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Is It Really This Bad?


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#21 dc.

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 09:38 PM

Yesterday, Trump couldn't identify key members of the Iranian regime and argued that it wasn't his business to know that yet... He'd learn it when he was elected.

Today, he's an expert on the negotiations that took place...

Ive been doing deals for a long time, Ive been making lots of wonderful deals great deals thats what I do, Mr. Trump said in his speech. Never, ever, ever in my life have I seen any transaction as incompetently negotiated as our deal with Iran.
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#22 cravnravn

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 02:49 AM

Trump didn't negotiate the Iran deal, that was our buddy Barry all on his own.
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#23 dc.

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 06:37 AM

... I know he didn't... ???

 

The point is, how can he claim one day to be ignorant of foreign affairs because they aren't "his business" right now and then the next claim to be an expert on a negotiation he didn't take part in and most people didn't take part in?


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#24 Spen

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 01:47 PM

... I know he didn't... ???

 

The point is, how can he claim one day to be ignorant of foreign affairs because they aren't "his business" right now and then the next claim to be an expert on a negotiation he didn't take part in and most people didn't take part in?

 

Because he's the best at learning stuff quickly! The best!


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#25 vmax

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:27 PM

For now, untill I know more about him and others, Sanders has my vote....

http://www.msn.com/e...e9UUF?ocid=iehp


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#26 dc.

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 07:15 PM

There's a weird phenomenon out there that I think Sanders might just get a hold of...

 

When people go hard right, no one is surprised and they get a lot of attention and a lot of "juice" of sorts. And as much as it is spectacle to some, to others it is because far to the right is that "populist" vibe and many are willing to grab onto it - even if the message isn't actually what they believe in. But on the left, many on the left are scared to go hard left. They see the excitement for hard right categories as evidence that the best they can hope for is to "sit in the middle" and not look too crazy. And largely, it's worked on the Presidential level of course...

 

However, I am pretty sure that going hard left - as Bernie is - could result in the same positives that the right sees. The populism, the anti-establishment, the 'take it to the man,' the 'give us what we deserve' vibe... that's still going to get a lot of attention. And I wouldn't doubt that many who claim to be "far right" wind up supporting "far left" ....

 

But then again, I could be full of shit. 


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#27 dc.

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:07 PM

A lesson the Trumpster always reminds me of... he's the worst, but so many imitate it:

 

Donald mocks women's looks, like Carly Fiorina. People mock Donald's looks and hair. He says it's all fair game, he's just giving it like he's getting it, right? Not quite. People make fun of Donald's hair... just to make fun of his hair. But no one ever said, "Donald has bad hair... therefore he'd be an awful President" nor "Donald has bad hair... therefore I win the argument! Because he's ugly!" But the Donald says just those things about other people... Rosie is a loser, so I win. Meghan Kelly is a bimbo, so I win. Carly Fiorina's "face" haha - she can't be President.

 

It reminds me of this one... liberals called George Bush a mass murderer and war criminal and stupid. Therefore, we all get to say whatever we want about Obama. It's all fair.

 

Except, vile as those attacks against Bush might have been, at least they were based on his actions and his policies. The attacks against Obama... certainly some are fair, many are about his policies. But from before his election, many attacks started and ended with his race, his religion, his family's history... That doesn't win an argument. It proves you're a bigot.

 

Now I'm just venting, lol - but it does bother me. The attacks are the worst of politics. But if you're going to attack someone, at least do so on merit not on identity. 


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#28 thundercleetz

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:48 PM

Force - certainly don't disagree with a lot of your general idea; in fact, an argument could be made that such a swing started decades ago and of course that even Obama is a result of that kind of political movement/system.
 
BUT, demographically, the numbers are clear - the truly scary, sad and hateful ideas that come from the likes of Trump and his ilk are overwhelmingly supported by older, whiter men. And simply put, that demographic is fading fast. It's why the GOP will have trouble winning the presidency again under the current system and given their current brand of politics.


Your reasons above are exactly why the DNC will do whatever it takes to give Hillary the nomination over Sanders. Hillary gives them a big advantage from a demographics standpoint, lots of unknowns with Bernie, at the moment.

http://fivethirtyeig...verywhere-else/

I respect Sanders for not accepting lobbyist or Super PAC money, and for wanting to abolish private prisons, but that's about all I agree with him on.

