Biscut's presser

papasmurfbell · September 25, 2014

1. That could be or might be issues. They haven't been proven yet. Nothing has.
2. LOL - If the texts didn't have context, they weren't correct. We have a saying on the other board,
context is everything. Things are often taken out of context when reporting.
3. Again, you downyplay Shipley. Even KVV said it was an editor's mistake but he's supposed to read
the edits. If he disagrees he has to say so.
4. The editor doesn't know Shipley's name. It had to be given to him. KVV would know it.
5. ESPN made 16 changes to the original story after it was published and they're ducking for cover now.

Nobody has proven anything yet. It is a fluid situation but you seem quite dead set to believe Biscotti's word as gospel. So I guess you have never had someone elses work that was wrong get by you ever? One of Rays friends could have given Shiply's name mistakenly. I would guess KVV would be following up to see how that was missed. As for the txt's I can see Rays people showing them to KVV but not showing the ones that came from Ray to start that whole thing. The 2 issues in the article are not enough to make the whole thing bs.

If this article was a lie I wonder why Biscotti isn't suing for libel? That article hurt his and the teams reputation and has definately cast him money. A libel suit could get the money back and clear his name.

dc. · September 25, 2014

I've never called anything a fact or proven. Please show me where I did.

I'm not trying to lynch anyone. I'm trying to get to the heart of a matter. The team is not especially cooperative at the moment, which doesn't inspire confidence (in a fan). I want info, not cover up. Everything the Ravens have done sounds like cover up.

I'm not saying the ESPN article is true. I'm saying they need to address it in a more direct way than Steve standing there and saying, "it's not true" ten times.

TBird · September 25, 2014

You just used "cover up" before that you used "concealed," none of which has been proven. You made light of the espn errors.

Again, the team admitted to its mistakes. You can't get more cooperative than that. The dumb reporters couldnt even re-phrase their own questions when asked to. Here's a bunch of comments about ESPNs errors and theyre not from Ravens fans. They're from across the country. ESPN has had these errors before like Jameis Winston article that just came out. Somehow ESPN failed to leave out the important detail of a failed extortion attempt by the victim and her lawyer.

___________________________________________________

That is awful journalism to basically re-write texts and imply they are original quotes ...

permalink

[–]Ravensspooky981 325 points

1 day ago *

When the article was released it actually claimed AQ Shipley watched the week one game at Rice's house in Maryland. Which is impossible because Shipley started at center for the Colts that same day. It was very silently deleted from the ESPN article - apparently one of sixteen changes ESPN has made to the article without explanation.

Sounds like ESPN rushed the story to get it out immediately after the commissioner's press conference. But they did so at the expense of veracity and integrity of the article.

I don't think the entire thing is a lie. But you also can't look at it as the bible anymore. ESPN was clearly pushing a narrative.

[–]askinnydude 29 points

1 day ago

I hate that they do this. At least man up and print an apology or retraction when you fuck up instead of sweeping it under the rug. But nope, most of the time the errors just get deleted.

It was very silently deleted from the ESPN article.

[–]BrownsResident_Wizard 9 points

21 hours ago

I would trust a reporter who writes a retraction, clarification, or apology about something they were incorrect on rather than try and hide the fact. They write a few articles a day and have to provide breaking news all the time. I don't care if you get it wrong if you at least inform me you get it wrong. The reporter that does that would have some real weight behind what they say.

At least Peter King didn't pound his chest about the whole Ray Rice and what his sources said thing. He said now the guy is back tracking and saying it was a logical assumption on his part, but doesn't have the fact to back it up. I don't think it takes very much if anything away from Peter and I'll still be paying attention to what he says next time.

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[–]VikingsKushedCudi 101 points

1 day ago

Whats new? It's the same thing with the Jameis Winston article that just came out. Somehow ESPN failed to leave out the important detail of a failed extortion attempt by the victim and her lawyer. ESPN is a fucking joke almost to the point where I want to do something about it.

[–]SeahawksLemzz 100 points

1 day ago

TMZ more reliable sports journalists than ESPN, and ESPN bigger gossips. What a world we live in.

