15 Years Ago Today

[TBird]

WoW craven - that's cool having Jackman as a neighbor. I met his daughter

who was gorgeous. both were really cool.

 

The Os would have moved to DC a long time ago w/o Camden yards but

we can thank Irsay for that. The legislators finally woke up and created the

stadium authority to run it.

 

Larry Luchino was brought over from EBWs law firm to run things. he helped

create the design telling the architechs they wanted a Fenway park type

stadium where the seats were close and the field would be small.

 

EBW put the city on trial because there weren't enought fans. there was a

4 game weekend series vs somebody and over 100,000 fans came out and EBW said they city passed. Theyre staying. then he died in 88

and the estate sold the team to Eli Jacobs and Luchinno started mumblings

bout a new stadium. After losing the Colts they quickly built the yard which is

still being called the greatest venue in the world for watching

sports but O's would have definitely moved w/o no stadium.

 

Roland Hemond was GM and he made the worse trade in Orioles trading

Harnisch and Schilling, for Glen Davis a power

hitter who did nothing here but get injured while the two minor league

pitchers became the best in baseball. Schilling became a 20 game winner

and HOF, I think.

 

Jacobs sold to Angelos, or the team went into court after Jacobs lost all his

money and Petey out-bided everyone and we were sooooooo excited

to have him as owner. He paid the lsargest sum ever for a professional team at the time of $275M, but old Jerry said he paid the

most of any individual for Cowboys. Petey had an investors group

that included tom clancy who died a couple of years ago but he

still has an offince in the warehouse with his name on it.

 

Petey won't let anyone forget him.

 

Petey is a nice guy for those that know him. I met him at the firm

as he represented dad in the asbestos case vs Beth steel. He

got a nice settlement for him which helped him and mom thru

retirement after Beth Steel lost everything and was sold and all

the employees lost pensions. Mom still gets $77 pr mo from them

after dad working there for 50 yrs.

[cravnravn]

Funny thought, OPCY is 23 years old, yet we don't hear "it's outdated" "we need a new one"

 

Miss the old memorial stadium, home of the greatest outdoor insane asylum

[thundercleetz]

It's impossible to know for sure but I think everything ended up as good as possible for Baltimore. The Colts moving made the city realize it couldn't drag it's feet in regards to stadiums and improvements. This led to Camden Yards.

 

Baltimore got another team that won a SB before the old team every did. If the city could have gotten the name and colors before they ever played in Indy, I'd be fine with it. As soon as the were worn in Indy it felt tainted.

I completely agree, Spen. We ended up with a gem of a ballpark in Camden Yards and a fantastic owner for the Ravens. All I am saying is it would be cool if the Baltimore Colts history was part of the Ravens franchise. Indy can have the colors and name and records thereafter.

[cravnravn]

Those fuckers in Indy ain't stealing my history

[Spen]

Funny thought, OPCY is 23 years old, yet we don't hear "it's outdated" "we need a new one"

Miss the old memorial stadium, home of the greatest outdoor insane asylum

The stadiums built in the last 20-30 years are, with few exceptions, so much better than the ones built in the decades before. Usually single purpose, better sightlines, better amenities, and enough bathrooms so a woman can go* and be back in less than an hour.

 

As long as they are kept up, I can see them lasting 40-50 years or more. Then again I'm not an already rich owner wanting a bright shiny new venue to increase the value of my team.

 

 

 

*urinate

[oldno82]

The stadiums built in the last 20-30 years are, with few exceptions, so much better than the ones built in the decades before. Usually single purpose, better sightlines, better amenities, and enough bathrooms so a woman can go* and be back in less than an hour.As long as they are kept up, I can see them lasting 40-50 years or more. Then again I'm not an already rich owner wanting a bright shiny new venue to increase the value of my team.

 

 

 

*urinate

 

I don't think any owner wants a 50 year old stadium. Like you said, they want something to increase the already obscene amount of money they make.

[cravnravn]

I don't think any owner wants a 50 year old stadium. Like you said, they want something to increase the already obscene amount of money they make.

