My Bet: Dave Out Tomorrow

[Spen]

That is right where he shouldn't be. He is not good in the booth.

 

 

yeah, you are right. Better there than in the dugout though.

[millz58]

Here's another opinion (not one I necessarily agree with, by the way, just one I found on Drew Forrester's blog)...

 

But back to Dempsey and the protocol issue. He SHOULD be interviewed for the current opening and if MacPhail can’t professionally give Dempsey a legitimate interview, then we all have the right to question MacPhail’s real motives.

 

And please save me any rhetoric about how “Dempsey says some dumb stuff on TV” and by that connection alone, he wouldn’t be a good manager. Hogwash. He says what he says on TV - a lot of it apologetic in nature - because he is, A) employed by the team - and, B) interested in managing the team someday and doesn’t want to say anything negative that might further alienate him from the owner and/or GM in his quest to be considered for the dugout job.

 

Something’s fishy when Rick Dempsey can’t get an interview for the manager’s job. It’s very possible that things have occurred behind the scenes that we DON’T know about that have led to the club’s stand-offish nature with him. But the more we learn, the more we find out the truth: Dempsey and MacPhail don’t see eye-to-eye.

 

In fact, this past spring, MacPhail didn’t extend Dempsey an invitation to spring training. Throughout the last decade, Dempsey would always spend spring training with the club in an unofficial teaching capacity. It was a position he relished and enjoyed, as most former players do.

 

This spring, Dempsey wasn’t invited. He wasn’t told why. He just never got the call.

 

Yet, somehow, Dempsey is still hanging around and despite getting his family jewels kicked by MacPhail (and the organization), he wants to run the ballclub in the dugout. That tells you something about Dempsey, doesn’t it?

 

His current gig in the cozy confines of the MASN stadium-studio would be a dream job for a lot of folks. Do 162 days of work with a big league club and get paid $80,000 or so for doing it. It’s good work if you can get it. And safe.

 

Instead, Dempsey would throw that away and manage this modern day version of The Bad News Bears. And that’s AFTER the club has spit on him time and time again since 2003.

Personally I don't see why Dempsey should be dissed like he has been, but also I don't know why he'd be any better than what we have, save that pride alone in the team's history (and possibly a catcher's knowledge) would give him an edge. The rest is here:

 

http://wnst.net/wordpress/drewforrester/2010/06/08/it-takes-20-minutes-dempsey-saga-more-about-macphail-than-dempsey/

[dc.]

Forrestor's a moron...

 

Almost no former players were invited to Sarasota this year with the O's because of the "transition" to the new stadium and facilities. It was highly publicized that almost everyone failed to receive their normal invite. The facilities in particular were cramped and undergoing huge changes and needed the space, not the bodies.

 

 

Meanwhile... I personally remember Dempsey's reported temper-tantrum a few years back, either around the time of Mazzilli or Perlozzo or Trembley... one time it was about not getting an interview, the next about not getting the job... I think when Sammie was fired there were stories about him storming through the warehouse saying "If I don't get an interview...!"

 

I don't think Dempsey is the angel some make him out to be. Meanwhile, I have nothing against Dempsey based on his on-air personality. I simply do not think he is the right fit for the club. And if he and MacPhail don't see eye-to-eye, that's just another strike. Because right now this is MacPhail's club to run, and you have to have a GM-Manager team that agree on a lot of things.

 

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, the Orioles and the fans need to get away from the "good PR move" hires. That means Dempsey, Ripken (Bill or Cal), Murray, and whoever else are off the list. We cannot make a hire with even the THOUGHT that we're doing it to draw fans in because of the name. Davey Johnson, too. I'm sorry, but this team needs to SHAKE things up, no reminisce.

 

Post-Script: If Dempsey is really serious about becoming a major league manager, he needs plenty more experience anyway... get out of the booth, stop 'talking' baseball to the fans, and get back 'in the game' at some capacity.

[millz58]

I think Dempsey's too far gone to get back in the game; he's too comical to take seriously. He's a character, that's about all. I agree there needs to be a total shakeout. The only problem is that, someone will still be left from the old regime...

[thundercleetz]

O's eye Valentine, Wedge in managerial search

 

Both guys would be great, I think Valentine would be the ideal manager. However, hiring either guy would mean nothing unless they are fully allowed to assemble their own staff. I would imagine someone as high profile and opinionated as Valentine would only accept the job if he was given complete control.

[dc.]

I was interested to hear MacPhail say at the Samuel conference that "coaching personnel decisions are entirely the realm of the manager" and that he only makes suggestions, starts conversations. It struck me as relatively unbelievable given the extremely low turnover in coaching we've seen for so long.

 

In other words, it seems like MacPhail is saying that "starting clean" has always been a possibility since he's been there at least. So why it hasn't happened, who knows?

 

Meanwhile, I don't think Wedge would be the right fit. But the more I hear it talked about, the more I like Valentine. Buster Olney and Tim Kurkjian have both been saying that they expect it to happen soon - it won't be all season before the change happens. Olney was stressing in a video on ESPN.com yesterday that the O's desperately need the change to turn their young players around. He and many scouts seem to think that the youngsters are "getting weighed down" by the losing. No shit.

 

Also, I think it was Olney, who said that Valentine could "jump" at the challenge the Orioles would present. This is about the only road into the AL East these days. Perhaps Cito will just retire, but Maddon, Girardi and Francona aren't moving any time soon. So the only way into baseball's best division is to manage its worst team... and apparently many think Valentine likes the idea of being the man that turned it around. hah

[thundercleetz]

I was interested to hear MacPhail say at the Samuel conference that "coaching personnel decisions are entirely the realm of the manager" and that he only makes suggestions, starts conversations. It struck me as relatively unbelievable given the extremely low turnover in coaching we've seen for so long.

