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ExtremeRavens: The Sanctuary

Can we all officially say it


varaven45
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This team and Flacco has 0 receivers. No threats, no one the scare the opposing D, no one to get separation, no one to fight for a ball.

 

Unless this team wants to ruin Flacco, we better get a cadre of receivers.

 

Make no mistake, we have an OL, we have a beast RB, we have a QB, we have got to pick up an actual group of WRs and another TE.

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This team and Flacco has 0 receivers. No threats, no one the scare the opposing D, no one to get separation, no one to fight for a ball.

 

Unless this team wants to ruin Flacco, we better get a cadre of receivers.

 

Make no mistake, we have an OL, we have a beast RB, we have a QB, we have got to pick up an actual group of WRs and another TE.

At this point I'd have to say we don't have an NFL caliber QB either. Sorry but Flacco has looked like shit for the entire second half of the season. Joe cool? More like Joe zombie.

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Guest BallTMore

Ozzie needs to find a way to get it done this off-season. Find us a WR!

 

Not sure it's possible though with no CBA agreement.

 

Oh well.

 

We might have another season of sideline routes and dump off passes to Rice.

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At this point I'd have to say we don't have an NFL caliber QB either. Sorry but Flacco has looked like shit for the entire second half of the season. Joe cool? More like Joe zombie.

 

Sure, Joe deserves his share of the blame but to say he isn't an NFL-calibur QB is completely over-reacting. It is kind of hard when you have three inches of swelling in your hip and you cannot sit down. Joe can only do so much with these receivers. Heck, he had SIX drops today. Look at Joe's numbers, the improvement he made from year one to year two was great. Get him some receivers and those numbers are going to jump even more.

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I'm not bailing on Joe yet. I still think we need more than Mason and Rice for him to target.

 

Clayton is a ghost. Heap has to stay in and block. Williams, when he's not in the doghouse, is inconsistent.

 

Washington is a chain mover, but that's about it. Teams have taken him away as the season went on.

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Sure, Joe deserves his share of the blame but to say he isn't an NFL-calibur QB is completely over-reacting. It is kind of hard when you have three inches of swelling in your hip and you cannot sit down. Joe can only do so much with these receivers. Heck, he had SIX drops today. Look at Joe's numbers, the improvement he made from year one to year two was great. Get him some receivers and those numbers are going to jump even more.

 

Joe has no toys. You give him weapons like Brees, Warner, and even Manning, then he can put up some damn points. But when McClain drops a pass in red zone, our guys drop balls all night,dont get separation or fight for balls, your QB is going to look bad - like Brady last Sunday.

 

I have confidence in Joe, none in our WRs.

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I wouldn't call Flacco great yet, him and Matt Ryan dissapointed me this season.

 

Considering the receivers we have and the fact that Flacco statistically improved significantly in every category, how was he a disappointment? Did you really expect him to throw for 30 TDs and 4K yards with our receivers? He is not great yet, but if we give him the weapons the other QBs have, we will certainly be on his way.

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I put almost no blame on Joe.

 

I am a broken record, but I will say it every time it comes up: it's not just no receivers, but we also entirely limit the number of receivers we put on the field with him and that just doesn't work. Manning had 4 wideouts or 3 and Clarke on EVERY play tonight. No wonder he has an open man every damn time.

 

We're lucky if we have 3 (including Heap). We normally run 2 WRs and Heap stays in to block. It's just sad.

 

We all saw Flacco getting fired up with Cameron tonight... and I can tell you what he was saying... he was saying give me quick-developing routes with multiple receivers, and I can hit them. But give me 2 guys, both going 15+ ... not a chance in hell against Freeney and Mathis and the like.

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I put almost no blame on Joe.

 

I am a broken record, but I will say it every time it comes up: it's not just no receivers, but we also entirely limit the number of receivers we put on the field with him and that just doesn't work. Manning had 4 wideouts or 3 and Clarke on EVERY play tonight. No wonder he has an open man every damn time.

 

We're lucky if we have 3 (including Heap). We normally run 2 WRs and Heap stays in to block. It's just sad.