[–]Panthersroodypoo926 45 points

1 day ago

What a time to be alive when the two most credible, reliable journalistic entities are TMZ and Al-Jazeera

dc. · September 26, 2014

They have admitted SOME mistakes. You always say admitted "their mistakes" as if it's all just out in the open now. They have admitted SOME problems.

Here's my bigger issue, which you seem to ignore. The Ravens have only released information on the problems/mistakes of their work AFTER they have been called out or accused. So, that's why I say "conceal"... the fact that something is in the light does not mean everything is in the light. And when the things we know are only known because the team has been virtually forced to cooperate, that's not cooperation and it's not entirely trustworthy.

dc. · September 26, 2014

By the way... love the tweet dropped in there about Jameis Winston. That's exactly the story I want connected with this - another story about people overlooking and underplaying a serious matter; another example of favoritism towards athletes. That's the guy I want to talk about when I'm talking about the faults of ESPN reporting... (and the quality of institutional self-policing!)

TBird · September 26, 2014

They have admitted SOME mistakes. You always say admitted "their mistakes" as if it's all just out in the open now. They have admitted SOME problems.

Here's my bigger issue, which you seem to ignore. The Ravens have only released information on the problems/mistakes of their work AFTER they have been called out or accused. So, that's why I say "conceal"... the fact that something is in the light does not mean everything is in the light. And when the things we know are only known because the team has been virtually forced to cooperate, that's not cooperation and it's not entirely trustworthy.

So what? They finally admitted the mistakes. He came clean and that's why the rest of his

story is believeable to everyone but you. He came clean with the bad stuff, aplogized and regrets

doing it. He could have been like Nixon and said I'm not a crook and gone out that way but he

didn't. How many times are you gonna hang him? Again, I posted remarks from Bayless who said

he did fine and will be OK, so did his partner and others. The only one left in denial is you.

But if espn has other blemishes on their reporting plus all these errors I've pointed out, it is

really in bad shape.

He's also accused of meeting with Goody in Atlanta. That has not been proven, nor that HARBs wanted to cut Rice in Feb. None of the above has been proven which is why so many want an apology or retraction as those comments stated above and they were national comments.

Most people can see the errors of espn but you. Like the comment said, it's bad when we're down

to getting news from TMZ and Al Queda's site - Al Jereez-sp.

dc. · September 26, 2014

So what? They finally admitted the mistakes. He came clean and that's why the rest of his
story is believeable to everyone but you. He came clean and denied the wrong stuff and regrets
doing it. You wanna send him to prison or sell the team? The only one left in denial is you.

But if espn has other blemishes on their reporting plus all these errors I've pointed out, it is
really in bad shape.

He's also accused of meeting with Goody in Atlanta. That has not been proven, nor that HARBs wanted to cut Rice in Feb. None of the above has been proven which is why so many want an apology or retraction as those comments stated above and they were national comments.

Most people can see the errors of espn but you.

When did I say he needs to sell the team or anything of the like? I want him to own up and return himself and the front office to the level of credibility I believed they had until about 6 months ago. I'm not out to get anyone, I'm disappointed and pissed off.

And no - it's not believable to get caught later and then come clean. It never is.

"He came clean and denied the wrong stuff and regrets doing it."

1. He says he's come clean. That's the whole assertion that I'm arguing is probably untrue! I don't know why you think "everyone" seems to have bought this. That's far from the case. (where is your army of support for that argument?)

2. He denied the wrong stuff. He denied things that make him look bad and which you think are wrong. There is still great question as to what in the report is true. And Bisciotti has reason to want to deny things in there, obviously.

3. He regrets doing it. Again, he said he regrets it. I don't necessarily buy that. But I also don't necessarily buy that he has even acknowledged what he should truly regret. And, as I keep saying, he has only come to regret it because there has been such a shitstorm going his direction... what's he going to say? "Uh, you know... you all suck, I don't give an F"

I see ESPN's errors. But what about the Shipley error (regarding a date in Sept) changes the possible fraud committed in February, March, April and May? What about the text message miscommunication changes the rest?

