Lmao

[thesteelhurtin]

The Ravens want to upgrade their ground attack so they are interviewing the steelers running back coach Kirby Wilson. He was the running backs coach for pass happy Arians and just as pass happy Haley.

[thundercleetz]

The Ravens want to upgrade their ground attack so they are interviewing the steelers running back coach Kirby Wilson. He was the running backs coach for pass happy Arians and just as pass happy Haley.

Unless he completely blows our staff away during the interview I doubt he gets it. Ravens are employing an old Al Davis technique where you interview coaches from division rivals to pick their brain.

[thundercleetz]

I am curious though, hurtin, what do you think of Wilson as a coach?

[thesteelhurtin]

It's tough to tell because of the line but he never seemed to fix Mendenhalls problems or Dwyer and red for that matter. If you think about he really hasn't had a lot of successful backs under him but like I said how much is him and how much is other contributions. From what I've heard he is a really good guy

[cravnravn]

Meh, they also interviewed Shannarat too,

[tsylvester]

Meh, they also interviewed Shannarat too,

 

 

He is their top choice, the other three on their list, really stink.... not encouraged by what I am hearing..... this could set the offense back for half a decade...

[cravnravn]

Why would shanahan even want a coordinators position? He has nothing to prove

[RavenMad]

Why would shanahan even want a coordinators position? He has nothing to prove

 

It was Kyle not Mike. He was an OC with the Texans and then Redskins.

[cravnravn]

Ooops my bad my text didn't put an initial, just said shannahan

[Geronimo]

 

 

He is their top choice, the other three on their list, really stink.... not encouraged by what I am hearing..... this could set the offense back for half a decade...

any OC other than Hostler, is going to set us back. And maybe even Hostler if he brings in a whole new offense. Joe hasn't even mastered an offense he's been in for six years, just imagine Joe starting over with a whole new offense. i've said this before but Joe is not that smart, it's going to take him AT LEAST a year to get comfortable with a new offense.

[cravnravn]

Joe went to the afccg his first year, he's smarter then you think

[thundercleetz]

 

 

He is their top choice, the other three on their list, really stink.... not encouraged by what I am hearing..... this could set the offense back for half a decade...

Shanahan is my top choice but if they choose Hostler I don't think it would be as bad as fans are crying. Fans are criticizing Hostler over one year as an OC seven years ago. He had terrible talent and was probably not ready for the role at that point in his coaching career. Players get better over time and so do coaches. I'm sure Hostler has grown as a coach a lot over the past seven years. I know our guys really like and respect him.

 

Not pulling for Hostler myself but it wouldn't be terrible.

[Geronimo]

Joe went to the afccg his first year, he's smarter then you think

2008 playoffs vs MIAMI 9-23 135 yds vs TEN 11-22 161 yds 1 TD vs PITT 13-30 141 yds 3ints. Joe got carried to the AFCCG game.

[tsylvester]

Shanahan is my top choice but if they choose Hostler I don't think it would be as bad as fans are crying. Fans are criticizing Hostler over one year as an OC seven years ago. He had terrible talent and was probably not ready for the role at that point in his coaching career. Players get better over time and so do coaches. I'm sure Hostler has grown as a coach a lot over the past seven years. I know our guys really like and respect him.

 

Not pulling for Hostler myself but it wouldn't be terrible.

 

 

Based on the lack of improvement from the receivers over the course of two seasons, I just cannot get behind Hostler as an OC. Sure, some of that is on the players, but none of them took a step forward this year, the ones from last year even stepped back in their route running. Secondaries knew what routes were being run because the players were not able to hide them in their movements. That is on the coach imo.

 

Of the top four, yes, Shannahan is my choice, even then, I am sceptical. If he choses not to come, Hostler will be the choice and that, is scary.

[thundercleetz]

 

 

Based on the lack of improvement from the receivers over the course of two seasons, I just cannot get behind Hostler as an OC. Sure, some of that is on the players, but none of them took a step forward this year, the ones from last year even stepped back in their route running. Secondaries knew what routes were being run because the players were not able to hide them in their movements. That is on the coach imo.

 

Of the top four, yes, Shannahan is my choice, even then, I am sceptical. If he choses not to come, Hostler will be the choice and that, is scary.