 

We all saw Flacco getting fired up with Cameron tonight... and I can tell you what he was saying... he was saying give me quick-developing routes with multiple receivers, and I can hit them. But give me 2 guys, both going 15+ ... not a chance in hell against Freeney and Mathis and the like.

 

Solid points dc, I am just going to add. There were plays where we had four receivers, I saw multiple sets with Mason, Clayton, Washington, and Heap, or Mason, Clayton, Washington, and Williams. The sad part is our receivers cannot get off of the jam, and drop balls left and right.

 

One more thing that gets me FURIOUS is when Joe has all day to throw or buys time for himself, OUR RECEIVERS CANNOT GET OPEN! It seems like every other team in the league has receivers that understand the concept of coming back to the QB. When Ben buys time, Holmes, Ward, and even the rookie Wallace gets open. If you give Peyton five seconds to throw, his guys are getting open, even late round draft picks like Collie and Garcon. What is going on with our guys???

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I put almost no blame on Joe.

 

I am a broken record, but I will say it every time it comes up: it's not just no receivers, but we also entirely limit the number of receivers we put on the field with him and that just doesn't work. Manning had 4 wideouts or 3 and Clarke on EVERY play tonight. No wonder he has an open man every damn time.

 

We're lucky if we have 3 (including Heap). We normally run 2 WRs and Heap stays in to block. It's just sad.

 

We all saw Flacco getting fired up with Cameron tonight... and I can tell you what he was saying... he was saying give me quick-developing routes with multiple receivers, and I can hit them. But give me 2 guys, both going 15+ ... not a chance in hell against Freeney and Mathis and the like.

Hit them!! He couldn't hit a wide open Mason in the endzone!! And that's not just tonight either. Half the time he doesn't even see the open receiver. On one occasion tonight he threw to an underneath receiver on a crossing route and was almost picked. Looking at the replay you can see Heap wide open further down the field with no one between him and the endzone. You want to beat Flacco, play zone he can't deal with it, not yet. The guy pats the ball, throws late, and has shown some real accuracy issues this year. The Colts could have easily had a couple more picks tonight. I hope it's because of injury and he bounces back because from about mid-season on he's been going down hill.

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Solid points dc, I am just going to add. There were plays where we had four receivers, I saw multiple sets with Mason, Clayton, Washington, and Heap, or Mason, Clayton, Washington, and Williams. The sad part is our receivers cannot get off of the jam, and drop balls left and right.

 

One more thing that gets me FURIOUS is when Joe has all day to throw or buys time for himself, OUR RECEIVERS CANNOT GET OPEN! It seems like every other team in the league has receivers that understand the concept of coming back to the QB. When Ben buys time, Holmes, Ward, and even the rookie Wallace gets open. If you give Peyton five seconds to throw, his guys are getting open, even late round draft picks like Collie and Garcon. What is going on with our guys???

 

I tell you what is going on. In addition to having WRs, we need a WR coach-someone to actually show our receivers what to do, how to get open.

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Now about our receivers:

 

DWill is simply not a football player and needs to go.

Clayton is mediocre at best. I'd let him go too.

Mason cannot be your number one or you are in trouble. Don't even know if he'll be back however.

Washington isn't a bad possession receiver but he's not going to scare anyone.

 

Here's the problem. Typically a drafted WR takes a few years to develop unless he's a freak. We're not going to draft high enough to get one of those even if he is in this year's draft. What's left if you need immediate help? Trade FA?

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We've had this topic every off season since Jackson and Alexander...that's '96 and '97. The receiving position has been weak and especially weak this year. They are so bad that second unit guys have no problem shutting them down.

 

But Joe has got to do better irregardless.

3 points today. No excuse. He has yet to step up and win games when he has to carry the team. He is not matching the high caliber QB's this Ravens team is facing.

He is not even making 2-3 big plays a game. He's reading and reacting too slow, telegraphs throws and only looks at part of the field.

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We've had this topic every off season since Jackson and Alexander...that's '96 and '97. The receiving position has been weak and especially weak this year. They are so bad that second unit guys have no problem shutting them down.

 

But Joe has got to do better irregardless.

