dc.

No. You're full of it because you know that the numbers never tell the full story... nor anything close to it. If they did tell the whole story, how exactly do you justify your support of Kyle Boller for a full five seasons?

By the way... in case you aren't getting it... my point is simple: Leonhard makes everyone around him better. Much the way we credit Lewis and Flacco. The defense as a whole functions better with Leonhard in the mix. Regardless of the personal stats.

See, and here is where you are simply wrong. And you know it. You don't have to be feared or a leader to have intangibles. There are intangibles everywhere. Which stat accounts for the fact that Joe Flacco is aided by Jason Brown as his center - as opposed to the one and only Mike Flynn with a great propensity for stepping on a QBs feet? Which stat accounts for Flacco making quality reads? Intentionally throwing the ball away? Avoiding a sack but still not completing a pass? Keeping a play alive for one-half second longer to let Derrick Mason get open? Which stats show us that Flacco made the right audible? Called the right blocking scheme at the line? Recognized the defensive coverage? Defenders are judged on even less than QBs. They have to be. Tackles aren't even an official stat kept by the league. There's not an official definition of a tackle for the statisticians... so how do we know when Leonhard is getting his due and when Ray's late jump is getting credit? And which stat accounts for the fact that by reading the run and blitzing it, Leonhard forced a runner back inside... to the waiting arms of Ngata or Lewis? And which stat shows us that had Leonhard not made this tackle or that tackle that the running back would have scored? You're full of it, Ken. You know it. The stats are merely a piece of the puzzle. Especially in football. In baseball, you might have an argument... but not here.

How did we get to Joe... Many posters: I like Leonhard. Force: I like Landry. Others: Leonhard has been better. Force: Here are stats that show Landry has done more. Me: Stats don't mean a lot. Joe's stats say one thing. But we see something very different on the field. ---- I agree with you. Joe isn't winning games. But he is playing better than his numbers. He is not turning the ball over. Not taking sacks. Not making bad decisions. And he is managing the offense. He is making hundreds, thousands, however many mini-plays and decisions and moves that are affecting the performance of the entire offense. And very little of it shows up in a stats book. Defenders have even fewer stats than QBs that show up in the box score... and yet we are supposed to judge the likes of Leonhard and Landry against each other on those numbers alone? One more example... many here believe Haloti Ngata should be in the Pro Bowl. Statistically, he was outperformed (by miles even) by Haynesworth, Rogers, Hampton and others. But yet so many of us seem to know how much better Ngata was. Now, I don't entirely agree with the Ngata evaluations. But I do know this... his contributions to THIS defense and his performance, the performance by which he should be graded, does not show up in the stat column on Monday morning.

My only problem with your logic here is about the length of the investigations. First and foremost, the investigations were separate. There were early ones in 04/05 when she was City Council Pres and now there have been more, more recently. But to paraphrase Dan Rodricks (who I am hardly a big fan of)... the supporters of the accused always point to lengthy investigations, as if that proves that someone was intentionally poking around. No. Like everything else done by a federal bureau of any kind... things take forever. Hell, Dixon's own lack of cooperation was a major part of why the investigations took so long. And it is the job of the prosecutor to complete a FULL investigation before making any indictments. Meanwhile... the charges may not be corruption... but they are still about a total lack of ethics. Again, Rodricks put it best... Dixon has an attitude of entitlement... and now she's paying for it. She doesn't want the rules to apply to her because she wants what she wants... and she thinks she deserves it.

What are you calling healthy?? Leonhard playing without Gregg, McAlister, a half-injured Reed, the oft-injured Rolle and Washington? Bottom line... we're not going to agree. I said just days after Landry was hurt, when we all thought he might come back, that the defense actually looked better with Leonhard in it. I stand by that point. I stand by the assertion that - aside from Ray Lewis - Jim Leonhard has been this team's best tackler this season. He misses fewer tackles. He is in on plenty of hits. I stand by my assertion that Leonhard, because he knows the schemes so well, is not lucky to be in on plays... he's putting himself in that position. Much the way good players do. And that Landry, much like Reed but with less success, used to take risks that cost this team much more than they every gained. ... Bottom line... If Leonhard is so average, why are you asserting that other teams are going to pay top dollar for him? Are you saying that other teams and GMs are too dense to see what is so plain to you?

see, but there you go deciding what my perception is for me. my perception of flacco as a good qb is not skewed by the fact that i havent seen a good qb in a long time... ive seen many come in and dominate my team. my perception is not skewed. the stats simply dont tell the whole story. flacco might be putting up average numbers... but he makes meaningful plays... he fails to make big mistakes... etc etc... intangibles that are uncounted for. ... as for discounting big games against leonhard... it was a one time example. i was simply saying that remove a single 300 yard rushing day by one team (one game out of just 13 starts) and you have a very different picture of this teams rushing defense. consider it an aside.