Crazy eh? And yet silver bullet Bob was bitching about a stadium that was just 30 years old, do we here the owners of the red Sox or the cubs complaining? How about the Bears? That stadium is ancient

[oldno82]

Crazy eh? And yet silver bullet Bob was bitching about a stadium that was just 30 years old, do we here the owners of the red Sox or the cubs complaining? How about the Bears? That stadium is ancient

Some owners may be loyal. But I think even those stadiums you mentioned have been massively renovated.

 

The Ravens lease expires in 5 years. Any thoughts on what Bisciotti will do, if anything?

[Spen]

Some owners may be loyal. But I think even those stadiums you mentioned have been massively renovated.

 

The Ravens lease expires in 5 years. Any thoughts on what Bisciotti will do, if anything?

I can't find the quote but last year he said that the stadium needed some renovations including escalators and if he met with much opposition he would sell the team instead of having to look at other options such as relocation. The pessimist in me thought it sounded like 'give me what I want or I'll sell and who knows what will happen then'.

[thundercleetz]

Some owners may be loyal. But I think even those stadiums you mentioned have been massively renovated.

 

The Ravens lease expires in 5 years. Any thoughts on what Bisciotti will do, if anything?

As Spen mentioned, as long as the stadium has the footprint for luxury boxes, which most stadiums built beyond the mid-90s do, renovations are preferred over a new stadium. A lot of the old stadiums were bowl shaped and couldn't support luxury boxes unless you pretty much bulldozed the lower bowl (some colleges have done this with their stadiums given limited real estate).

 

Further, real estate is just as important. M&T and Camden Yards are in prime downtown locations. Memorial was in a midtown neighborhood location. The Ravens or the O's couldn't find a better spot in the Baltimore area to put stadiums.

 

Bisciotti already said he wants M&T to have major renovations to keep it among the best stadiums in the league. He and Dick Cass have floated the idea of a roof. Bisciotti has also said he would sell the team before getting to the point where he would have to threaten to move the team to get rennovations. In other words, this may be another owner's problem.

 

We are a little ways away from that. The country is trending away from public subsidies of stadiums. And who knows where the NFL will be with concussions and TV deal revenues given cord cutting.

[oldno82]

I can't find the quote but last year he said that the stadium needed some renovations including escalators and if he met with much opposition he would sell the team instead of having to look at other options such as relocation. The pessimist in me thought it sounded like 'give me what I want or I'll sell and who knows what will happen then'.

It sounded that way to me too.

[TBird]

Some owners may be loyal. But I think even those stadiums you mentioned have been massively renovated.

 

The Ravens lease expires in 5 years. Any thoughts on what Bisciotti will do, if anything?

The state just paid millions for upgrades to the stadiums for a larger score board in HD and for the sound system and for concessions and

bathrooms. Bisciotti had more bathrooms installed as soon as he became owner because he knew the situation from being a season ticket

holder. He also got more TVs posted around the bathrooms so guys wouldn't miss the game while standing in line. I never had a prob

because I always sat in the club leve next to the bathroom. I always took my nephew who said the real fans sit out in the cold Uncle T but

he didn't mind it during the PO game we won vs Denver which was freezing cold during the SB35 run. Goose knew we would win as soon

as he stepped out the door. The Ravens were built as a cold weather team. Denver was not and they're in the Rockies.

 

Back to the stadium, an owner will give cities 25 years but they better do something but see renovations above. I don't think that is enough

but Biscut isn't going anywhere. I never heard that about his selling if he doesn't get what he wants. That's not his MO. I posted a link

that he serious thought about selling because of all the bad Ray Rice comments around the country. He likes flying below the

radio where no one knows him.

 

 

I loved Memorial Stadium. Lived right behind it and played in the parking lot and waited for players to enter the locker rooms. Sometimes

players would give us a quarter to get them a paper and cigs which kids could buy back then. It Great for watching baseball on a warm summer night. It was outdated before they built it with all those poles in

it and it went high and further out and thus the Luchinno comments for a smaller stadium with all seats close to the field.

 

Ravens seats are much closer to the field and go straight up instead of up and out. Every seat is close to the field.

 

I heard Ravens were going to dig up the field and put grass in because of all the injuries. Did anyone else hear that?