And the fact that two other statements (Augusta and Harbs) are in denial... well, that's the whole issue! That's not apology worthy until someone can really refute that claim (both of which ESPN says are confirmed by multiple sources).

TBird · September 26, 2014

LOL - The evidence hasn't been presented from those ''confirmed sources.''

What about ESPN making changes to the original story to cover its. That's the real

cover up.

It's possible fraud. Nothing has been proven and Rice could make up an account number and put a name to it. ESPN is the one running for cover and all those comments above want an apology from them, not Bisc.

If you can't accept his apology, then that is really bad. You want him to hang because you're pissed off. You should really stop following the Ravens because no one that I've seen on the boards is as cold and pissed off over Bisc as you are.

It's a shame. There's enough evidence to dis-credit espn but not him but you

won't believe anything that's presented unless it makes him look bad.

TBird · September 26, 2014

LOL - No evidence has come from those "confirmed sources."

Anyone can make up a number and put a text name to it.

Again, atlanta, and HARBs haven't been proven. Bisc would have been suspended

himself by now like Jimmy Irsay was.

You're really cold if you can't accept a man's apology and admission who did nothing to you personally.

You're so pissed off that you will never be able to enjoy the Ravens again. You'll piss when they show Bisc in the sky box.

Sad, very sad but get back to me when he's been suspended or forced to sell the team because of the evidence from the ''confirmed sources.''

ILMAO

dc. · September 26, 2014

You are creating a bogey man to fight and it's not me.

Tell me one where I've said I want him to sell or even be punished. Tell once where I've said I'm so pissed off at him. I've told you my goal: for our team to look as good as it did in my eyes as before February.

So please, Mr Evidence, find me evidence of my intent in anything you said there.

I will admit that right now I gave mixed feelings when I watch the league, but not the Ravens in particular. As you said, any team would screw up and does. But that doesn't stop me from wanting my team to handle it better than the rest. I want to be able to defend my teams actions without reservations - that's not easy right now. My bigger reservations are about a league that is slowly losing my respect for the actions of all its played, coaches and owners.

dc. · September 26, 2014

Anyway, I'm through here. It get it, you're satisfied.

I'm not saying anything has been proven, but there are questions to be addressed.

I still wonder this: you're so worried about sources, and yet you can't seem to see that the only source your trusting, Steve, is equally motivated to give a story that has a slant. That's not calling him a liar. But it's reasonable to question his account and ask for more.

TBird · September 26, 2014

Whatever.

Just get back to me when he's suspended and forced to sell from all that evidence from those "confirmed (bogey) sources''.

In the meantime, try to enjoy the Ravens, if you can. I will as we should be

3-1 after Sunday.

papasmurfbell · September 26, 2014

You just used "cover up" before that you used "concealed," none of which has been proven. You made light of the espn errors.

Again, the team admitted to its mistakes. You can't get more cooperative than that. The dumb reporters couldnt even re-phrase their own questions when asked to. Here's a bunch of comments about ESPNs errors and theyre not from Ravens fans. They're from across the country. ESPN has had these errors before like Jameis Winston article that just came out. Somehow ESPN failed to leave out the important detail of a failed extortion attempt by the victim and her lawyer.

___________________________________________________

He said looks like when he used cover up. Why do you keep ignoring key words in statements?

They have admitted SOME mistakes. You always say admitted "their mistakes" as if it's all just out in the open now. They have admitted SOME problems.

Here's my bigger issue, which you seem to ignore. The Ravens have only released information on the problems/mistakes of their work AFTER they have been called out or accused. So, that's why I say "conceal"... the fact that something is in the light does not mean everything is in the light. And when the things we know are only known because the team has been virtually forced to cooperate, that's not cooperation and it's not entirely trustworthy.

Yeah that is PR 101. When you are caught doing something you admit to smaller things while deflecting bigger ones.

LOL - The evidence hasn't been presented from those ''confirmed sources.''

What about ESPN making changes to the original story to cover its. That's the real
cover up.

It's possible fraud. Nothing has been proven and Rice could make up an account number and put a name to it. ESPN is the one running for cover and all those comments above want an apology from them, not Bisc.