 

In other words, it seems like MacPhail is saying that "starting clean" has always been a possibility since he's been there at least. So why it hasn't happened, who knows?

 

Because the two managers (three if you count Samuel) since Mazzilli have all been in-house. Essentially these are the same guys since Mazzilli was hired back in 2004. And before that Mazzilli kept a lot of the same guys from Hargove's staff, probably because Mazzilli was a first-time manager. Getting an experienced guy like Valentine who has a lot of connections around the league will probably bring in a large turnover of coaches.

[papasmurfbell]

Maz was told that certain coaches had to be on his staff.

[dc.]

Yes, Maz was not given free reign. Not only because he was new, but because he was an outsider and because were still in the era of PA's hands-on moderating.

[cravnravn]

Did not Demper win a minor league championship with the Dodger orginization?

[papasmurfbell]

Did not Demper win a minor league championship with the Dodger orginization?

 

Yes he did.

[dc.]

Trembley won multiple minor league titles and manager of the year awards.

[cravnravn]

Trembley won multiple minor league titles and manager of the year awards.

 

 

What can we lose with the hiring of Dempsey? Its not like marquee coach's are knocking our door down to throw their name in the managerial hat.

[dc.]

First... there are plenty of good coaches out there we've been in touch with and they are willing to come.

 

Second... that's exactly the attitude we need to avoid: "what's there to lose?" plenty. We need to make a decision and find the man that is truly right for this team. And the class clown Dempsey is NOT that guy.

[cravnravn]

See, Everybody recalls Dempsey for his funning during rain delays,

[dc.]

Yes. Everyone remembers that. Dempsey, in fact, doesn't deny that part of that is still in him. And if you listen to him pre-game, post-game, etc etc... you see and hear that.

 

But his goofiness is not the sole factor - we need MORE than what Dempsey can offer.

 

I love it when people say we need a "fundamentals" guy. Do we seriously believe that none of the Orioles past 5 manager cared about fundamentals? In fact, when Trembley came in some said he was TOO ingrained in fundamentals - he made the team take extra fielding and batting practice daily.

 

What we need is a FRESH message. And Dempsey cannot offer that. Do you really believe that Dempsey's fundamentals message can be any more powerful than Trembley or anyone else that's been in the clubhouse over the last decade? (Remember, Dempsey was on this team as a coach as recently as 05).

[papasmurfbell]

Actually, Spen, I have heard Miller consistently corroborate that story - after a history of 'no comment.' He tends to blame Angelos for his departure and remains unhappy about it.

 

 

In either case, we have gotten away from the real issue: who will the Orioles bring in and who is willing to come in?

 

I certainly agree with Spen here... several of the names out there actually work as perfect examples.

 

Buck Showalter joined the Arizona Diamondbacks before they were even playing... After his stint there he joined the Texas Rangers following a last place finish. Both situations came after relatively successful jobs with the Yankees. Do you really think has suddenly built up the ego of not being able/wanting to take on a fixer-upper?

 

Bobby Valentine hasn't managed in the majors in nearly a decade. Do we really believe he'll turn down any offers he sees?

 

Lastly, and perhaps the biggest problem with your theory Papa, is that a better job will come around. Says who? The Braves will have an opening after this year ... but that's one job and how many qualified candidates? With that very notable exception, what other "respectable" clubs do we project will have openings? Good teams don't fire their managers. Any opening is going to come with a club that has struggled. The Cubs are the one, off the top of my head, that I could see having an opening - but they are hardly more successful than the O's in many ways (just ask Cub fans). But where else will we see openings? Not in New York or St Louis or Los Angeles...

 

Yes yes I do.

 

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2010/06/valentine_1.html

 

When asked about whether he'd be willing to take a managerial position where it might be difficult to win, Valentine said: "It's a big challenge. I like big challenges, but I like to have some reward too, and the reward is in the standings and their standings don't look like they're going to turn around very quickly."

 

Looks like a no to me.

[dc.]

Yeah, said the same thing in the other thread.... he said that on the radio the other day apparently, but it was a weird interview. The whole way he was talking was weird. So, I dunno. It's not quite a no yet.

[Spen]

So that quote is a 'no' to a job not even offered to him? Vague logic at best.

[papasmurfbell]

It is a nice way to say thanks but no thanks.

[dc.]

Well... the oddest part of the whole thing is that Valentine's quote sounds as if he knew nothing about the O's when he went down there... and even if he's been in Japan for 8 years, he's a Baseball Tonight commentator now... he knew what the team was.

 

So to say, "man, they have a while to go before they win" as if he didn't know that walking in the door? There's a big disconnect there.

 

He took the interview knowing what club he was interviewing for. If his problem was the team and its record and its place... why did he even come to Baltimore and waste the day? Just to hear MacPhail or Angelos beg a bit? Doesn't make sense.

[papasmurfbell]

I believe he interviewed to be polite. You can always turn the offer down.

[Spen]

I believe he interviewed to be polite. You can always turn the offer down.

 

Valentine did something just to be polite? Bobby Valentine? To be polite?

 

One could also read Valentine's reward quote to mean he wants huge dollars.

[dc.]

I think if Valentine interviewed while having no interest in the job, he did so because he thought it was a good way to get his name out there and really in the mix again. "Well, the O's wanted me..."

 

But to be polite? That's just silly. In fact, there's nothing polite about wasting someone's time in such a matter.

 

Time will tell if he was truly interested... I don't think he'll get offered the job after those comments, but I don't think he'll turn it down if officially offered. That said, he'd probably have to come in for another interview - MacPhail said he wouldn't bet on a decision being made pre-All Star Break

[ForceEight]

Is anyone really that intrigued or excited by Valentine anyway? This doesn't really hurt my feelings.