We soon forget what terrible receiver coaching looked like under Billick. How much of the problems you stated is attributable to "receiver coaching" and not game planning? How many times did you see the Ravens run pick plays or any other sort of route progression to get guys open for easy throws? What about having quick checks to slants and screens in order to counter blitzes? How many screen did we even run for that matter?

 

As far as our receivers giving away their routes presnap, I do not have the NFL package with the coach's film, much less do I have cable, so I'll take your word for that. That is something you can put on the receiver coach.

 

Regardless, look at the receiving core. Outside of Torrey Smith, what other receiver played all 16 games? That position was a revolving door. And guys that were in there we were crazy to put much responsibility on in the first place. Jacoby Jones is a return guy, Deonte Thompson was a second year undrafted free agent, Tandon Doss was a fourth round pick who was cut, and he had an aging and injury prone Brandon Stokely. Imagine where'd we be without Marlon Brown, who was an undrafted rookie less than a year off of ACL surgery.

 

You an put the blame on the receiver coach but I don't see that as fair when most of your receiving core doesn't practice during the week and is essentially not qualified for the league. The only guy in that group above outside of Torrey with any potential is Marlon. And Marlon made some serious strides as the season went on.

 

Here's what I do know. Under Billick our receivers would never come back toward the QB whenever the QB would buy time. At least our receivers don't give up on routes now. Joe and the receivers love Hostler. Once again, not my preferred choice but I do not see it as scary.

[tsylvester]

TC, I saw plenty of rubs, plenty of tiered routes to get guys open. What I did not see was good route running. Sure, some of that is onthe players, as we said. However, how can you runa slant route, quick/hot read, when the receivers a) are not running proper routes and b) are not reading the defense properly?

 

That is all on the coach. I think you have hear me say this many times, since the RAvens got here, they have never, as an organization, developed a receiver, Heap was as close as they came and he was a tight end, and even he did not run good routes, it was more his speed at the postion and hands.

 

Good route running involves many things, not just squaring it off properly, or using the head fake. It is running them at the right depth and, especailly, at the right speed.

 

Some routes are designed to piggy back off another route, a clear out of sorts. If the 2n man through runs too quickly, it doesn't work. If the first man runs it too slow, or even at the wrong depth, it will not work.

 

How many times have you seen 3 receivers within five yards of each other?

 

Answer, too many and that is not the play design, that is the receiver running the wrong route.

 

This all goes on the coach or coaches. So we can blame Caldwell, Hostler or the candy man. No matter what, it comes down to play design and route running to get open.

 

Ever watch Smith try a double move? He gives it away. See him run a straight nine? He stays too close to the boundary not giving Flacco room for error. Smith still struggles fidning the ball in the air and adjusting on deep throws; he flails trying to catch it. He has one of the smallest catch radiouses in the league.

 

Brown is great, I love the kid, so much mor epotential than anyone on the team. His catches got better, yes, especially in the red zone. However, the only part of his route runing that got better was his confidence in running the play. He still ran too shallow or too deep on crossing routes. He still did not run the right way, pending the position of the safety on deep routes, Smith does that too.

 

So many people blame a quarterback for an incomplete pass, or the coach for a lack of imagination in route combinations, yet they overlook the fact that as small as five yards can make a pass look 20 yards off target.

 

Listen to the talking head cry about Brady and his poor receiving core, how he should be MVP because he took them so far with so little. Let me tell you, Flacco had less to work with, Brady's receivers are better route runners, got proper coaching, got benched if they kept on running improper routes. You don't see that here. Maybe it was because of all the injuries at the postion, who knows. Far beit for our local media to cover such an issue. Preston, Wilson, the rest of them just talk about team issues, popular team issues, not positional. Sure they might tell you there is a need, but not why.

 

They will tell you Flacco completed his career worse, but not why. By the way, Brady completed his career worse, and I just told you why; his receivers.

 

Some of the issues are just because the receivers are so young, yes. Smith has talent as we have seen, but he is not, at this point, a number one. Brown has talent, a great slot receiver, dependable over the middle so long as it is zone and Joe has time to wait on him. With proper coaching nd work, Brown will be a top guy in the league shortly.

 

I know they are high on a guy on the ps/injury list, I forget his name; speed, quickness and supposedly good hands.

 

Evenso, Hostler has proven nothing, a qb coach for Alex Smith, who was a dud until Hostler was gone, hmmm No receivers developed under him on any of the 49ers, Jets, Cheifs, Saints..... None.. Every player not on the Ravens did not like his coaching style, not just SanFran, which I am sure he learned how NOT to call plays there.....