If you can't accept his apology, then that is really bad. You want him to hang because you're pissed off. You should really stop following the Ravens because no one that I've seen on the boards is as cold and pissed off over Bisc as you are.

It's a shame. There's enough evidence to dis-credit espn but not him but you
won't believe anything that's presented unless it makes him look bad.

Again why does Biscotti not sue for libel. If ESPN lied then they should be held accountable.

TBird · September 27, 2014

LOL - Nothing's been proven DC said: There's the 16 errors they changed after their initial report went out. All

that was uncovered by Deadspin which he refuses to accept. Then there was their own admission of the texts

and people having trouble understanding them. Those two have them running for cover which most people but dc

and Smurf recognize.

Here's another in a long list of comedy errors by them but some people just don't get it:

Here’s what Ley first said:

Ravens officials have said that they did not have a full picture of what happened in the elevator until the video was made public, but sources said the Ravens had a cell phone copy of the inside elevator video all along …

Here’s what ESPN said 25 minutes later:

"We want to correct an earlier report. The Ravens at no point had a cell phone video of that incident, but they had a detailed account."

They did correct it. Give them credit for that. But still, it diminishes the credibility of the investigation. And I think it might ultimately point to a flaw in the “Outside the Lines” investigation itself, which feels mushy in terms of what the head of security for the Ravens saw or didn’t see and knew or didn’t know about that video and who he told.

You can read an account of the ESPN gaffe and correction at Deadspin, which first reported it, here.

That's enough miscues to dis-credit ESPN entirely.

ESPN has excellent investigative reporters, but the channel’s credibility is deeply compromised by its multi-million-dollar contracts with the NFL and others. (Remember LeBron James making his Miami announcement in a primetime special on ESPN?) ESPN’s history of self-policing with ombudsmen has been a joke. So, ESPN does have a financial interest in pointing the finger at the Ravens rather than its business partner, the NFL.

That was reported by The Sun. The Ravens have their probs too but admitted to their mistakes.

LOL - UM, admitting that he didn't order the tape and forward it to the NFL is a big admission of guilt. That was one of the biggest charges vs him and he came clean. He had the presser to answer the charges vs him that were bogus and dispute them one by one. Otherwise, he would have really looked bad. As a result, he looked good and people are saying he'll be OK.

And yet, Another hole in ESPNs story:

Curiously, OTL's story doesn't ever mention the Associated Press report claiming that an NFL official did in fact have a copy of the elevator tape, seemingly accepting the NFL's explanation that nobody in the league office saw the tape until it was released by TMZ. Between that angle, which the reporters on this story surely didn't just forget about, and the people who look bad here working to save themselves, you can surely expect more revelations in the days and weeks to come.

This story has more holes than a pack of swiss cheese but you guys can't see it but carry on.

These are DCs exact words:

____________________________

I want him to own up and return himself and the front office to the level of credibility I believed they had until about 6 months ago. I'm not out to get anyone, I'm disappointed and pissed off.

___________________________

Again, he did own up to the mistakes he made. He said he's pissed off. That's a lot of hate right there. Ive seen Ravens fans

that would agree with him but he's so emotionally involved that he's pissed off. Again, the plundets above said Bisc did

fine and will be OK.

It just happened. Maybe he will sue. A lot of fans are calling for it

but he's not a vindictive guy.

dc. · September 27, 2014

These are DCs exact words:
____________________________

I want him to own up and return himself and the front office to the level of credibility I believed they had until about 6 months ago. I'm not out to get anyone, I'm disappointed and pissed off.
___________________________

Again, he did own up to the mistakes he made. He said he's pissed off. That's a lot of hate right there. Ive seen Ravens fans
that would agree with him but he's so emotionally involved that he's pissed off. Again, the plundets above said Bisc did
fine and will be OK.

It just happened. Maybe he will sue. A lot of fans are calling for it
but he's not a vindictive guy.

Dear Lord. That's a lot of twisting and inference on your part.

I'm not re-engaging in this whole thing. But I do want to say:

Being disappointed is not hate. I don't hate anything in this circumstance - except that we all have to deal with it. I simply do not believe Steve has been 100% honest with us. I have never said anything has been proven. But nothing Steve has said has been proven either. Steve held a press conference and did some interviews with his side of the story, but we have every reason to think that he would tell us what he wants and leave out some other info.

