My Bet: Dave Out Tomorrow

[thundercleetz]

Here is a solid article by Ken Rosenthal on exactly what the Orioles need. Here are some good points:

 

Here’s another thought: Hire former Padres general manager Kevin Towers as GM, retain MacPhail as club president and instruct Towers to find the next manager, be it Valentine or Showalter or an up-and-comer – the next Bud Black, Joe Girardi or Joe Maddon.

 

Of course, Towers might prefer to wait for a better situation, but offer him enough money and he might jump. The Orioles are not exactly destitute, even though their home attendance continues to erode. Angelos negotiated an absurdly one-sided regional sports network deal with the Nationals in exchange for giving up the Orioles’ territorial rights to Washington, D.C. The Orioles started off owning 90 percent of the network, and never will own less than 67 percent.

 

They can spend on a GM. They can spend on a manager. They can spend on players. Frankly, to stand any chance in the AL East, they need to start buying some legitimate hitters. They also need to get serious in the international market, where they are no more than bit players.

 

Most rival executives consider the Orioles a sleeping giant, if only they could get out of their own way. The franchise, once one of the game’s most respected, has no identity, exudes no aura, displays no sense of urgency.

 

Firing the manager isn’t the answer – the dismissal of Trembley will mark Angelos’ sixth change since Davey Johnson led the club to its last two postseason appearances in 1996 and ’97. The Orioles’ problems are so deeply rooted, a more fundamental upheaval is required.

 

Hire Towers. Hire Valentine or Showalter.

 

Do something.

 

Firing Trembley isn't the answer

 

I agree with Rosnethal, we need to get rid of the losing culture. All the coaches in the dugout and bullpen need to go. We need someone who can relate to the young players, Girardi did a great job of that in Florida by not putting up with any crap. We need a guy like that.

[dc.]

Yeah, but he's got it even more right when he says that its about players - not managers or general managers.

 

Wieters, Jones, Reimold, Tillman, Matusz, Hernandez, Pie, even Markakis... they all need vets who CAN PLAY.

 

Cano, Gardner, Cervelli in New York... Pedroia and Ellsbury in Boston... these guys come up into situations where they can succeed. We haven't provided anyone on this team that opportunity. There's your stunted growth.

 

The fact that in nearly 200 at bats, our first baseman have 0 ZERO homeruns is not only unbelievable, it's unacceptable. That's just absurd.

 

Stop aiming middle of the pack and make something freaking happen

[papasmurfbell]

I am happy for Dave now that he has escaped this mess.

 

Unless they give some obsene amount of money to a manager they will get only another loser. They need to do the same for a middle of the lineup hitter.

[vmax]

Samuel's debut...11-0.

 

What's your guess...

How many days/weeks before they win a game?

[papasmurfbell]

Wow that firing of Dave was all they needed.

 

NST has been thinking about when they will get to 20 wins. They think after July 4. I think they are pretty spot on.

 

So Dave was winning at a .278 clip. Say Juan is at .150. Do they find an interim from the interim Manager?

[dc.]

Well, it's possible Juan won't be around that long anyway... MacPhail said they could find a guy next week, next month, end of season... I would bet they will aim for within a month if there are decent candidates.

 

I just hope, again, that Crow goes too when the new manager comes in.

[papasmurfbell]

I don't see anyone that is worth anything wanting this job. They don't want a manager with a spine. Thet last one they had Peter ran out of town the day he won MOTY. No manager has been allowed to pick his own staff. They want a manager that will know his place and stay there. That kind of attitude translates to the field.

[Spen]

I don't see anyone that is worth anything wanting this job. They don't want a manager with a spine. Thet last one they had Peter ran out of town the day he won MOTY. No manager has been allowed to pick his own staff. They want a manager that will know his place and stay there. That kind of attitude translates to the field.

 

Peter wasnt the only one at fault in not getting along with Davey Johnson. He isnt exactly easy to get along with.

 

When there are so few jobs available as there managerial jobs in the big leagues, there are always people who want the job. Any job. Also at this point the team is so bad, it probably couldnt help but get at least a bit better. So a manager would pretty much have nothing to lose in taking the job.

 

Meanwhile this season keeps getting worse, at this rate the team may have a shot at being one of the worst teams in baseball history. Something to shoot for.

[vmax]

Holy Poop!

 

The Orioles won!

They didn't quit or cave in.

 

Congrats!

[Spen]

I wonder how Bill Ripken would do as a coach....

[millz58]

I wonder how Bill Ripken would do as a coach....

wasn't he at boy's latin, or gilman or something? maybe that was a while ago...; he would make a good coach, he has the right kind of temperament and enough ML experience. I've heard before that middle-infielders don't make as good coaches? any truth?

[papasmurfbell]

Yeah when you have a reputation you will wait for the Cubs job or another respectable franchise. When you can't break out of being a manager in the minors you take the O's job.

 

I don't care if Davey is hard to get along with. He knows how to win so leave him alone. Peter wants people that will sit around kissing his ass.

[Spen]

Yeah when you have a reputation you will wait for the Cubs job or another respectable franchise. When you can't break out of being a manager in the minors you take the O's job.