[oldno82]

As Spen mentioned, as long as the stadium has the footprint for luxury boxes, which most stadiums built beyond the mid-90s do, renovations are preferred over a new stadium. A lot of the old stadiums were bowl shaped and couldn't support luxury boxes unless you pretty much bulldozed the lower bowl (some colleges have done this with their stadiums given limited real estate).

 

Further, real estate is just as important. M&T and Camden Yards are in prime downtown locations. Memorial was in a midtown neighborhood location. The Ravens or the O's couldn't find a better spot in the Baltimore area to put stadiums.

 

Bisciotti already said he wants M&T to have major renovations to keep it among the best stadiums in the league. He and Dick Cass have floated the idea of a roof. Bisciotti has also said he would sell the team before getting to the point where he would have to threaten to move the team to get rennovations. In other words, this may be another owner's problem.

 

We are a little ways away from that. The country is trending away from public subsidies of stadiums. And who knows where the NFL will be with concussions and TV deal revenues given cord cutting.

 

Actually, while I'd like to see a dome, I have the feeling that the cost would be a non-starter with the Stadium Authority unless there was a major contribution from Bisciotti or the NFL. And that's the way it should be.

[thundercleetz]

TBird, the state didn't pay for those upgrades you mentioned, the team paid for them.

[oldno82]

The state just paid millions for upgrades to the stadiums for a larger scor board in HD and for the sound system and for concessions and

bathrooms. Bisciotti had more bathroom install as soon as he became owner because he knew the situation from being a season ticket

holder. He also got more TVs posted around the bathrooms so guys wouldn't miss the game while standing in line. I never had a prob

because I always sat in the club leve next to the bathroom. I always took my nephew and said the real fans sit out in the cold Uncle T but

he didn't mind it during the PO game we won vs Denver which was freezing cold on the road to SB35. Goose knew we would win as soon

as he stepped out the door. The Ravens were built as a cold weather team. Denver was not and they're in the Rockies.

 

Back to the stadium, an owner will give cities 25 years but they better do something but see renovations above. I don't think that is enough

but Biscut isn't going anywhere. I never heard that about his selling if he doesn't get what he wants. That's not his MO.

 

I loved Memorial Stadium. Great for watching baseball on a warm summer night. It was outdated before they built it with all those poles in

it and it went high and further out and thus the Luchinno comments for a smaller stadium with all seats close to the field.

 

Ravens seats are much closer to the field and go straight up instead of up and out. Every seat is close to the field.

 

I heard Ravens were going to dig up the field and put grass in because of all the injuries. Did anyone else hear that?

Yeah I heard that too. I think it's pretty definite.

[Spen]

I haven't peed in a trough squeezed against other guys since Memorial Stadium closed.

[TBird]

TBird, the state didn't pay for those upgrades you mentioned, the team paid for them.

Thanks.

 

I obviously didn't know that. Then it's definitely time for the state to make more upgrades or Biscut might get upset

after paying for the last ones. All buildings need maintenance. I do know that they painted the seats in Oriole Park

and made renovations there. I don't think Petey would have paid for anything like that but it's in good shape.

 

You buy a house and you gotta maintain it, put a new roof on and in our case a new basement when there were cracks

in the walls. Cost $15,000.

 

If the state keeps up the upgrades, they won't have to build a new one any time soon.

 

Art could have had a dome. It was an option in the original package. I wanted one because we would have obtained an NBA

and possible NHL team. The NHL tried to come here in 66 but the Civil Center was too small. It housed the old Clippers

and then the Skip Jacks of hockey. Anyone remember those teams.

 

Then there was the Bullets of the NBA that also left. Nobody shed any tears except my family. We went to a lot of games when

Gus Johnson, Wes Unseld Earl The Pearl Monroe, Kevin Loughery, Phil Chanier were there and Bunny Wilson from the U of Baltimore.

My cousin played for Maryland and he and his brother and two friends actually went out of the team when they trained at Ft Mead.

Bruce was tall and good and was the last player cut.

 

Every year they played the Knicks in the playoffs and like with the Os vs Yankees in the 90s they always lost. There wasn't much

support so a guy named Pollard from DC bought and moved them there after the new arena was built on the DC Beltway and

now play in the magnificient MCI Center while we still have the old Civic Center called something else now. I haven't been down

there since the 90s.