 

Joe liked Cam too, for a while, until the offense sputtered, food for thought.

[thundercleetz]

TC, I saw plenty of rubs, plenty of tiered routes to get guys open. What I did not see was good route running. Sure, some of that is onthe players, as we said. However, how can you runa slant route, quick/hot read, when the receivers a) are not running proper routes and b) are not reading the defense properly?

 

That is all on the coach. I think you have hear me say this many times, since the RAvens got here, they have never, as an organization, developed a receiver, Heap was as close as they came and he was a tight end, and even he did not run good routes, it was more his speed at the postion and hands.

 

Good route running involves many things, not just squaring it off properly, or using the head fake. It is running them at the right depth and, especailly, at the right speed.

 

Some routes are designed to piggy back off another route, a clear out of sorts. If the 2n man through runs too quickly, it doesn't work. If the first man runs it too slow, or even at the wrong depth, it will not work.

 

How many times have you seen 3 receivers within five yards of each other?

 

Answer, too many and that is not the play design, that is the receiver running the wrong route.

 

This all goes on the coach or coaches. So we can blame Caldwell, Hostler or the candy man. No matter what, it comes down to play design and route running to get open.

 

Ever watch Smith try a double move? He gives it away. See him run a straight nine? He stays too close to the boundary not giving Flacco room for error. Smith still struggles fidning the ball in the air and adjusting on deep throws; he flails trying to catch it. He has one of the smallest catch radiouses in the league.

 

Brown is great, I love the kid, so much mor epotential than anyone on the team. His catches got better, yes, especially in the red zone. However, the only part of his route runing that got better was his confidence in running the play. He still ran too shallow or too deep on crossing routes. He still did not run the right way, pending the position of the safety on deep routes, Smith does that too.

 

So many people blame a quarterback for an incomplete pass, or the coach for a lack of imagination in route combinations, yet they overlook the fact that as small as five yards can make a pass look 20 yards off target.

 

Listen to the talking head cry about Brady and his poor receiving core, how he should be MVP because he took them so far with so little. Let me tell you, Flacco had less to work with, Brady's receivers are better route runners, got proper coaching, got benched if they kept on running improper routes. You don't see that here. Maybe it was because of all the injuries at the postion, who knows. Far beit for our local media to cover such an issue. Preston, Wilson, the rest of them just talk about team issues, popular team issues, not positional. Sure they might tell you there is a need, but not why.

 

They will tell you Flacco completed his career worse, but not why. By the way, Brady completed his career worse, and I just told you why; his receivers.

 

Some of the issues are just because the receivers are so young, yes. Smith has talent as we have seen, but he is not, at this point, a number one. Brown has talent, a great slot receiver, dependable over the middle so long as it is zone and Joe has time to wait on him. With proper coaching nd work, Brown will be a top guy in the league shortly.

 

I know they are high on a guy on the ps/injury list, I forget his name; speed, quickness and supposedly good hands.

 

Evenso, Hostler has proven nothing, a qb coach for Alex Smith, who was a dud until Hostler was gone, hmmm No receivers developed under him on any of the 49ers, Jets, Cheifs, Saints..... None.. Every player not on the Ravens did not like his coaching style, not just SanFran, which I am sure he learned how NOT to call plays there.....

 

Joe liked Cam too, for a while, until the offense sputtered, food for thought.

Good post. Once again I don't have the NFL package and I'm not skilled enough to see any of these things on one TV watch-through, so I'll take your word on it. I'll admit you've convinced me I'm a lot more bearish on Hostler now.

 

I still maintain it's hard to coach guys when you have fringe talent that is not practicing during the week because of injuries, but good point with the Pats receivers. I think part of our problem is we never have able body receivers. At least the Pats have guys in there that can practice.

 

How much of what you said would you put on Flacco for not working with his receivers to get down the timing? We always hear about other QBs hounding their receivers for timing and route precision.

[tsylvester]

 

How much of what you said would you put on Flacco for not working with his receivers to get down the timing? We always hear about other QBs hounding their receivers for timing and route precision.

