Players too soft or was Harbs too hard?

[tsylvester]

Cry me a river, I guess it is good they didn't play during the 60's, 70's, or even 80's. 

Ravens wide receiver Zay Flowers says he’s looking forward to a different approach to practices with new head coach Jesse Minter, who won’t break the team down the way Flowers says John Harbaugh did.

Flowers said on the 4th and South podcast that Harbaugh put the Ravens through contact practices as often as NFL rules allow, and that by the end of the season players were exhausted from the wear and tear on their bodies.

Full pads all the time,” Flowers said. “However many practices in pads you can get, every single one. We’re doing one-on-ones in Week 17. Week 17, we’re doing one-on-ones, everybody out there, we’re tired, we’re still going.”

Asked how the players manage that workload, Flowers answered, “We don’t.”

“That’s why we had a lot of injuries,” Flowers continued. “Because of how we practiced, how we went. The load was heavy.”

Flowers said that in his first conversation with Minter, who was a Ravens assistant before Flowers was drafted, he asked for reassurance that the team would be more cognizant of taking care of players’ bodies.

“Yeah, I talked to the new coach,” Flowers said. “He worked with Harbaugh in 2017, so he knows how it was, how we worked with Harbaugh. So he says, ‘You’re going to get your work, but it’s going to be a little easier on your body. You’re going to be fresher for the game.’ That was the first talk I had with him: How’s practice going to look?”

Ravens players will be glad to hear Flowers’ comments. Giants players may be in for a rude awakening.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/zay-flowers-john-harbaugh-made-ravens-practice-too-hard-jesse-minter-wont

[oldno82]

Actually, he may have a point but the real problem is the 17 game schedule, not the heavy practices. I personally think that when they went and extended from 14 games, that it was too long. And now they're talking about 18 games with more playoff games more international travel and the NFLPA is supposedly against that. 

But, I've heard this before and the players always go along in the end because it means more money for them. 

[tsylvester]

He only has a point if other teams, ones who win in the playoff and go on to win the Super Bowl, have softer practices.

We just do not know the answer to that right now.

[tsylvester]

Found this using the Google

Note that NFL regulations restrict full-pad practices to 14 in the regular season, meaning some claims about "always" wearing pads may refer to maximum allowable use of padded sessions rather than every single practice.
Other Teams/Approaches: In contrast, some teams use few or no padded practices during the regular season. For example, the Patriots did not practice in full pads after the regular season began in 2025, according to a Facebook post by New England Patriots Nation. 

[papasmurfbell]

The injuries went up the moment the players negotiated softer practice schedules.

[tsylvester]

14 total full pads practices, that is once per week for "most of the season"

If that is all they did, then complaining about once a week is ridiculous, and since that would leave 3 weeks of games with no pads allowed in the practice.

So yes, Flowers is a wilter, along with any other player complains about practice, Allen Iversons....

I'm all about recovery time for the players, takes 3-4 days after an NFL game, 5 for some older vets.

But the best way to get the rust off it sometimes to use a hammer...

Not that I want to defend Harbs

[oldno82]

1 hour ago, papasmurfbell said:

The injuries went up the moment the players negotiated softer practice schedules.

Yeah, I remember when that happened. But a 17 game schedule is too long too. 

[papasmurfbell]

No it’s not.  It’s not like there is a giant increase of late season injuries compared to the past.  I want 18.

[tsylvester]

Maybe not a plethora of injuries, but the quality of player is certainly way down. That is not just due to coaching, that is because of a lack of recovery time and extended play

[papasmurfbell]

I think the quality of player is down bc these kids are not taught in hs or college.  You have ol coming out who don’t know how to be in a 3 pt stance.  If they ran my plan each player would play the same number as now.

[tsylvester]

3 pt stance is over rated unless you are in short yardage. It helps to keep the pads low and drive forward.

Coaching today, especially in the high-school and college ranks is far superior to yesteryear. 

The issue is over use, of muscles, ligaments and games played. Some ligaments can't handle the muscle size and you get soft tissue injuries; hamstrings, the cl family of the knee, even the achilles. 

Yes, strength and conditoning has come a long way, shoot, Gatorade wasn't even invented when I played, we used water and oranges. We lifted, stretched, then ran 1 mile before practice, then went full tilt in practice. Ice bath after practice.

 

Today, most of that is taken away, changed, thought cruel. 

[papasmurfbell]

I was making the 3 pt stance point as an elemental aspect of the game. Really for injuries has no bearing on ol.  Now in an adjacent way it can lead to injuries is a guy stands straight up.  If a rusher can get into his body often you will be taking damage.  It is not even a huge injury cause but I can see back issues as a possibility in that way. Now for other positions and lack of quality blockin* I can see rb and qb taking more shots than they should. If ol whiff on blocks regularly both positions can take hard hits before they have an opportunity to defend themselves.

other poor coaching in younger levels that can lead to injuries is rbs running upright.  If you don’t get behind your pads you will get hurt.  But being 16 and being able to juke everyone at you level out of their shoes works then. It works less in the nfl.  Not learning a route tree and how to sink you hips in cuts.  Suddenly that’s what’s required and you are blowing out knees.  You are a defender that crashes the line and blows up plays. So you never learn to read your cues so they misdirect you into being blown up.

[oldno82]

It will be even worse now that there's a larger percentage of players coming out of college into the draft at 25 years old or so. Additional wear and tear on the bodies plus just the body just aging more before they join the NFL. 

While the percentage is still small (I read about 18%), it's growing and is already a factor in rating players for the draft.

[papasmurfbell]

Definitely.  You have to look at a guy and say he has talent.  Then look at how long he was in school.  Evaluate how long he can be of use.  If you think you will only get 4 good yrs out of him then a third rounder.   If it’s a decade then a first or second.