 

 

But we might have gotten new teams with a domed stadium next to the convention center to bring in more conferences and shows

plus the NCAAs including the regionals and Final 4.

 

Art said football was meant to play outside so we didn't get a dome but it's brought up every so often.

[TBird]

I haven't peed in a trough squeezed against other guys since Memorial Stadium closed.

Yea, I remember those too but you should have seen the ones at Harvard Stadium built around 1901 and is still there. That stadium actually

saw 17 players killed in games there in 1905 and Congress almost outlawed football-lol. It took the President Teddy Roosevelt to keep that from happening. He was a great football fan but never played in his rich neighborhood but his son played at Harvard but broke his leg there in a game. His son became a General and died on Normandy Beach in June 1944.

 

Anyway, back to troughs, there's one still there that is metal and looks like a huge bath tub on legs and is long. So there's abouit 10 guys

on each side pissing in at the same time. It was a riot and everyone was laughing. There were all kinds of cocks pissing in that thing, white

ones, black ones, big ones and small ones, even a guy with no cock. It must have been blown off in the war.

 

Their toilet stalls had no doors or locks on them so guys that were embarrassed to piss in a public trough couldn't hide his dick in a stall.

 

True.

 

Back to Memorial Stadium, they actually put elevators in going all the way up to the top in 1966 but they crashed and a bunch of kids got

hurt. Man, there was blood all over the place. One 12 yr old girl died. You can google it. I was with my brother and I said we're walking. I was 15 in the 10th grade at the time. That's for pussies so we walked up.

By the time we got to the top we heard all this yelling and screaming and it was a bloody mess. The cops came in plus the TV

crews of course, so I called home to tell our parents that we were safe. They didn't even know it but turned it on and it was all over

the TV, even national TV. Dad said why didn't you go on it and I said it was for pussies. He said that's my boy.

 

The irony was it happened on Nation Safety Week and all the kids wearing safety belts got in free.

 

So much for safety. It was a major national embarrassment for city officials.

 

Then there was the day the plane crashed into the stadium. He was actually trying to land the plane on the field and was a flight

instructor. It was after the Squeelers-Colts playoff game in 76, I think. It crashed in the upper deck. Fortunately, it was about

20-30 mins after the game and no one was up there but people were still in the stadium while walking out.

 

The pilot ended up in a mental institution. LOL

[TBird]

Sandusky of TV 11 had a show during the season and discussed was it a good thing that the Colts left that brought the Ravens here. He

said I have a stake in this because my father was a coach for the Colts and Irsay fired him but Im glad the Colts left because we got the

Ravens and won two SBs. We have more trophies than Indy has after being out of the game that long so all is well that ends well.

 

Well, not quite. Sandusky didn't grow up here. He wasn't here when the Colts left. He didnt feel our pain when they left and especially

the pain of the 12 years we didn't have football. Having Irsay here was better than having nobody.

 

So yea, things worked out better in the long run but nobody forgets having your heart cut out of your city and all the pain it

caused.I never liked Sandusky anyway. Prefer Scott Garceau and Tom Matte. When you turn the radio on you have to wait a

while to hear the score but you can tell of the Ravens are losing or winning just by the sound of Sandusky's voice.

[cravnravn]

Putting in escalators should be no problem at all the Dolphins have done it, honestly its a nice ride from the ground to section 300, they installed 4 of them at each corner of the stadium. Installing the escalators was just one step in Miami securing a super bowl. After the Indy/Bears SB the NFL informed Miami that there would be no more super bowls at sun life stadium unless significant upgrades were made. The fans we talked with in December don't like it because their season tickets jumped on average of 200 per seat.

[cravnravn]

Yea, I remember those too but you should have seen the ones at Harvard Stadium built around 1901 and is still there. That stadium actually

saw 17 players killed in games there in 1905 and Congress almost outlawed football-lol. It took the President Teddy Roosevelt to keep that from happening. He was a great football fan but never played in his rich neighborhood but his son played at Harvard but broke his leg there in a game. His son became a General and died on Normandy Beach in June 1944.

