ravinmaniac52 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 -- Buccaneers Fire Jon Gruden & Bruce Allen -- Fri Jan 16, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com The St. Petersburg Times reports the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have fired HC Jon Gruden and GM Bruce Allen. "We will be forever grateful for Jon bringing us the Super Bowl title and we thank Bruce for his contributions to our franchise,'' said Bucs co-chairman Joel Glazer. "However, after careful consideration, we feel this decision is in the best interest of our organization moving forward.'' After failing to reach the playoffs for the fourth time in six years, the Glazer family which owns the Bucs decided it was time for a change after seven seasons with Gruden and five with Allen. Tampa Bay was the first team in 15 years to start 9-3 and fail to reach the playoffs, losing their last four games in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeshopper Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Didn't see that one comming. He did inherit a very deep and solid team from Dungy that he HC'd to the Super Bowl....not like he turned it around there...but he did take them over the top that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpearSrai Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I hope they have a guy lined up to come in... There aren't many guys on the market better than Gruden. Maybe they're thinking Shanahan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceEight Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Saw this coming long before Shanahan. I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I don't except Gruden to be without a job for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keveeno Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Good, he'll get a job somewhere else and Ryan can stay here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceEight Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Good, he'll get a job somewhere else and Ryan can stay here. Except that now there's a job open in Tampa. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keveeno Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Forgot about that lol. He would fit good there.. they got a good defense already. Shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Gruden will be our new DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinmaniac52 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Raheem Morris http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=As0L...p&type=lgns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceEight Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I don't think I'd be in the minority here if I asked: who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I don't think I'd be in the minority here if I asked: who? I heard on NFL Radio that Morris was defensive backs coach in Tampa the past two years, then was supposed to take over the DC job from Kiffin in '09. I guess the Bucs took the Jim Zorn track and just made him the HC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceEight Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I guess there's really nothing I can say, considering we hired a special teams coordinator twelve months ago. Considering that family and their treatment of coaches, I just kind of expected a big name (Shanahan, Ryan, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpearSrai Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I guess they like what the team is doing on defense, but want to try a new style of offense. With Kiffin out, the only way to do that is by getting rid of Gruden (who presumably runs the offense). Then their two choices would be to hire a new offensive-minded head coach or promoting the highest-ranked defensive guy to HC and hiring a new OC (or allowing the guy in place to actually run the offense for once). Obviously they went with the second choice... now let's see who they end up using as OC. That's the real story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I guess they like what the team is doing on defense, but want to try a new style of offense. With Kiffin out, the only way to do that is by getting rid of Gruden (who presumably runs the offense) and promoting the highest-ranked defensive guy within your organization (Kiffin's replacement at DC). The real story is going to be who they hire as OC, if they get a new one. Goodbye Jeff Garcia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpearSrai Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Goodbye Jeff Garcia? I don't think Garcia is the problem... they lost a game late in the season where he threw for 321 yds, 2 TD, 0 INT. (L 38-23 to CAR) Obviously they'll replace him at some point, but how about getting a good o-line in place first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceEight Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I guess they like what the team is doing on defense, but want to try a new style of offense. With Kiffin out, the only way to do that is by getting rid of Gruden (who presumably runs the offense). Then their two choices would be to hire a new offensive-minded head coach or promoting the highest-ranked defensive guy to HC and hiring a new OC (or allowing the guy in place to actually run the offense for once). Obviously they went with the second choice... now let's see who they end up using as OC. That's the real story. I don't really think that's the case. I think Kirwan on nfl.com hit the nail on the head when he mentioned how hodge-podge Gruden ran things. Every year was patchwork, and there was no plan. A man like Morris will plan out his success for the long-term, rather than flip the roster (see: QB) every year. And Garcia