US. With all the fast food we have in this country I'm sure we could set up incentives for a vegetable oil recycling program.

[papasmurfbell]

Papa, I am not complaining about prices, I am complaining about the gap that will always exist. And I'm not really against you or your view, I agree quite fully, but I just don't know how we get there with out tremendous damage along the way.

I am not saying there will be some hard times gettingg to the end but in the long run I think it would work its way out.

[dc.]

I guess the question is how hard is too hard to survive?

 

But ultimately, starting small - with living wage laws and the like - would get us moving. Raise wages first, then reduce subsidies?

[papasmurfbell]

Totally agree. I would phase in all the changes I have stated. doing it all at once would be disasterous.