Harbs, yes, it's time

[GrubberRaven]

As much as I loathe Vrabel, we need a coach like him.

Harbs knows he is safe because he is mid at this point and not the worst.  He should be gone.

[papasmurfbell]

I’d love vrabel.  There are some good options out there.  I don’t see any retreads I’m interested in except maybe spags.  

[tsylvester]

It's Ripley's believe it or not

Ravens rumors: ESPN insider teases big coaching changes. Would that include John Harbaugh? - Yahoo Sports https://share.google/0qAwU0pThnjNhMqJM

Questions keep piling up in Baltimore as the Ravens try to make sense of a 6-7 record and a sputtering offense. Coming off a 27-22 loss to the Steelers, John Harbaugh already had to bat away conspiracy theories that Lamar Jackson’s ankle is quietly limiting him, insisting the quarterback “looked good physically” and was “moving well” in his return.

The tape and numbers suggest something is off with the attack, though, and that broader unease is now feeding a new round of speculation about where this franchise is headed next.

ESPN’s Dan Graziano said he keeps getting asked whether the Ravens or Steelers jobs could unexpectedly open up if either team misses the playoffs. His answer was cautious but telling: he doesn’t expect Baltimore or Pittsburgh to move on from their long-time head coaches, yet he admitted that if he is wrong, those openings would “shake up” the entire hiring cycle.

...............

Fellow insider Jeremy Fowler focused more squarely on Baltimore. In his view, the Ravens qualify as “really interesting” because their current record does not match their roster talent, and he noted that internal frustration with the lack of offensive production has been building.

Fowler still expects Harbaugh to remain in charge, but he described 2026 as more likely to bring a reset with “multiple staff changes” than a clean head-coaching break. In other words, the chair under Harbaugh is not exactly on fire, yet the people around him may not all survive another year like this.

[tsylvester]

Michigan just fired Moore for having a sexual relationship with a staffer, no word on if it was the mascot......

Anywho,  how neto torpedo would it be for this Harbs to take the other Harbs' old job..... just some fun on a cold Wednesday 

[oldno82]

Unfortunately, Fowler is probably right. I think Steve is reluctant to fire his head coach buddy right now without giving him another chance with another staff. I don't think that is optimal because really talented staff applicants will want to go with new head coaches being hired rather than with a coach, Harbs, who will be considered a lame duck with a possibility of being fired next season and the newly hired staff would just be looking for a job again in just one year.

Besides a new HC the team could use some really talented scouting/drafting personnel who can scout guys in the trenches. Looking for an edge rusher has also become a perennial hunt since EDC took over. DeCosta has found the magic ingredient for wide receivers but seems to be at a loss in getting us some real pass rushing young talent.

Whatever happens, we need guys on the O- and D-lines that can play at a high level almost right away. That is, if they're serious about doing a 1 to 2 year rebuild.

And let's not forget Lamar's contract extension/renegotiation. As I mentioned before, we might be looking for a new franchise quarterback in 2 years. We need somebody who'll be able to scout for one and somebody who can coach one.

This may be more like a 3-4 year project if we need to go with a new QB.

 

[papasmurfbell]

Let Lamar walk or trade him to a sucker team.

[oldno82]

Therein lies the problem. We are on the hook for that $70 mil/year cap hit for the next two years and unless his skills can somehow rejuvenate and, he shows it, what is he really worth? To any team?

[papasmurfbell]

Some teams may just think he was hurt this yr.  We can fix things.  Look at these teams that make dumb moves all the time.

[oldno82]

Let's see how Lamar does over the rest of the season. If he's still in a funk and we can work out the cap details, I can see making a trade for picks. 

Keep in mind, though, that will commit us to a longer term rebuild back to respectability and playoff status.

[papasmurfbell]

I think Lamar is always going to be diminishing from now on.  The speed and the quicks will erode more and more and make. Lamar throw the ball.  I don’t think he can be just a drop back qb.  So it’s best to get picks asap and not waste anymore good money on him.

[tsylvester]

I disagree papa, he has shown he can be a drop back passer prior to this year. Yes, he used his legs, but begrudgingly.

This year, I don't know what the issue is, we know he had personal issues early in the season, but was fine, save for the turnovers, in the first 2 games.

After that, his accuracy went way down.

Some say because of hamstring, then his ankle, then his toe.

Yet last game he was a clean bill of health and still could not complete easy throws.

Me, I think all of rhe above which all lead to him missing practice and now, he skips every Wednesday.

This can throw off your timing with the receivers and I think that is a large part.

Also doesnt allow you to work against reading the defense alignments. Sure, you can watch tape, but nothing beats doing so from behind center

[papasmurfbell]

The way I see it is once the best part of your game is not a threat less assets are needed to stop the other part.  These coordinators know he likes to throw between the numbers so you flood that area with dbs and limit his success throwing.  I believe it will get worse yr on yr.

[oldno82]

I think Lamar's body is just wearing down. He can be a pocket passer (look at the last 2 seasons) but he's definitely off his game now. I'm not even sure he has enough quickness left to be as mobile in the pocket as he needs to be. I thought maybe it was just one physical ailment but I think it is more than just one plus I really do think he's got some emotional issues going on. Not being able to achieve and deliver on his Super Bowl dream is affecting his confidence which makes him play worse which in turn affects his confidence again. It's a vicious cycle combined with diminishing physical skills. And of course our lousy offensive line play and coaching are a killer too.

He's still young. He might yet recover. That's why I say lets give him the rest of this season and see where we are at then. 

But there's no doubt he has me very concerned especially with that sieve of an offensive line.

[papasmurfbell]

When has he been just a pocket qb?