is definitely not the problem. He's never been, and it's a shame that the teams he's been on haven't realized that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I don't think Garcia is the problem... they lost a game late in the season where he threw for 321 yds, 2 TD, 0 INT. (L 38-23 to CAR) Obviously they'll replace him at some point, but how about getting a good o-line in place first. I am not saying Jeff was the problem. Jeff was a perfect fit for Gruden's offense. You mentioned maybe they are going to try a new offensive system, to which I agree with you. Garcia has not been very good outside of Gruden's offense and a WC offense. I could see Garcia maybe sticking around for a year, but Tampa Bay needs to be looking for their long-term QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpearSrai Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I am not saying Jeff was the problem. Jeff was a perfect fit for Gruden's offense. You mentioned maybe they are going to try a new offensive system, to which I agree with you. Garcia has not been very good outside of Gruden's offense and a WC offense. I could see Garcia maybe sticking around for a year, but Tampa Bay needs to be looking for their long-term QB. To be fair, how many offenses has Garcia played in that weren't west coast? Detroit? Cleveland? Hardly a good sample size to examine his limitations outside of the WC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 To be fair, how many offenses has Garcia played in that weren't west coast? Detroit? Cleveland? Hardly a good sample size to examine his limitations outside of the WC. To be fair, what offense is there for a 5'11" QB with a BB gun arm outside of the WCO? His limitations are well-documented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpearSrai Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 To be fair, what offense is there for a 5'11" QB with a BB gun arm outside of the WCO? His limitations are well-documented. Okay, Garcia is not 5'11... And his arm strength is better than Chad Pennington's. So whatever offenses Chad Pennington has run, those kinds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Okay, Garcia is not 5'11... And his arm strength is better than Chad Pennington's. So whatever offenses Chad Pennington has run, those kinds. I would say both of those are subjective. At least Chad doesn't have to hop up two steps and throw his body to chuck a 20-yard pass. As for Jeff's height, I have heard many NFL analysts say how he is closer to under 6-feet and over 6-feet. Heck, his wife, Carmella DeCesare, is 5'8" and he doesn't exactly tower over her. If you really think he is a legitimate 6'1", then go ahead. I think he is closer to 5'11.5". As for Jeff being able to do what Chad does, I think you are underestimating Chad Pennington's intelligence as a factor in his effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpearSrai Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I would say both of those are subjective. At least Chad doesn't have to hop up two steps and throw his body to chuck a 20-yard pass. As for Jeff's height, I have heard many NFL analysts say how he is closer to under 6-feet and over 6-feet. Heck, his wife, Carmella DeCesare, is 5'8" and he doesn't exactly tower over her. If you really think he is a legitimate 6'1", then go ahead. I think he is closer to 5'11.5". As for Jeff being able to do what Chad does, I think you are underestimating Chad Pennington's intelligence as a factor in his effectiveness. If reported heights and weights are unreliable, then we have to also question every QB height and weight that has been reported over the years. Maybe there have been successful 5'11 QB's in the NFL and we just don't know it. That's a difficult argument to get into, if the data is unreliable. So let's just say "who knows". Chad is definitely a smart player, but so is Jeff. All you mentioned was arm strength and size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 If reported heights and weights are unreliable, then we have to also question every QB height and weight that has been reported over the years. Maybe there have been successful 5'11 QB's in the NFL and we just don't know it. That's a difficult argument to get into, if the data is unreliable. So let's just say "who knows". Chad is definitely a smart player, but so is Jeff. All you mentioned was arm strength and size. Yes, all I mentioned was Jeff's size and arm strength, but you were the one that reasoned if Chad and his arm strength could run Chad's offense, so could Jeff, completely disregarding anything. That is why I brought that up. It is a little harder with the older players to get accurate heights. As the combine was gotten more popular, with the expansion of sports on the internet, heights and weights have gotten more accurate and easier to verify. Nevertheless, heights are usually never exaggerated any more than 1 1/2" inches (probably the maximum size of cleats). So if you want to see the amount of 5'11" QBs in this league, look at guys who are listed at 6-6'1", and you will probably have a case of some sort. However, how many of the successful QBs in this league are even listed under 6'2"? Drew Brees (who I have heard many times is a legitimate 6")? A guy who is listed at 6'2" isn't under 6", that is just too big of a difference. A guy at 6", 6'1"... possibly under 6". The point is, Jeff Garcia is a short QB. Anyways, my belief is that Jeff Garcia is not a good fit for anything other than a WCO (OK, maybe a Wing-T :lol: ), and if the Bucs should choose to go in a different direction with their offense (possibly more vertical), I don't think Jeff Garcia will be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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