How is that hateful? How is that angry? How is that absurd?

You're fairly new here. If you think I'm emotionally involved in anything related to this team, you're incorrect. I just think the team handled itself poorly. And they haven't done much to fix that in my eyes. (Sorry if that is too "extreme")

PS - I couldn't disagree more that ESPN is protecting the NFL by going after the Ravens. In many respects, they are one and the same. Attacking the Ravens does not protect the NFL. I think the explanation for KVV ignoring the AP report about the video to the NFL is simply that he was focusing on the Ravens' actions more than anything else. 95% of the story is told from the perspective of inside the Ravens organization. What may or may not have been happening in the NFL is always told, in the story, from the perspective of Ravens' people guessing about it.

dc. · September 27, 2014

By the way - if you trust Steve's words about himself, why don't you trust mine about me?

Steve said he's sorry and he regrets the situation. And you say, "OK, Steve!"

I say, "I'm not angry, I just don't think they're telling the truth." And you say, "Personal vendetta, emotionally clouded, nutjob, stop following a team you hate!"

Do you not see the disconnect there?

Tornado700 · September 27, 2014

You know what? Suppose he did lie. . I'll still go to the games. I'll still buy beer there. I'll still buy jerseys, etc. etc.

Call me what you want but at least I'm not a self rightious hypocrite like most on this thread here. You haters never lied about anything, never cheated, never erred, never made mistakes, never sinned- never did anything wrong- not once in your entire lives. Yet, you think it's alright to judge others.

If I ever stop going to games, it will be because I can't stand the sight of you hypocrites- the fans, not the team.

dc. · September 27, 2014

I haven't asked for a punishment. I've asked for honesty.

In fact, if you review my other parts in general you'll find that I'm not really on board with the full Rice indefinite suspension. I believe in second chances.

I'm more upset that the organization is covering itself by tanking Ray. If they were happy with his punishment in August, I think it's unfair to change that now. And now they're making him seem like the liar or cheat, which is what bothers me more.

All I want is a complete story. When we have it, we can then discuss if any "punishment" is necessary. But if they did lie and cover up, I think it would be fair to lose some respect for an organization that prides itself on just the opposite.

TBird · September 27, 2014

You know what? Suppose he did lie. . I'll still go to the games. I'll still buy beer there. I'll still buy jerseys, etc. etc.
Call me what you want but at least I'm not a self rightious hypocrite like most on this thread here. You haters never lied about anything, never cheated, never erred, never made mistakes, never sinned- never did anything wrong- not once in your entire lives. Yet, you think it's alright to judge others.
If I ever stop going to games, it will be because I can't stand the sight of you hypocrites- the fans, not the team.

Rack it.

Best post of the thread. Kudos to you.

TBird · September 27, 2014

Dear Lord. That's a lot of twisting and inference on your part.

I'm not re-engaging in this whole thing. But I do want to say:

Being disappointed is not hate. I don't hate anything in this circumstance - except that we all have to deal with it. I simply do not believe Steve has been 100% honest with us. I have never said anything has been proven. But nothing Steve has said has been proven either. Steve held a press conference and did some interviews with his side of the story, but we have every reason to think that he would tell us what he wants and leave out some other info.

How is that hateful? How is that angry? How is that absurd?

You're fairly new here. If you think I'm emotionally involved in anything related to this team, you're incorrect. I just think the team handled itself poorly. And they haven't done much to fix that in my eyes. (Sorry if that is too "extreme")

PS - I couldn't disagree more that ESPN is protecting the NFL by going after the Ravens. In many respects, they are one and the same. Attacking the Ravens does not protect the NFL. I think the explanation for KVV ignoring the AP report about the video to the NFL is simply that he was focusing on the Ravens' actions more than anything else. 95% of the story is told from the perspective of inside the Ravens organization. What may or may not have been happening in the NFL is always told, in the story, from the perspective of Ravens' people guessing about it.

