tsylvester

He is terrible, no instincts, not very football savy, just good enough athleticism to make teams interested in him. Why they can't find a returner who can hang onto the ball is beyond me, they are plenty. This is a desperate move by the team who needs cornerbacks in a bad way... Another Bama retread.

1) do you know the route progressions? 2)do you know the audibles? B)do you know what Joe is allowed to audible to?

Show me one quarterback who has had as many coordinators as Joe has had since they were drafted and how well they did? Now break down the talent around them, I'll wait. I get what you are saying, and agree to a point. However, as I said, it is rare for teams to throw the ball 40+ times a game and win, Consistently.

Look, we both know stats can be and are often misleading. Since his contract, he blew out a knee and hurt his back, if you look at all the qbs who had the same injuries, guess what you see? A decline until they fully heal a year later. Most teams lose when a qb has to throw 50 times a game, especially teams with the porous offensive line and horrible qide receivers this organization has had over the years. I am not saying Joe is Tom Brady nor Aaron Rogers, I am saying that play design has been and was an issue in this and other games. I gave Marty credit for the few games this year that they used good combinations of routes and play calling, if you remember the 13 for 13 in redzone thread. I did not use stats, I called up two plays and can use 20 more in this past game ( and other games) where the route combinations were terrible, not conducive to getting receivers open. One that was in this game is a good example, on the last drive to tie the game where Moore got open and got the 20 yards needed. A shallow cross under verticle & a seam route. It beats man coverage which it did then. A perfect example of a good play design. Marty had bee using designs for man coverage with receivers who can't beat man before this year. Yeaterday, he used old designs with players who for some reason, had no legs, even those wide outs who nornally excell against man were slow yesterday. So tell me, 6 drops, 15 purpose throw aways, how is that on Joe & his stats?... How is it Joe's fault when they clearly have the defensive front tired, they stop running the ball? This is a coaching issue, both Harbs for not having the players ready, and Marty for poor play calling. Stats have little to do with this one.

I have to disagree Papa. Let's look at one play design. They keep 3 tight ends in, two to help block, one goes on a deep post, one receiver to the strong side (same side as the receiving tight end) does a simple short out route. The back, leaks out to the weak side. Now, there is no play action, no crossing so the linebackers don't bite up, they drop into their coverage lanes, a depth of 15 yards, the safeties are deep. What is Joe supposed to do? The line collapses on him, there is a tiny, tiny window between the safety and backers that the tight end never reaches before Joe has to throw. So he throws into that window, the ball falls incomplete; 3 defenders in that window. Had their been a play action or an underneath crossing route, either would draw the SAM backer up, allowing the end to get a free release & get to the spot with a larger window. That is not on Joe, that is Marty; play design. Even the pick at the goal line was not all Joe's fault. Everyone knew that play was coming, even then, had the ball not been tipped, it hits the tight end right between the numbers. Does he catch it? Doubtful, there were two defenders closing in as we saw. I could go over 20 plays like those two in this game where both play design and predictability were the cause of the failure. A coach's job is to put their player in a position to succeed, and the coaches failed miserably in this game in doing this, on offense & defense. I would almost expect this type of simple game plan on a short week, but that was not the case. Don't get me started on the defense, Baker completed less than 50% of his passes when they blitzed, they did not blitz enough...

It is a protection issue they need to fix. That one was legit, the first one this year was illegal, nothing they can do about stopping that type of block.

Undisciplined teams will show their true colors when they are tired. The penalty by Moore lost the potential game, the ruffing the passer helped lose the game. Then again, had these officials been good or been allowed to call penalties, it would have been a blood bath of yellow on both teams. 3 man routes don't work against match up zone coverage. But then, when you have to max protect just to throw a 5 yard hitch route, you're in trouble. The route combinations were terrible most of the game, nothing consistently put together to beat their coverage. Four, five drops by receivers, one for a touchdown. Using the glorified back up qb in over time when you can finally run the ball? In regulation, when you have just driven the length of the field in 10 plays? Even with the clear flatness of this team, this game was winnable, but the coaching was horrible once again. Same old Ravens after a big win, flat, predictable, loss.

This entire team looks slow, lethargic, going through the motions. Even Brown seems to be stuck in first gear.. Must have been some party last night. This game is over....

Browns are good, strong defense, good runnning game, developing passing attack. They have a very good tight end, a position the Ravens struggle to cover. I would not bet on this game were I a betting man. But, I too pick the Browns, hope I am wrong....

Hey Rob, good to see you back. I agree, Dixon gets hurt if it rains too hard....

Ah yes, I see that, thanks Grub, I was wrong. 2 field goals, a touchdown & 2 pt conversion.

They can't run the ball! They can't run the ball! They can't run the ball! Oh and the pass defense is still a major weakness. Please Mike, stick to best donut flavors.....

From the high lights, yes, the start of the comeback for the Steelers, 14 unanswered points to end the first half. That game is more of a blowout if he doesn't fumble there, that is a 14 point swing. Imo, a fumble at the goal line is worse than any other fumble in the field of play.

He has worked hard with his fumbling issue but clearly has not fixed it. A fumble at the goal line deserves benching, those are truly game changing. He runs hard, has quick feet but it is time to give Buck the starting job.

19 yards total rushing, just amazing. Oh Stillers want a 2nd round pick for Bell, no takers.....

I've said it before I will say it again, I don't like it, I don't think it helps. Sure, later in the season they will have him throw from the wild cat, an rpo. A good side of it is that he is seeing the speed of an NFL team in live real action. Even so, why ruin or take that big of risk ruining the flow of the offense... Joe is one less blocker...

I only saw the first quarter, but looking at the stats, wow. The offensive line must have been great. The defense, not just a second half shut out, but... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000968841/article/big-ben-im-not-on-the-same-page-with-anybody Now that is extremely impressive. Jefferson's force fumble and recovery was a remarkable.

Nice, I admit I thought he was getting the yips, trying all those 60 yarders in practice throwing him off. Nice to see, so far, I was wrong.

Yeah, I've noticed teams are stacking the box, & wonder why there is no audible to a play action tight end down the middle. It guts cover 2, eats up man to man with the backers sucked up by the play action. So far it is clear, defenses don't respect the passing attack, not that there has been reason to so far. Even with the new receivers, if the line hasn't caved in, the receivers still struggle with seperation in man to man. The Steelers secondary has been bad, but their backers, especially Bostic, cover pretty darn good.

Ben wins in the playoffs, 2 Super Bowl wins, likely a HOF the way they vote now. Dalton, not so much. Yes, Ben is better and sorry, Bell being out is not the game day issue the Steelers have...

One difficult game to predict that is for sure. The best qb the Ravens defense has faced, we saw how Cinci went with their passing attack.1 This will be interesting.

Play calling, 12 for 12 is incredible, of course the players need credit too, we shall see what pace they keep up. I saw a show breaking down some redzone plays for the Rams, the route combinations used to exploit a defense, phenomenal stuff, stuff they used to have all the time, now the shows arw just fake banter garbage. In any event, it just shows that it takes more than just players to make the plays work and proper play calling, design goes a long way.

A ridiculous waste of a play. Teams are spying him, not ignoring him, not paying too much attention to him.

He still stinks, he has no feel for the game/ no instincts, can't cover, can't get off blocks.

Just look to the Panthers tight end, Greg Olson, foot breaks with big men is not good...