 

 

 

At the risk of repeating my self, I would put a lot of it on their lack of actual practice time together. With the new practice rules coming in, this year, and after a Super Bowl run/win, that takes a lot of time away from timing with receivers. If you look around the league, the tandems who did very well this year, Brees and his crew, Manning, etc, they spent a lot of time in the off season working together, and worked late after practices, spent time together watching film.

 

Now, I can't say for certain Joe and his crew did NOT do any of this, but we rarely saw and reorts of it here, (could just be poor reporting by our local media) but when you think of all the off the field things they all had to deal with, sponsors, family life especially, babies, marriages, we can see, time would be limited.

 

Add to that two of the main receivers to start the season were rookies, not allowed to work before camps, and one can see, timing, familiarity, was a big issue.

 

My biggest gripe with the coaching was the inability of the receivers to get seperation against press coverage, whether that was match up zone or straight man. You don't have to be very talented to accomplish this, it is a matter of proper technique and strength in the upper body. Since they, the receivers, were never able to beat press coverage this year, this tells me the coaching is to blame; improper technique, not the best conditioning for strength.

 

I do think they will be better next year. Smith with another year (wait till he has to be paid!), Brown made very good strides this year and now they know how to handle their time, what it will really take,

 

See, it used to be teams could work on full timing during practice, work on getting off press, in practice. With the new rules, not so any more, so coaching is really needed now. I think they will get together before the mini camps start, work harder during camps etc because now they know.

 

Yes, some of that timing is because of the offensive, offensive line, allowing Flacco time, the receivers time to work open. Add to that, if you are not familiar with a receiver, it is very difficult to trust them to run say a dig route, timing, to the right depth and to turn the proper way, inside or outside. That route, for best results, has to be thrown before the receiver makes the break. Joe has been throwing it afterward, thus no room for rac, and for contested catches, another issue with the receivers, not winning battles.

 

With a better familiarity between them, a better line, and, receivers with more experience, I expect the timing routes to be better, which in turn, opens up other route combinations, true double moves.

[cravnravn]

2008 playoffs vs MIAMI 9-23 135 yds vs TEN 11-22 161 yds 1 TD vs PITT 13-30 141 yds 3ints. Joe got carried to the AFCCG game.

 

Nice, now you're finding faults with his wins!!!

[Money]

Joe went to the afccg his first year, he's smarter then you think

 

GerRastamo is not completely off on this. Joe does have a below average Wonderlic score (for a starting QB). Of course so does Peyton, Brees and Ben, so take that for what it's worth.

[Geronimo]

Nice, now you're finding faults with his wins!!!

I'm not finding faults with THE RAVENS WINS, but you brought up the Ravens going to the AFCCG in Joe's first year as some kind of proof that Joe is a smart QB. All i was trying to do is point out that us getting to the AFCCG didn't have as much to do with Joe as it was a TEAM accomplishment and that it doesn't prove Joe is smart.

[thundercleetz]

Shanahan and Kirby get second interviews according to twitter. Hopefully a decision is made soon. Suspense is killing me.

[cravnravn]

I'm not finding faults with THE RAVENS WINS, but you brought up the Ravens going to the AFCCG in Joe's first year as some kind of proof that Joe is a smart QB. All i was trying to do is point out that us getting to the AFCCG didn't have as much to do with Joe as it was a TEAM accomplishment and that it doesn't prove Joe is smart.

Him qbing a team with no real camp experience, and leading the team into the playoffs is a testament to how smart he is,.

[oldno82]

Shanahan and Kirby get second interviews according to twitter. Hopefully a decision is made soon. Suspense is killing me.

The more I think about this, the more I think:

1) It should be Shanahan.

 

2) It will be Hostetler, who's at the bottom of my list.

[thundercleetz]

The more I think about this, the more I think:

1) It should be Shanahan.

 

2) It will be Hostetler, who's at the bottom of my list.

I'm really hoping for Shanahan. Tim convinced me, while I don't it's fair to blame Hostler for the offense's faults this season, hiring him would be more of the same old. We need a fresh start with someone from the outside coming in with an unbiased perspective and is able to identify the problems that have been plaguing our offense over the years.

 

I really don't see how It makes sense for Hostler to get the job. If Shanahan gets it Hostler can still stay on the staff as a QB or WR coach. Shanahan is a very smart football mind, choose Hostler and we lose out on that.

 

I have a lot of Skins fans as friends, and while a lot of them blame Shanahan for locker-room unrest this last season, the general consensus is that he is a smart coach.