 

Anyway, back to troughs, there's one still there that is metal and looks like a huge bath tub on legs and is long. So there's abouit 10 guys

on each side pissing in at the same time. It was a riot and everyone was laughing. There were all kinds of cocks pissing in that thing, white

ones, black ones, big ones and small ones, even a guy with no cock. It must have been blown off in the war.

 

Their toilet stalls had no doors or locks on them so guys that were embarrassed to piss in a public trough couldn't hide his dick in a stall.

 

True.

 

Back to Memorial Stadium, they actually put elevators in going all the way up to the top in 1966 but they crashed and a bunch of kids got

hurt. Man, there was blood all over the place. One 12 yr old girl died. You can google it. I was with my brother and I said we're walking. I was 15 in the 10th grade at the time. That's for pussies so we walked up.

By the time we got to the top we heard all this yelling and screaming and it was a bloody mess. The cops came in plus the TV

crews of course, so I called home to tell our parents that we were safe. They didn't even know it but turned it on and it was all over

the TV, even national TV. Dad said why didn't you go on it and I said it was for pussies. He said that's my boy.

 

The irony was it happened on Nation Safety Week and all the kids wearing safety belts got in free.

 

So much for safety. It was a major national embarrassment for city officials.

 

Then there was the day the plane crashed into the stadium. He was actually trying to land the plane on the field and was a flight

instructor. It was after the Squeelers-Colts playoff game in 76, I think. It crashed in the upper deck. Fortunately, it was about

20-30 mins after the game and no one was up there but people were still in the stadium while walking out.

 

The pilot ended up in a mental institution. LOL

I do remember my grandmother speaking of the death of the little girl and the escalator collapse. My grandmother was a huge O's fan, she had the Sunday season ticket plan,

 

Donald Kronan was the knucklehead that flew into the stadium. It's the only game my dad and uncle wanted to leave early,thank god the Stealers did blow us out or there would have been many injuries.think about it, after big wins what did fans usually do? Storm the field.

Folks wouldn't have left early.

[TBird]

That's right. Fans would have been tearing down the goal posts like

in 1960. We were at the bottom of the concourse and the entire

building shook like an earth quake. I said, damn, we're having an

earthquake.

 

He was trying to land on the field and almost made it-lol.

[thundercleetz]

Ironic timing with this topic. This article states Irsay was close to moving the Colts to LA back in 2002.

 

http://www.wthr.com/story/31097612/kravitz-how-close-did-the-colts-come-to-relocating-in-la-closer-than-you-think

[vmax]

That's right. Fans would have been tearing down the goal posts like

in 1960. We were at the bottom of the concourse and the entire

building shook like an earth quake. I said, damn, we're having an

earthquake.

 

He was trying to land on the field and almost made it-lol.

 

I was there for that game and as we were leaving the stadium...right out front....a guy I was with was listening to the radio and he rapidly turned his head and looked up and back at the stadium...then all our heads turned and looked up.

They were right about the stadium emptying out early or a ton of fans would have been killed.

I've seen enough insane stuff to last a lifetime in that stadium.

[thundercleetz]

TBird, yes you are correct, the MSA paid the Camden Yards rennovations. So I guess the O's have a different agreement worked out than the Ravens do in regard to upkeep. However, the O's lease is up within a few years of the Ravens. John Angelos mentioned he has ideas of giving Camden Yards an open concourse, and possible party deck areas.

 

In regards to the NHL. I read Baltimore and Phildelphia were finalists for the Flyers expansion team. Philadelphia was chosen because the Civic Center's structure with the fixed stage did not lend well of hockey seating. Philadelphia promised to build a new arena (which lasted less than 30 years). Would have been cool since the Flyers and Orioles have the same colors.

 

As far as the dome... We are lucky we didn't get one. The domes built in the 80s-90s are already outdated. The Colts, Rams and Oilers wanted a new stadium after less than twenty years or so in their domes. The original plan was for a BaltoDome, which the Colts and Orioles would have shared. Would have been terrible and horribly outdated. The Minnesota Twins, Houston Astros and Seattle Mariniers have already moved out of their domes. No one likes playing in Toronto for baseball. Each of those domes were built around the same time as the proposed BaltoDome.