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Who's D was "best" 2000 vs 2008


cravnravn
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The Ravens' defense didn't just force five turnovers in a 27-9 playoff win over the Miami Dolphins.

 

This ball-hawking group is also forcing the issue of where it ranks among the other great Ravens defenses.

 

The 2000 defense will go down as perhaps the best in NFL history because it set records and carried a team to a Super Bowl.

 

The 2008 defense isn't yet in that class, but it has separated itself with the ability to create turnovers and convert them into touchdowns.

 

So, where does this defense stand at this point?

 

"It's hard to say," said defensive coordinator Rex Ryan, who was the defensive line coach in 2000. "Just wait until after the Super Bowl happens, then you can put us in historical perspective. Right now, we just know we're playing like Baltimore Ravens."

 

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There's not even an argument to be had here. The 2000 defense is possibly the greatest of all time; this defense is possibly the best this season.

 

An argument could be made that this defense is better than our 2006 D, and that's something we could discuss...but 2000? Out of the question. That D was as close to perfection as it gets.

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I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that 2000 defense would thrive with the rule changes the NFL now has in place. I'm going to take nothing away from that team, the run was awesome and the defense bullied everyone.

 

However I believe their are more athletes and playmakers on this current roster, which are needed to succeed in the super fast paced NFL of today.

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Great points Spear and yager. First off, I agree with Spear that the comparison to the 2006 is more valid. Both defenses are very similar in the fashion they caused turnovers. I also agree with yager, how good would the 2000 defense had been with the new rule changes? That is the reason why no defense will be able to be compared to the 2000 defense. Talent wise, I would say that our defense stacks up to 2000. So who knows.

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When you say rules changes, which ones are you referring to exactly? What changes to the rules have been made other than the defensive-back holding/pass interference calls?

 

As good as our run defense has been this year, we've still given up 1302 yards on 366 rushes. By comparison, the 2000 run D gave up 970 rushing yards on 361 rushes. The YPC difference is 3.6 to 2.7. Could we at least agree that the run defense, while still amazing this year, is a no-contest for Sam Adams, Goose, a younger Ray, Peter and Jamie?

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When you say rules changes, which ones are you referring to exactly? What changes to the rules have been made other than the defensive-back holding/pass interference calls?

 

As good as our run defense has been this year, we've still given up 1302 yards on 366 rushes. By comparison, the 2000 run D gave up 970 rushing yards on 361 rushes. The YPC difference is 3.6 to 2.7. Could we at least agree that the run defense, while still amazing this year, is a no-contest for Sam Adams, Goose, a younger Ray, Peter and Jamie?

 

Yes

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I agree, our 2000 defense would have struggled with some of the rule changes... namely the harsher enforcement of the chuck rule, more roughing calls, etc etc...

 

That said... I still don't think there is a comparison.

 

Adjustments have been made by this defense to many different things throughout the season... imagine the adjustments that had to be made in 2000 anyway.

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The comparison isn't even close.

 

And I'm not really keen on all the "let's wait until the Super Bowl" talk going on. We aren't that good to be talking like that, folks.

 

Whatever happened to using Festivus Maximus? Where's Billick when you need him?

 

That is the good thing about being a fan, we are the only ones who make such comparisons. The players do not give a hoot about the 2000 defense or all the "let's wait until the Super Bowl" talk. Ray Lewis and Matt Stover are the only active Ravens who are left from that 2000 team. The team's focus is on Tennessee, and Tennessee only.

 

There is no need for Festivus Maximus, the players are focused and ready to go. Forget 2000, I believe the players learned their lesson from 2006 where they came out a little sluggish against the Colts. That will not happen again. Harbaugh has had the team thinking "one game at a time" the whole season, that is not going to change this week.

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That is the good thing about being a fan, we are the only ones who make such comparisons. The players do not give a hoot about the 2000 defense or all the "let's wait until the Super Bowl" talk. Ray Lewis and Matt Stover are the only active Ravens who are left from that 2000 team. The team's focus is on Tennessee, and Tennessee only.

 

There is no need for Festivus Maximus, the players are focused and ready to go. Forget 2000, I believe the players learned their lesson from 2006 where they came out a little sluggish against the Colts. That will not happen again. Harbaugh has had the team thinking "one game at a time" the whole season, that is not going to change this week.

I was speaking in response to this:

"It's hard to say," said defensive coordinator Rex Ryan, who was the defensive line coach in 2000. "Just wait until after the Super Bowl happens, then you can put us in historical perspective. Right now, we just know we're playing like Baltimore Ravens."
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The 2000 group was the best ever...I can list a ton of reasons but to name 1...I knew I was watching history when I watched that group.