 

I don't care if Davey is hard to get along with. He knows how to win so leave him alone. Peter wants people that will sit around kissing his ass.

 

Well you of all people know that isn't exactly how it works. Even year where the Ravens did well you wanted Billick gone because you didn't like him. Didnt you have a signature that stated as much? He won so why didnt you want him left alone?

 

So if an owner cannot get along with the manager, and the manager cannot get along with the owner - then something is bound to happen.

 

Its also debatable how much of a winner Johnson was in his later years. He did well here but wore out his welcome quickly in LA.

 

We'll see who gets offered the job and who doesnt take it. The simple fact is very few big league managerial jobs are turned down.

[papasmurfbell]

Brian stopped consistently winning after 2004. I had started to sour on him after the 2001 season when he wouldn't put Randall in at QB during the playoffs when Elvis wet the bed.

 

Peter has also driven off Jon Miller.

[dc.]

Brian stopped consistently winning after 2004. I had started to sour on him after the 2001 season when he wouldn't put Randall in at QB during the playoffs when Elvis wet the bed.

 

But you at least acknowledge that it's not as easy as "just win" as you went sour on Brian in a year when he went 10-6 and made the playoffs.

[Spen]

Brian stopped consistently winning after 2004. I had started to sour on him after the 2001 season when he wouldn't put Randall in at QB during the playoffs when Elvis wet the bed.

 

Peter has also driven off Jon Miller.

 

Jon Miller, wtf?

 

Either way you didnt like Billick and even with his success after 2001 you wanted him gone despite your statement "He knows how to win so leave him alone.". Johnson was every bit, if not more, arrogant than Billick. The personality conflict that led to Johnson's leaving, I certainly dont blame one of them - I think they share the blame.

 

Miller was a great guy and broadcaster and the popular story is Pete fired him for being too critical of the Orioles, yet Miller himself has refuted that story a few times. I dont know what really happened. And I am sure it has nothing to do with the Orioles hunt for a manager.

[papasmurfbell]

I started at that point to believe that Brian did not do whatever it took to win. You put your best out to get the win everytime. He would not do that. He used his favorites. Also he began to be more about arguing with Mike Preston than winning games. Several times I heard him initiate with Preston. He just wanted to be right and if winning got in the way of that then so be it.

[dc.]

Actually, Spen, I have heard Miller consistently corroborate that story - after a history of 'no comment.' He tends to blame Angelos for his departure and remains unhappy about it.

 

 

In either case, we have gotten away from the real issue: who will the Orioles bring in and who is willing to come in?

 

I certainly agree with Spen here... several of the names out there actually work as perfect examples.

 

Buck Showalter joined the Arizona Diamondbacks before they were even playing... After his stint there he joined the Texas Rangers following a last place finish. Both situations came after relatively successful jobs with the Yankees. Do you really think has suddenly built up the ego of not being able/wanting to take on a fixer-upper?

 

Bobby Valentine hasn't managed in the majors in nearly a decade. Do we really believe he'll turn down any offers he sees?

 

Lastly, and perhaps the biggest problem with your theory Papa, is that a better job will come around. Says who? The Braves will have an opening after this year ... but that's one job and how many qualified candidates? With that very notable exception, what other "respectable" clubs do we project will have openings? Good teams don't fire their managers. Any opening is going to come with a club that has struggled. The Cubs are the one, off the top of my head, that I could see having an opening - but they are hardly more successful than the O's in many ways (just ask Cub fans). But where else will we see openings? Not in New York or St Louis or Los Angeles...

[Spen]

Actually, Spen, I have heard Miller consistently corroborate that story - after a history of 'no comment.' He tends to blame Angelos for his departure and remains unhappy about it.

 

 

OK, I had heard him refute or partially refute long ago. Maybe he is more open about it now.

 

It doesn't really matter to me. I am not claiming Angelos is easy to get along with or isn't a prick. I have just heard the same thing about Davey Johnson so I refuse to blame his departure solely on one of them.

[papasmurfbell]

We will see but I see them interviewing guys and getting turned down mover and over. I would let Rick Dempsey manage. He wants it. He knows the game. He won in the minors. It would also give Andy some time he needs to fix all the holes in the whole orginazation.

[dc.]

Ugh. I cannot believe the support Dempers has to manage this club. He is a nice guy, he is a fun guy... I love him as an Oriole. But he is NOT a major league manager.

 

Have you watched/heard him post-game? I cannot see him being effective leading a major league team.

[papasmurfbell]

I do not think he can do any worse than Trembley, Miller, Mazilli, Perlazo, or Hargrove.

[dc.]

Well, what's "doing worse?"

 

Trembley didn't have anything to work with, this year especially... so yeah, if you give Dempsey or anyone a decent bat they'll "do better." But is that him or the players?

 

Not that it's necessarily relevant, but given Trembley, Perlozzo, Mazzilli and Hargrove... I would pick Dempsey last.

[Spen]

Keep Dempsey in the booth, where he belongs.

[papasmurfbell]

Keep Dempsey in the booth, where he belongs.

 

That is right where he shouldn't be. He is not good in the booth.