The Brutal Truth

[vmax]

It's a sad Monday morning for Ravens fans.

 

One thing about the game of football: It's brutally honest.

It will expose a team for what it is, good, bad or not even competitive.

 

I've seen enough to realize this 2016 Ravens squad is not even competitive.

Not in scheme, identity, talent, playmakers, athleticism, passion ....they can't get it done.

They can"t hang in and find ways to win.

No Mojo. Not a molecule.

 

This team has a long way to go and I can't even begin to figure out what parts to keep to rebuild around.

[tsylvester]

OutsideRzace touched on it in another post and he is correct. This terrible, undisciplined play goes to coaching. We are finally seeing the entire fruits of their labor: they can't coach nor teach.

 

 

It is either that or the players they selected do not have the ability to learn.

 

Pick your poison, either way, major changes have to be made on the coaching staff and in the front office when this season ends.

[Robjr83]

The team needs a complete dismantle and overhaul. Jettison all the old guys like Webb,Suggs,PItta, and Doom. The team is going to be stuck with Joe for the next few seasons like it or not so they really need to focus on the Oline. Zuttah is average at best...Joes literally tripping on him since he was getting pushed back so fast. Joe hasn't been the same since Birk retired. On the defensive side it'll take 2-3 drafts to get some depth in the backfield.

 

 

 

None of this matters if Ozzie keeps whiffing on draft picks. Do you guys know how many probowlers Oz has drafted in the last 6 years? 2!!!! Mosley and Tyrod (with the Bills)

[varaven45]

Max, Agreed 100 %. Amazingly or ironically, while mentioning or sensing the team's demise (in the past coupe of years), most posters never acknowledged and/or scoffed at the notion the team was heading south.

Regardless, it'll be very interesting to see how this organization - from top to bottom - responds and turns this ship around.

[tsylvester]

All these 8 point or less loses fooled the fans, the coaches and the front office into thinking this team was close, the players were good enough.

[varaven45]

Yep; the 5-6 years of blown drafts are on full display. Meanwhile, our rivals are stockpiling talent - at the skilled positions.

 

The question is what, who and when are we going to do something about it.

[ravinmaniac52]

Let all meet at the Key Bridge cause the Bay Bridge is to far for me.

 

I don't think this team is that bad, slow your roll. I think Max said it before, parity. Some or most of these teams are so close to each, some shine in area from other teams. Some teams just cheat at least one team. Look at the Jets good front 7 on that side of the ball, DBs at this time are over-rated. Guy gets hurt there isn't another good guy to plug in there each team is like that not like it was before.

 

You can have a team full of stars but if the coaching is poor or to poor sometimes the stars won't shine. Like our coaching. John has seem to change over a few short years like a bug up his ass, my way or no way, and it just doesn't work like that. Seems all the talk about team he is thinking HIS team. He doesn't know his own team. They can't score touchdowns in the red zone, look at your stat sheet John but no he is going for it on 4th down, fake field goal, put the 3 on the board John, that is the way your team wins game.

 

I don't want to hear "If they make he is a genius", no he isn't. If this team would have gotten any of them at that point lucky dumb for trying it

 

How many times has he went for and cost them the game? What about the flag? Do you give the other team a chance to make a first down? No, you get them to the sideline and make them punt the ball.

 

Just saying

[varaven45]

You are right; there's parity but we're bad right now. And you cannot deny we've got little to show - talent wise - except the DL and maybe Tucker. That's it.

Harbs got rid of the guys who "played like a raven" and replaced them with a bunch of high character, soft guys. This is an organizational, cultural problem that was created since at least Ray and Reeds departure (maybe longer).

Luckily, given the parity and watered down league, it doesn't take much to sneak into the playoffs.

 

Still, it will take some time to rebuild this team and make it playoff worthy. There's a big ship to turn around and its going to take some key changes and time.

 

Not jumping ship or bridge here.... just opining on the team's current and future outlook.

[oldno82]

All good posts. Only 2 pro-bowlers in 6 years! Gee that's really awful and shows what the talent level and coaching are.

 

Harbs should go...there are no more guys who 'play like a Raven' anymore. Plus his spiel (like that of all coaches over time) has gotten old.

 

There is no passion on the team. No young playmakers.

 

Joe looks lost out there and is playing like it.

 

Harbs has lost the confidence of the players.