3 points today. No excuse. He has yet to step up and win games when he has to carry the team. He is not matching the high caliber QB's this Ravens team is facing.

He is not even making 2-3 big plays a game. He's reading and reacting too slow, telegraphs throws and only looks at part of the field.

I think he's hurt as well Max. His release is even different than in the early part of the season. I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's got a shoulder problem that either he, or the team, has been keeping quiet.

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Arizona needs a defense. Trade Suggs for Boldin.

 

Oh, and take away his dump offs to Ray Rice before you talk about Flacco's improvement this year.

 

Then take away the lobs Peyton, Brady, Schaub, Rivers and Warner throw up to their incredible receivers in triple coverage then. You cannot say that. Great players make great plays. That pass Flacco threw up to Mason that was intercepted is a pass Brady, Schaub, Warner, and Rivers throw up all the time to Moss, A. Johnson, Fitz, and Jackson. The difference is these guys are better at tracking the ball, adjusting, and going up for the catch than any of our guys.

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Then take away the lobs Peyton, Brady, Schaub, Rivers and Warner throw up to their incredible receivers in triple coverage then. You cannot say that. Great players make great plays. That pass Flacco threw up to Mason that was intercepted is a pass Brady, Schaub, Warner, and Rivers throw up all the time to Moss, A. Johnson, Fitz, and Jackson. The difference is these guys are better at tracking the ball, adjusting, and going up for the catch than any of our guys.

Oh baloney! That ball was so under thrown it was ridiculous. Not only that but it had very little air under it for anyone to be able to come back to it. Flacco sucked tonight, as did the entire team, period. Of his 20 completions 9 were dumps to Rice that on a couple occasions almost got Rice killed.

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Oh baloney! That ball was so under thrown it was ridiculous. Not only that but it had very little air under it for anyone to be able to come back to it. Flacco sucked tonight, as did the entire team, period. Of his 20 completions 9 were dumps to Rice that on a couple occasions almost got Rice killed.

 

We will just agree to disagree then, because I have seen a million times Fitz, Johnson, Moss come back for balls like that and catch it. I am not by any means saying that throw is not Flacco's throw, it was a bad one like you say. My point is that elite QBs like Ben, Warner, Brady, Rivers, and Schaub make BAD passes like that all the time and their receivers bail them out just like Rice does on the dumpoffs from Flacco. I do not expect Mason to make that catch, but it helps to have receivers like Fitz, Johson, and Moss who do make those catches. That will add a good amount of padding to a QB's stats.

 

As for 9 out of Flacco's 20 completions, is that more of the receivers' fault for not getting open or Flacco's fault? Probably a little bit of both, like you said Flacco did miss a couple of receivers. But it is pathetic when Flacco has five seconds to throw and our receivers cannot get open. It is also pathetic when your receivers have seven drops.

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Even if you gave us all of Arizona or New Orleans' receivers, our offense would underachieve, because we do not run routes like the Cardinals and Saints do, and Flacco does not appear comfortable throwing the routes that are necessary to move the chains 20-30 yards at a time.

 

The funny thing is, Flacco seemed to hit more crossing and middle-of-the-field routes last year than this year. Yes, I'm impressed with Flacco's ability to hit the down-and-out, but it's still a difficult throw to make drive-after-drive-after-drive. Run, dump-off, sideline route... mix up the order, repeat. Has any offense ever been successful with that formula? Were we really so impressed with its effectiveness last season that we went with the same thing again this year?

 

And for that matter, has Cam Cameron proven at all that he can run a Super-Bowl-caliber offense? Look at Drew Brees post-Cameron. Sure, you can beat up on the little guys with a conservative offense like that, but I contend that you'll never win 3-4 straight playoff games that way against quality opponents.

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I don't want Boldin, he's spent more time off the field the last two years than on it. I really do not thin we'll be able to substantially improve at the WR position this offseason unless we hit a homerun in the draft, since all signs are pointing to an uncapped year with us in the final 8. As for Flacco, yes he underthrew that ball to Mason, but (as I've pointed out several times and several people on this post have) every QB, including Manning, makes throws like that from time-to-time. Manning wildly overthrew Clark over the middle even without Ivy's PI, he underthrew the ball to Garcon that Reed picked, overthrew Wayne in the endzone, and a couple others I'm missing. The point is, IN GENERAL, Flacco has played very well for a 2nd year QB when he hasn't been hurt this year, and most of his throws were on the money today. The number of dropped passes that hit receivers in the hands today was ridiculous, and that is not on Flacco.

 

Also, a question: did anyone else seem to notice Rice wearing down just a tad at the end of the season. His workload was greatly increased this year and while he still played well, he started fumbling and dropping passes a lot more frequently the last 7 games of the season. Hopefully its just a case of a young player getting extended playing time for the first time.

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ER: "What are your thoughts on this topic Mike?"

 

 

27208489-21155418.jpg

Second-year quarterback Joe Flacco will take most of the criticism for the Ravens' lackluster passing game in last night's loss to Indianapolis, but it's not all his fault. Flacco, though, does have to step up his game, and hasn't played well enough to carry the team in two straight postseason appearances.

But the Ravens also need to find him two top quality receivers, or at least a legitimate No. 1 if they re-sign Derrick Mason. It's embarrassing watching the Ravens run a hurry-up offense with Flacco throwing short passes to running back Ray Rice and tight end Todd Heap.

 

Offensive coordinator Cam Cameron also has to come up with a better passing scheme. The Ravens fail to use the entire field, and stay with safe passes to the outside.

 

Meanwhile, Colts quarterback Peyton Manning was throwing passes over the middle and outside, and the Colts ran numerous combination routs, especially on crossing patterns. The Colts have an elite passing attack while the Ravens, from the quarterback to the coordinator, are pretty vanilla.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/01/spread_the_blame_around_for_ravens_offensive_woes.html

 

Totally agree with him.

I hope year 3 (2010) sees Joe and the passing game take that next step.

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We will just agree to disagree then, because I have seen a million times Fitz, Johnson, Moss come back for balls like that and catch it. I am not by any means saying that throw is not Flacco's throw, it was a bad one like you say. My point is that elite QBs like Ben, Warner, Brady, Rivers, and Schaub make BAD passes like that all the time and their receivers bail them out just like Rice does on the dumpoffs from Flacco. I do not expect Mason to make that catch, but it helps to have receivers like Fitz, Johson, and Moss who do make those catches. That will add a good amount of padding to a QB's stats.

 

As for 9 out of Flacco's 20 completions, is that more of the receivers' fault for not getting open or Flacco's fault? Probably a little bit of both, like you said Flacco did miss a couple of receivers. But it is pathetic when Flacco has five seconds to throw and our receivers cannot get open. It is also pathetic when your receivers have seven drops.

 

Guys this is going to sound like i'm straddling the fence, but I believe there is some truth to both of your points. To be truly explosive, it makes it so much easier to have tall wide receivers who can go up and get the ball.

 

BA is right when he says a better throw would have generated a touchdown on that deep pass that was picked off by Bethea yesterday. Flacco also missed Clayton deep on a play that would have won us the first Cinci game if you recall. But cleetz is also right to say when you have tall receivers like Colston or Vincent Jackson, it makes up for underthrows like the one intended for Mason last night. I watched the Saints game earlier in the day and they had 1st and goal at the 2 before 3 penalties (false start, holding and, I think holding) pushed them back to 1st and goal at the 17. All Brees had to do was throw two jump balls to Colston - the first made it 2nd and goal at the 3, the next was a touch down. They made it look so easy, but it's something we can't do with our receivers.

 

Cleetz is right in that Rivers and Brady have this luxury. Manning, not so much - he doesn't have giant receivers he can use in this manner, but he really doesn't need it he just knows where to put the ball. Flacco is no Manning, but we are asking him to play like Manning in order to get production with our wideouts not named Mason.

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I would still add that Flacco's got some lingering injury issues that are probably affecting his throws.

 

I would also add that the routes have a lot to do with it. Again, we all saw Flacco bitching at Cams on the sideline - twice even yesterday. He was asking for shorter, quicker routes. And our offense doesn't run them. It's sad.

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