Man... we are just not on the same page today, Ken. Rolle... the slow? Frank Walker is certainly faster than Rolle. And though I hate Walker, I am no fan of Rolle either. I want Rolle starting... but not because of his speed. Then again... given his "loop-de-loop" attempt at tackles and coverage in Tenn's game... I don't know. I guess I want Rolle... and I want him playing off the line 15 yards so he doesn't get beat like Sheila Dixon.

I do remember differently. And it does matter. Feeling and perception are just as important as stars. Based on numbers, Bart scott is one kind of player. Based on performance and perception he's another. Better example: joe flacco. His numbers and what we watch say very different things. Also remove the giants huge rushing day and the teams defensive performance is as good as when landry was here. And let's not forget that leonhard was actually the one to make the tackles on several of the giants biggest plays- if not for him it would have been how much worse?

[qoute]Does he deserve it? Certainly not. But Landry is, simply stated, better than Leonhard as a strong safety, and is physically unique as our roster is concerned. Seriously... which Landry do you remember? Because I remember the Landry that missed tackles, made some plays, but also blew his coverage in his attempts to be like Ed Reed. I also NEVER remember Landry having an impact on our run defense OR being decent as a blitzer. Whereas, I feel Leonhard has made huge impact on our pass rush and helped Reed get more than a few of his picks.

Force.... really??? That's all I have. Really? I mean... I actually didn't know Leonhard was smaller (or even 'small' for the position) until two weeks ago. He is in the right place to make plays because he is smart enough to find his way there. He knows this defense as well as Ray Lewis and Ed Reed ... and that means better than anyone else on the D. He has been a HUGE asset in run defense, so I don't know where you get off criticizing his run defense. Not only has he made a huge number of plays at the line (thanks to reading offenses), but he has also saved our asses more than once when our "good tacklers" (Bart Scott I guess you mean?) have let the runner get by. I don't often say this... at least not to you... but what games have you been watching? We can disagree on attitudes of McGahee and all those kinds of things... but your analysis of Leonhard is MILES off.

I agree entirely about the 5 DB scheme. It's just not happening. It won't happen. But Leonhard is the better safety. Period. He is smarter, stronger and a better tackler. Plus he has more big-play ability. I always considered Landry the weak link among our DBs... Rolle took over that position this year and last... but Landry was right behind him. Leonhard? He's my #1 now. I love Ed Reed and what Ed does, but between his injury limiting his tackling and his gambles costing us plays sometimes (they give us big plays, they cost us big plays)... I trust Leonhard. Seriously. I honestly feel the opposite of you, Force. I think people are OVERrating Landry now that he's gone. When he was playing, he never wowed me. He never made me say "This is the guy we HAVE to have at SS." In fact, I remember in the off-season a lot of people wanting to see what other options there were. Leonhard is a monster on our defense. An absolute beast. He reads plays and blocking schemes as well as Ray at times. Far better than Bart Scott, Suggs and others do...

Comparing the Tenn and Pitt lines is impossible. It's ridiculous. Tennessee allowed Collins to be sacked just 8 times this year. EIGHT. In 16 games. Do that math yourself. The Ravens thought they were good when McNair was sacked 13 times a few years back. Roethlisberger was sacked 46 times. And you can add in 3 more for Leftwich. Add to that the fact that Suggs was out for half the game and you've got a recipe for some disasters defensively. Somehow we made it work. We should be all over Ben all game long. We should be down his throat and forcing bad pass after bad pass. My biggest concern is his ability to shrug our defenders and step outside. We don't need the big hit. We need hits. We need the sacks more than we need some highlight reel smash. These two games (Tenn and Pitt) should be very very very different. The scores might be similar, but I expect very different games.

Well, it might not be corruption... but it's borderline. Her sister works for a company that gets hundreds of millions in contracts? And Dixon got her the job? And continued to recommend the company? And continually forgot to mention the connection? And she dates a major developer looking for tax breaks and money from the city? And continues that and accepts gifts?

My earlier comment on Parker... Against the Ravens he averages 43 yards a game and 3.3 yards per carry in six career games. And in his last four starts against the Ravens (aka since 2006 and Jerome Bettis' retirement) he has averaged UNDER 40 yards a game and 3 yards a carry. I actually think the Steelers putting their faith in him more will HELP the Ravens.