[oldno82]

I've seen many,many plays where he stands in the pocket and goes through his reads before completing a pass in the previous 2 seasons. 

[papasmurfbell]

2 hours ago, oldno82 said:

I've seen many,many plays where he stands in the pocket and goes through his reads before completing a pass in the previous 2 seasons. 

But he always had the threat to take off.  That is a dual threat.  If you are just going to stand in there like a Brady or rivers then you don’t have to keep an eye out for a run.  You can just play the receivers,  

[oldno82]

I see your point. He doesn't appear quick enough anymore to get those big long runs he used to. 

[tsylvester]

1 hour ago, papasmurfbell said:

But he always had the threat to take off.  That is a dual threat.  If you are just going to stand in there like a Brady or rivers then you don’t have to keep an eye out for a run.  You can just play the receivers,  

Johs Allen, Steve Young, Warren Moon, just three, 1 today, two from yester-year.

All can run, Moon was told to stop, Young chose to stop, both focussed on pocket awareness, reading defenses.

This is what we talked about last year and the year after. How obvious it was that Lamar was working toward being that type of quarterback. We saw the great success, using his legs to scramble and buy time. Struggle at times trying to decide if he should run.

This year, he clearly took a step back, he cant even scramble properly and looks afraid to run.

Something, this year is wrong with him; what, we may never know. Lack of confidence in the line? In the olay calls? In his teammates? 

[tsylvester]

Been a lot of skuttlebutt that Monken will be fired at season's end, especially if this offense keeps floundering.

Frankly, if they fire him and not Orr, I might be so disappointed in this org that I dont watch any games next year. Oh it wont bother them, nothing we fans do, for the most part, can force the hand of the coaches/owner.

Remember the Aints? All of those fans with bags on their heads? The empty seats in Tampa during this long, dark days? 

Empty seats only lead to a team moving, hello, that is how we got the Ravens, because the Browns kept inept front office, coaches, leading to years of losing.

But how could you possibly say the coordinator who turned this offense into not just the best in team history, but one of the best in league history, should be fired?

When, on the same team, you have a coordinator who took a top 10 defense and has them in the bottom of the league, two years in a row. This, and he is the one you keep?

I realize I am a bit biased, big Georgia fan, pushed, hoped Todd would be the oc here, but it is pretty clear, the play calling on offense, is not the issue. Monken has tried to implement more plays from the same formations to help skew tendencies. He has plays designed to get people open, I know, I saw it at Georgia, we saw the past two years here.

Does he decide who plays on the offensive line? Does he coach them? Does he coach the wide recievers? The quarterback, other than what the plays are designed to do?

No, he is not the problem, but the tea leaves say he will be the fall guy.

[papasmurfbell]

7 hours ago, oldno82 said:

I see your point. He doesn't appear quick enough anymore to get those big long runs he used to. 

Without that game changing running ability you don’t get the spy or an extra rusher to go after Lamar.  It’s an extra db or 2 eliminating the areas he likes to throw.  

7 hours ago, tsylvester said:

Johs Allen, Steve Young, Warren Moon, just three, 1 today, two from yester-year.

All can run, Moon was told to stop, Young chose to stop, both focussed on pocket awareness, reading defenses.

This is what we talked about last year and the year after. How obvious it was that Lamar was working toward being that type of quarterback. We saw the great success, using his legs to scramble and buy time. Struggle at times trying to decide if he should run.

This year, he clearly took a step back, he cant even scramble properly and looks afraid to run.

Something, this year is wrong with him; what, we may never know. Lack of confidence in the line? In the olay calls? In his teammates? 

Young and moon turned into great drop back guys,. It also lengthened their careers.  Allan is within 2 yrs of breaking down to often he has been asked to be Mike alstot.  Just wait for that shoulder injury that keeps him from throwing right.  He will be like newton.  

2 hours ago, tsylvester said:

Been a lot of skuttlebutt that Monken will be fired at season's end, especially if this offense keeps floundering.

Frankly, if they fire him and not Orr, I might be so disappointed in this org that I dont watch any games next year. Oh it wont bother them, nothing we fans do, for the most part, can force the hand of the coaches/owner.

Remember the Aints? All of those fans with bags on their heads? The empty seats in Tampa during this long, dark days? 

Empty seats only lead to a team moving, hello, that is how we got the Ravens, because the Browns kept inept front office, coaches, leading to years of losing.

But how could you possibly say the coordinator who turned this offense into not just the best in team history, but one of the best in league history, should be fired?

When, on the same team, you have a coordinator who took a top 10 defense and has them in the bottom of the league, two years in a row. This, and he is the one you keep?

I realize I am a bit biased, big Georgia fan, pushed, hoped Todd would be the oc here, but it is pretty clear, the play calling on offense, is not the issue. Monken has tried to implement more plays from the same formations to help skew tendencies. He has plays designed to get people open, I know, I saw it at Georgia, we saw the past two years here.

Does he decide who plays on the offensive line? Does he coach them? Does he coach the wide recievers? The quarterback, other than what the plays are designed to do?

No, he is not the problem, but the tea leaves say he will be the fall guy.

I have an idea and a plan.

[oldno82]

I'd hate to see Monken go. I don't think he is the problem. And, not to add fuel to the fire, but I thought Harbaugh threw Monken under the bus several weeks ago during the 1-5 run and I didn't like it. I got the impression Harbs was saying it was the offensive coaches fault that the offense was having such a difficult time. 

It pissed me off at the time especially since wtf gives a guy with only a special teams background the balls to dump on his OC when that OC had created the best offense this franchise has had in all of its existence? I really thought it was a cheap shot and showed a lack of class by Harbs.

Accountability is just a word to him.