Also, while I agree with your comment on the GOP in general in regards to demographics (I'm assuming you're referencing this study: http://www.latinodec...in-2016-to-win/), specifically with candidates like Cruz or Walker, Trump seems to be demonstrating a range of demographic and ideological support, despite the stupid comments he made:

http://mobile.nytime....html?referrer=

http://www.washingto...epublicans-yet/

On the GOP Establishment side, much like the DNC will try and push Hilary, the RNC is going to do whatever it takes to make Jeb Bush as the candidate. Jeb speaks Spanish fluently, has a Mexican-American family, and remember, GW Bush polled with Hispanics over 40% and was fairly liberal with immigration.

Interesting take on Trump and the Hispanic vote:

http://www.usatoday....oters/30697991/

Still very early in the election season so anything can happen. Fun stuff to follow though.
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#29 dc.

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 05:05 AM

Re: Trump demographics... Aren't those studies all based on his GOP supporters only? I haven't seen anything that says he'll hold that same level of support among a broader demographic, including independents and liberals.

Re: Bernie. I honestly haven't looked super deep, but I agree with finance reform, higher taxes on high earners (Trump said it too) and broader affordability of healthcare and college.

Re: Hillary and Jeb. I agree with the establishment push happening. And ugh.
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#30 thundercleetz

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 07:02 AM

The NYT article is among GOP voters, I believe, but it shows Trump might not have problems with Republican voter turnout like Romney had. The Washington Post article cites trends toward Trump in national polls among non-white voters, numbers are still overwhelming in favor of Hillary however. The USA Today article is an opinion piece I found interesting.
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#31 dc.

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 11:07 AM

Several articles today show Hillary really falling against all... But as you said, is so early. Hypotheticals are so hard to poll. I'm going to hold firm that the GOP will struggle to win a national election ... Hillary might change that though with all her negatives
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#32 GrubberRaven

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 06:59 AM

Were there any answers given last night?  Seriously...is the Republican party just trolling us now?


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#33 Spen

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 03:09 PM

Were there any answers given last night?  Seriously...is the Republican party just trolling us now?


I saw someone joke on Twitter that Trump's closing statement should be: "Live from New York, it's Saturday Night!"
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#34 dc.

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 03:51 PM

I was actually surprised at the number of answers we did hear... Just didn't like a lot of them. I still think it's scary that the most sane people on that stage are named Bush and Paul.

I'm still lost in the praising Reagan (deficit, Iran Contra, etc) while blasting the new Iran deal and any stimulus funds...
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#35 thundercleetz

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 11:50 AM

Anyone catch the debate the other night? I like Jim Webb a lot. Military experience but not hawkish, great education, voluntarily stepped away from Senate, seems like a moderate who's willing to approach the job from a common sense perspective. It is a shame the most moderate candidates (Webb, Chafee, Kasich) are buried in the polls and will not get a legitimate look.

From a strategic perspective, I think Hillary did what she needed to do in the first debate to reaffirm her status as the Democratic front runner. Bernie didn't disappoint to his followers, but I will be interested to see if he gets any significant bump in the polls outside of less populated, demographically homogeneous states with white, progressive strongholds like Iowa, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, etc. I think Bernie is going to have a hard time connecting with the non-white voter bases, something Hillary connects with very well.
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#36 dc.

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 04:13 PM

I didn't really care for Webb. Chafee - while I like his written positions - is just a buffoon on stage. He actually said, that he voted to repeal Glass-Steagal because "he had just gotten to the Senate and it was 90-5"

 

I agree on Hillary. I still don't care for her. I don't want another Bush or Clinton. I don't like her opportunism or elitism. I would still worry as the DNC if she can hold up in a general election without sounding harsh and condescending.

 

I am interested - O'Malley didn't do great but definitely didn't flop. I have heard rumors the media will eventually pick him up a bit because they want more of a 'race' against Hillary. 


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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster too. And when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares also into you.

#37 GrubberRaven

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 04:45 PM

Bernie seems like he's creating a race.


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#38 dc.

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 07:58 PM

I don't disagree but I think the media doesn't love covering him. The reality is in money, donors and crowds, Bernie is killing everyone... Even Trump. But you don't hear it.

I also think his struggles with minorities, which may be overrated, could also be a major struggle for him and the media seems to be betting on that...
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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster too. And when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares also into you.

#39 Spen

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 10:12 PM

I like Bernie but I don't think he can win. And if he did he couldn't get the changes he wants through Congress.
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#40 GrubberRaven

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 06:26 AM

Hillary's smugness, and the her whole "I'll be the first woman president" angle is nauseating...


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