To me it looked like Reed was trying to strip the ball... not break or hurt Johnson. I have seen similar plays many times in many games where guys didn't get hurt. I don't get it... if the Ravens were trying to snap Johnson's spine in half... why was it an ankle injury that sidelined him? We must not be very good at going after guys...

I think the biggest limitation is having Heap as our only TE. Wilcox's injury has been huge. We have gone to our "heavy" package with Terry lining up next to Gaither a lot... when we run, it's fine. When we play-action, it's ok. But overall, if we pass in that heavy formation, we are one receiver short. Having Wilcox and Heap, two big, powerful, over-the-middle threats would change things dramatically. Instead, defenses can key-in on Heap over the middle and force Flacco outside more. But part of me believes it is still partially on Flacco... he misses Heap (doesn't see him) often. Trust in Todd, Joe. Perhaps the big catch on the "delay of game" play by Heap will inspire Joe a bit more.

My biggest fear with Reed is my same fear every time he gets an interception... He holds the ball out in one hand... dangling it so that one touch and it is gone... he tries to flip, lateral and do every last little thing to get extra yards that we don't necessarily need. Remember that no turnover thing we are going for here? Reed on a punt return jeopardizes that. If the Steelers are punting from their own endzone... send Reed on the block... McClain (Jameel) gets great push up the middle with the big men, Reed on the corner will only make it more likely we block. And let Leonhard stay back. Even a 10 yards return from the 50 puts us in perfect position. I would consider... MAYBE... putting Reed AND Leonhard back very late in the game... if we were losing and NEEDED a huge play. But just for the hell of it? No. Not risking it unless we absolutely NEED it to win.

I don't mean gimmick plays. I mean quick plays. Have you noticed that in the playoffs/against good teams we are back to "dump it off or throw it deep." There is hardly anything in the middle. Where are the quick, short, over the middle passes that work for every other team in the league? Where are the 10 step comebacks to Mason and Clayton? In the Titans game, our offense was dead the entire game. With the exception of two big plays, we were just plain lame. And it didn't look like we were trying. It's not only about scoring points, its about creating drives to give our defense rest. Our D was on the field FOREVER. Ravens 3 and out... Titans 10 play drive... Ravens 3 and out... Titans 10 play drive... If you're going to play for field position and time of possession ... you need to actually move the ball, at least a little. Our offense couldn't do that with the calls we had on Saturday. So something needs to change.

I think you saw Reed saying he wanted to rush the punt... he is great at beating the corner man and getting the block... that's what I saw him asking for. But even that is not always the best idea. Though, the corner man on the punting team should be flagged for holding on almost every play if Reed rushes... I just don't think it's worth it... especially with Reed's stupidity when carrying the ball. Great at running? Sure. Horrible at holding the ball. Jim Leonhard has been great. Let him keep it up.

Largely because in all five of our losses, including and especially both to the Steelers, you could see that the offense was shut down from the inside. Yes, the Steelers and Titans and Colts all seemed to do a good job of containing our team in a number of ways... but the play-calling and the schemes were nothing like what we saw against lesser teams. There needs to be a compromise. Even on Saturday we were lucky in some senses. Yes, I'm willing to say that. Our play-calling was weak and had Tennessee made one more play, or our defense made one less play, we wouldn't be talking about this game against the Steelers. I don't want a big, open, turn-it-over offense. But I do want an offense that at least APPEARS to be trying to score points -- EVERY drive. And 6 runs up the gut for 11 yards followed by one bomb to Derrick Mason (complete or not) doesn't cut it.

In all honesty... I think the return of Willie Parker helps us. We can shut Parker down. We have done it before. We can do it again. When Parker is not available or the Steelers don't trust him... they go to Ben sooner and more often. And that is more dangerous for us. But if we can shut Parker down early... they aren't just going to abandon him, unless we are winning huge. And every play Willie gets that goes no where (which I hope and think can be most of them), is just gravy for us. Offensively... it's time to put the game in Joe's hands. Short passes, quick routes.... the occasional bomb... get Ray Rice on the swing... Cam needs to get back to the quick-offense that is successful, not super developed.

http://blogs.extremeravens.com/ravens/2009...no-respect_154/ http://blogs.extremeravens.com/ravens/2009...no-respect_154/

If Willis kept his crap up... I said we don't need him. Another reason we so desperately need to keep him.

He might not be going anywhere, but neither is Leonhard. I will seriously question Ozzie, for the first time in my history as a fan, if he lets Jim Leonhard off this team. Then you can talk about who should start. And the fact that Landry is cheaper does not make him the starter. It makes him a member of the team.