That was after 95% or more of ESPNs story was proven wrong but KVV conveniently left out an important piece which is OK by you.

You cant even agree they did something wrong after they made changes to the original story and the Shipley error. Now this omission and you make excuses for that.

It's ESPN looking bad here not the Ravens.

Yes, I'm new here but Im a veteran of posting since the earliest Ravens boards and I go on 3 boards now and

while many will agree with you I haven't seen the hate and taking it so personal as from you. You keep making

excuses for every major discrepency point out to you. Thats a personal slant vs Bisciotti. Your mind is so made

up you can't see the errors and even if they did cover it up, they tried to protect someone they loved. That is

only normal, not like Nixon sending a team in to get dirt on someone and then covering it up.

I respect you and you can think what you want. I'm just forgiving the Ravens as they came clean with me and

the espn story has been proven wrong but you can't see it.

You will never enjoy Ravens again as you keep saying their office is so corrupted in the Rice case.

dc. · September 27, 2014

I'm done with the fight on ESPN. I responded to your ability to read my mind and tell others about my intents.

I disagree that anywhere near that much of the ESPN story has been proven false. The Raven's have denied 95% of it. That is not the same as being proven false.

TBird · September 27, 2014

Of course you disagree because of the hate but here's another error for you and the sources.

AQ was a training partner for ray at Jakobe's training facility and not a random guy..

So those sources are great.. Yea, sure. When one of the few names released is proven wrong, you're in

trouble. Thats the prob with bombshell reports. They blow up in your face.

I'm sure you'll have an excuse for that one too like the KVV omission.

BTW, ESPN must really be feeling the heat. They just suspended Simmons for a couple of weeks for being too

hard on Goodell. ILMAO - they publish a phony report that has been shot to pieces about the Ravens but

fire someone for attacking Goodell.

Things aren't too kosher at ESPN.

:nono:

papasmurfbell · September 27, 2014

That was after 95% or more of ESPNs story was proven wrong but KVV conveniently left out an important piece which is OK by you.

You cant even agree they did something wrong after they made changes to the original story and the Shipley error. Now this omission and you make excuses for that.

It's ESPN looking bad here not the Ravens.

Yes, I'm new here but Im a veteran of posting since the earliest Ravens boards and I go on 3 boards now and
while many will agree with you I haven't seen the hate and taking it so personal as from you. You keep making
excuses for every major discrepency point out to you. Thats a personal slant vs Bisciotti. Your mind is so made
up you can't see the errors and even if they did cover it up, they tried to protect someone they loved. That is
only normal, not like Nixon sending a team in to get dirt on someone and then covering it up.

I respect you and you can think what you want. I'm just forgiving the Ravens as they came clean with me and
the espn story has been proven wrong but you can't see it.

You will never enjoy Ravens again as you keep saying their office is so corrupted in the Rice case.

How do you get 95%? You are ignoring your own link.

papasmurfbell · September 27, 2014

I'm done with the fight on ESPN. I responded to your ability to read my mind and tell others about my intents.

I disagree that anywhere near that much of the ESPN story has been proven false. The Raven's have denied 95% of it. That is not the same as being proven false.

Yep!!!

Of course you disagree because of the hate but here's another error for you and the sources.

AQ was a training partner for ray at Jakobe's training facility and not a random guy..

So those sources are great.. Yea, sure. When one of the few names released is proven wrong, you're in
trouble. Thats the prob with bombshell reports. They blow up in your face.

I'm sure you'll have an excuse for that one too like the KVV omission.

BTW, ESPN must really be feeling the heat. They just suspended Simmons for a couple of weeks for being too
hard on Goodell. ILMAO - they publish a phony report that has been shot to pieces about the Ravens but
fire someone for attacking Goodell.

Things aren't too kosher at ESPN.

You keep going to 2 parts that everyone has acknowledged is an error and that equates to the whole article. That is mind numbingly stupid.

dc. · September 27, 2014

Of course you disagree because of the hate but here's another error for you and the sources.

No, I disagree because "being denied" is not the same as "being disproven."

Bill Clinton was accused of infidelity. He denied it. Neither side, at that point in the conversation, has proven anything.

Biscut's presser

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