 

Here's a litmus test. In 2000, if the Ravens scored 10-13 points, I knew the game was a win. How many points would make you feel comfortable with this 2008 group?

 

We can hope this 2008 D is close but they have already given up 1 TD in the playoffs...that's all the 2000 unit surrendered. They shut everybody out in the 4th quarter during the playoffs. Opponents attempted 161 passes against them in 4 playoff games...only 1 went for 20+ yards and none went for touchdowns.

They faced the best offenses in the NFL in the playoffs and shut them down.

 

We can hope the 2008 squad plays close to that standard. I will say they are "damn good" scarey, dominant....I know I'm seeing something very special...just not history.

 

Even if the Ravens win the Super Bowl I would say this defense ranks 'up there', 'near' but not equal to or better than the 2000 Ravens D.

 

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13.

In 2000 we averaged 20 points a game, in 2008 24 a game..

 

 

I wouldn't be confident with anything close to 13 points with this group. How about 24. 28. We needed 33 to beat Dallas, and they didn't even end up making the playoffs. Not once this season have I felt comfortable with a lead, at least not since Week 5. We have to keep scoring to keep the pressure on the other team... if we're not scoring points, then we're probably not moving the ball on offense either, which will end up killing our D by the 4th quarter as we've seen time and time again.

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I do not. Refer to my rant about 'not understanding the limitations of your team' for some reasons why.

 

This team was not the #2 defense in the league for nothing. I swear, that 2000 defense was the worse thing to happen to Baltimore. Everyone's expectations are so high that nothing is ever good enough. Every defense has their limitations, and Rex knows them perfectly well. Give and take is part of football. Can't people just enjoy the playoff run?

 

BTW, I am not referring to only you, I am referring to all Ravens fans, including myself.

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.... I swear, that 2000 defense was the worse thing to happen to Baltimore. Everyone's expectations are so high that nothing is ever good enough.

 

I don't think it's a question of "not good enough" cleetz.

 

This 2008 defense is a pleasure to watch. Ravens fans know good, dominating defense and we are watching it once again.

Saturday we were treated to seeing this D turn the heat up higher. Seriously...who thought they'd get 4 INT's and a fumble against the leagues best offense at protecting the ball? That is a huge statement about dominance.

 

In my head I don't see this D as "less than". I see them like Harbaugh says...Ravens. Let me define my understanding of "Ravens Football"...it tough, physical, fast, smart, disciplined and tenacious. The 2000 unit set this standard and franchise trademark. It's the Ravens calling card.

 

This 2008 Ravens defense is filling that bill exactly.

 

The 2000 D wasn't the worst thing to happen...it was the best. Ozzie and his staff know the type of player they need to play defense at this level...and the type of coaches too...and they keep finding and getting them year after year. "We know who we want to be" is a saying you could give to the front office and coaching staff. Lot's of teams don't know how to pull this off in this age of parity.

I knew I was watching perhaps a once in a lifetime event as that 2000D smashed the points surrendered record. I don't expect anybody to come close...and it does not diminish what our 2008 D is doing. It makes it all the better because they have hit the bar and are bending it.

 

It gave the Ravens a personality, an identity,...it's winning football at it basic core value greatness.

 

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Edited by vmax
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This team was not the #2 defense in the league for nothing. I swear, that 2000 defense was the worse thing to happen to Baltimore. Everyone's expectations are so high that nothing is ever good enough. Every defense has their limitations, and Rex knows them perfectly well. Give and take is part of football. Can't people just enjoy the playoff run?

 

BTW, I am not referring to only you, I am referring to all Ravens fans, including myself.

I'm just nervous!

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This team was not the #2 defense in the league for nothing. I swear, that 2000 defense was the worse thing to happen to Baltimore. Everyone's expectations are so high that nothing is ever good enough. Every defense has their limitations, and Rex knows them perfectly well. Give and take is part of football. Can't people just enjoy the playoff run?

 

BTW, I am not referring to only you, I am referring to all Ravens fans, including myself.

 

When our overconfidence leads to poor decisions from the coaches, which causes us to lose games... it matters. I expect our coaches to realize that we are not good enough to settle for field goals against good teams. I don't mean settle as in "we took an honest shot and came up empty so we're kicking field goals." I'm talking about "We just don't want to turn the ball over, so it's okay to run, run, run and kick a field goal." I kept saying "they think our defense is better than it is."

 

Here's hoping that we learned our lesson in the last Pittsburgh game. I think we may have.

 

But for the record, I don't think the 2000 Defense was the worst thing to happen to Baltimore. If you talk to Ray Lewis, I bet he would tell you that his goal is to be better than he was in 2000, and to field a more dominant defense than even the 2000 Ravens. This is what our players have instilled in us, the fans. We expect the world because our players have taught us that we should.

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