 

yadda-yadda-yadda.

[ravinmaniac52]

Never been much of judging a team or players on pro bowls.

 

Just wanted to be a pain.

 

The Vikings have lost who and are playing how?

 

 

And you cannot deny we've got little to show - talent wise - except the DL and maybe Tucker. That's it.

Are you sure we got little to show? Maybe record wise, stat sheet. I think with the right coaches this team is on the winning side of .500

 

Kyle Juszczyk to me maybe the most under used player in the NFL. As someone pointed out the TEs on this team are not used the right ways. Not a big Flacco fan but Joe's best throws are from the hash marks out 20-30 yards deep. Do not think anyone has taught him the back shoulder throw, not saying he hasn't put it out there. Someone pointed out that Joe's best season stat wise came under a OC that knew how to run the ball.

[oldno82]

I'm at a loss as to what they should do. A complete overhaul of the coaching and FO would probably reduce us to the status of an expansion team. Maybe we have to get to that level for real changes to occur but that's a really risky move for Bisciotti to make. He'd have to do a lot of hires but that is his strong suit. . Harbs was a good hire and he's had a good run but I think a change needs to be made at least with the coaching. If the FO office goes too we're looking at a 5 year plan to get back to being a team that has Super Bowl aspirations.

 

And what happened to the great draft we were supposed to have gotten this year and last year?

 

If I'm Bisciotti, I'd be picking other successful franchises brains for the rest of the season for a new HC at least.

[vmax]

Lot's of great points being made.

I need time to sift through this.

 

Time to inventory the team's body of work since the Super Bowl.

This is a team going downhill each year.

Joe is going downhill each year.

 

By the 4th quarter there was more passion in the Yets D. They looked like Ravens.

Ravens looked like the Browns.

[varaven45]

Max, indeed it's a lot to process. From the last SB win, we have done a 180 and the bottom's dropped out before our eyes. And it's across the board - FO, coaches, players, etc. Even as a fan, the bottom has dropped out, too. It stinks to root for an irrelevant team - it feels like a browns fan !

 

The sooner we clean up the FO, find a leading HC and future franchise QB, the better off we'll be.

 

Until then, may we all persevere through "the Sunday grind" and hopeful return to relevance.

[vmax]

Most teams have their "Glory Years."

And then get lost in the mire of mediocrity for long periods of time.

 

As a fan, if they must get lost in this quicksand, then at least field a competitive team.

Give me something worth watching.

[Robjr83]

If it were me I'd focus next season on the Oline. We're stuck with a $20mil plus QB at least protect him. Get rid of these small "zone blocking'' guys and get some graters. This team is a AFCN team why aren't we running out of the I-formation ? I hate these soft shotgun handoffs that go nowhere.

[varaven45]

If it were me I'd focus next season on the Oline. We're stuck with a $20mil plus QB at least protect him. Get rid of these small "zone blocking'' guys and get some graters. This team is a AFCN team why aren't we running out of the I-formation ? I hate these soft shotgun handoffs that go nowhere.

 

Yes !!!!!!! This !!!!!! Why captain obvious hasn't figured out is beyond all comprehension. Fix the OLine; that's a start to rebuilding the offense w or w/o Joe. Establish running game and pick up pieces - game changers in the next couple of years. Gotta start somewhere.

[52isUnstoppable]

This offense totally dropped off when Smith Sr got hurt. He was the only receiver that can actually get open in the slot. Wallace and Perriman are true outside guys and never open. Scheme or not, they get zero separation. Aiken is OK in the slot and honestly I'm a little surprised he has regressed so much this season. Without Smith Sr we have completely neglected the middle of the field.

[Money]

The brutal truth is that the re-structure of Flacco's contract (before they ever really suffered a large cap hit from the original deal) was fiscally irresponsible (cap wise) and probably the biggest mistake this organization has ever made. At the very least, they needed to ride out the $28 mil cap hit for 2016 to allow themselves to get on top of the deal a bit. Instead...they married the organization to Flacco for an additional 3 years in order to save freaking $6 mil this year against the cap.

 

The game has passed Ozzie by (from a GM perspective). He needs to retire. The coaching staff needs to go (from Harbaugh down).

[vmax]

Interesting take from Derick Mason....

 

 

 

"As far as John [Harbaugh] losing the locker room, I don't think that's the case," