papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 So if they do cut Joe and are rebuilding what was the point of signing Yanda long term? Quote
OutsideRzAcE Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 It's certainly going to be interesting. I saw a link from Papa that said the Ravens are 19-19 since the SB, or since Flacco signed his big deal. That means when Flacco and his agent sit down at the bargaining table the Ravens will be several games under .500 in the first three years of Flacco's deal. Not exactly the position of strength they negotiated from the first time. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Yeah but why take the pay cut. He knows that on the market he will get more money than with the Ravens and get to keep the free bonus money he got. Quote
varaven45 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 So Jared Goff out of Cal looks to be the top QB prospect. If we get a top pick and are in position to take the top QB prospect, do you take him? If we release Flacco, we would have a lot of dead money on the books for one year, but we would be rebuilding anyways. And the alternative is signing Flacco to renegotiated long-term deal. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13841929/is-california-quarterback-jared-goff-next-aaron-rodgers-next-nfl-bust We Quote
thundercleetz Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 So if they do cut Joe and are rebuilding what was the point of signing Yanda long term?Sunk cost. Plans change. You have a shot at the top QB you evaluate him first then the rest of your team. Quote
OutsideRzAcE Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Yeah but why take the pay cut. He knows that on the market he will get more money than with the Ravens and get to keep the free bonus money he got. I wouldn't if I were him, it's not his fault the Ravens had so much dead money tied up in players no longer on the roster that they can't afford to give him better receivers. At the same time if I were in Ozzie's shoes I'd be looking for some concessions from Joe. The Ravens won't be successful paying Flacco 25 million+ a year, and I don't think they think he's lived up to his contract. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 This is why I said they should have traded Yanda this off season. KO was the one who could make it to the end of a rebuilding process but now he will be gone. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I wouldn't if I were him, it's not his fault the Ravens had so much dead money tied up in players no longer on the roster that they can't afford to give him better receivers. At the same time if I were in Ozzie's shoes I'd be looking for some concessions from Joe. The Ravens won't be successful paying Flacco 25 million+ a year, and I don't think they think he's lived up to his contract. It is not like he did much to earn that contract but he certainly signed on the line when his agent strong armed it out of the Ravens. Quote
varaven45 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 We re-up Joe's deal and find him real NFL weapons - like we did pre Boldin and Torrey. He isn't going anywhere; we need to find him bonafide receivers - via FA and draft - again. Still, we need to draft a QB for the future. Joe's 30 and we need to look down the road. We should more concerned with our defense which looks like a 2-3 year project. They need to fortify the DL, retain Mosely and Smith and rebuild the entire LB and secondary, mostly through draft and some FA. Note, in our 1st SB run, Ozzie picked up FA guys like McCrary, Goose and Sam Adams. It's time for those kind of moves again. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 How will all this be done with Joe getting such a large part of the cap? Quote
dc. Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 How's much does the 19-19 stat mean and how surprising is it really? We're talking 2 seasons and six games... One winning season. One not. Now a debacle. "Since the Super Bowl" sounds so critically long ago. After this year it will be "2 bad, 1 good." Not what we want by any means, but let's get beyond it. Anyone remember that run game in 2013? Or that D all these years? Quote
varaven45 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 After they rework Joe, they acquire what they can afford then turn to the draft. They"ll need 2-3 years of good drafts to turn it around like they did in 2008 - after 2 years of abysmal play during BBs final years. Got to start somewhere. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 They have given many picks away for players to fix this season. Good money after bad. After that 2-3 yr window Joes deal will be up again and Yanda will probably be done. Quote
thundercleetz Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 This is why I said they should have traded Yanda this off season. KO was the one who could make it to the end of a rebuilding process but now he will be gone.We're talking about whether or not we would draft a QB if we had a top five pick. The left guard discussion can wait. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 But it is a puzzle. All the pieces fit together to make a cohesive unit. Quote
thundercleetz Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 But it is a puzzle. All the pieces fit together to make a cohesive unit.That's fine, so your answer is NO, you would not take the top QB if available because we already signed Yanda to a long term deal. What does everyone else think? Quote
tsylvester Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 So Jared Goff out of Cal looks to be the top QB prospect. If we get a top pick and are in position to take the top QB prospect, do you take him? If we release Flacco, we would have a lot of dead money on the books for one year, but we would be rebuilding anyways. And the alternative is signing Flacco to renegotiated long-term deal. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13841929/is-california-quarterback-jared-goff-next-aaron-rodgers-next-nfl-bust No, not a chance. It is such a crap shoot, nothing is gaurenteed when drafting, especially quarterbacks. He could just as easily end of being terrible. The team knows what they have in Flacco, knows he can lead them to a Super Bowl victory. You don't give up on him. This last game was a perfect example of what is wrong with the team and it is not all on Joe. Two dropped touchdown passes, a missed field goal, the defense held twice on short fields keeping a bad offense to two field goals after two horrible picks. 11 pts left on the field, certainly enough to win. Two blown coverages on defense lead directly to touchdowns, 14 pts right there. These things happen in games, no player is perfect. However, they have been happening to this team now for far too long; changes have to be made. In the coaching staff, yes, in players, but in who decides which players to sign & or draft. This didn't start yesterday, it goes back 3 years to who was drafted, who was developed or was not, who was signed or let go based on someone's decision, opinion on payers. We know it isn't the offensive coordinator since Tresman is the 4th in 4 years. We know it isn't just Joe making poor decisions, we have seen receivers run improper routes, drop passes, not being able to get seperation. seen over the 20+ years how the team has failed to develop any receiver. The defense has slowly been slipping over the past five or so years, penalties because they can't cover, fail to get pressure late in games, fail to cause turnovers, fail to develop any real cornerback or middle backer. The more you look at this, the more it is clear Ozzie needs to go, drafts have been weak, free agent pick ups,/ trades, have not worked out, players released are starting to come back to haunt this team, this team never seems to have a comfortable amount of cap room because of dead money. Yes, this season is not just about evaluating players, but also coaching, scout and front office jobs..... Quote
varaven45 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Ty', great post. This didn't happen overnight and it won't be fixed anytime soon. We are looking at a 2-3 year effort of reworking the FO, coaches and personnel. And the sooner we accept it, the sooner we return to relevance. Quote
thundercleetz Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Tim, how do you evaluate Flacco as a redzone QB? We have always had a terrible redzone offense under Harbaugh, and even under Kubiak, Flacco has been below average. I think the field is too tight and requires too quick a decision for what Flacco is comfortable is. Is this correctable? Ultimately this team's inability to turn FG's into TDs have been its downfall. Quote
tsylvester Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Ty', great post. This didn't happen overnight and it won't be fixed anytime soon. We are looking at a 2-3 year effort of reworking the FO, coaches and personnel. And the sooner we accept it, the sooner we return to relevance. Yep, two - three years is about right. They are not one player away, but are close enough, when you look at the loses & the fact they should have won dispite their issues, that this is not a long time fix. They need to find out which of the receivers, they need to keep between Ross (really like him) Givens, then Aiken and the rest. It is time to unleash Given & Ross, they have shown enough the past two games that they are better options than Aiken & Brown. Once they figure out the receivers, then they can start to see what is needed on offense from the draft. It looks like they will have a real shot at Laquan Treadwell, but will they need him? This is the part that really sucks about the rookie being hurt for so long, they don't know what they have in him. Treadwell is a complete receiver, some rough edges to mill off, but very little "teaching" needed. The defense needs so much in the back end. But this draft is going to be deep with (real) viable safeties who can not only cover, but have the instincts to excell. They could land one in the first 3 rounds who can start from day one. There are a few middle linebackers coming out who could also fill the void in the middle, Smith is clearly losing what ever speed he had, his age caught up to him big time. Currently, they have no good option on the team, but they could find his replacement in the first round, maybe even in the 2nd round. Corners are also needed, one could be had in round one as well. It should be fun. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 That's fine, so your answer is NO, you would not take the top QB if available because we already signed Yanda to a long term deal. What does everyone else think?I am really unsure of Goff. That system makes for big stats. Boller was a product of it but so was Rodgers. I would probably wait a yr to make a run at the QB looking to a better crop. That doesn't prevent them from addressing the OL or the D. Quote
tsylvester Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Tim, how do you evaluate Flacco as a redzone QB? We have always had a terrible redzone offense under Harbaugh, and even under Kubiak, Flacco has been below average. I think the field is too tight and requires too quick a decision for what Flacco is comfortable is. Is this correctable? Ultimately this team's inability to turn FG's into TDs have been its downfall. I think he is right up there with the best to be honest. Yesterday proved that he is not the issue, the play design/calling is one issue and receivers are the other. Two dropped, well thrown toucdown passes. Marlin Brown on the pass that Aiken caught, was open and the target, but he showed his inablility to understand how to run the route. Even if Aiken doesn't make the catch, Brown would have missed it too because he kept running to the sideline, rather than sitting down. The pass would have been behind him. Give him some better receivers, design some plays for them that get them open, those are touchdowns. Why they don't use the tight ends, all of who are 6.5 or better and can jump, is beyond me.... Quote
tsylvester Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I am really unsure of Goff. That system makes for big stats. Boller was a product of it but so was Rodgers. I would probably wait a yr to make a run at the QB looking to a better crop. That doesn't prevent them from addressing the OL or the D. Keep in mind, Rogers sat for a few years behind Brett Farve, ran the practice squad..... I think this would be a good year to draft Joe's replacement, there are a few good ones coming out the Ravens could get later in the draft. All of them coming outthis coming draft need a few years to sit any way. The kid from Memphis comes to mind, Paxton Lynch. Smart, quick feet, strong arm, a cerebral qb with good feel in the pocket but he needs 3-4 years of learning at this level.... Quote
varaven45 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Yep, hence the 3 yr rebuild for the D. That assumes we find a DC. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 But he just threw a ball up for grabs. That was on him. That is a rookie mistake. Quote
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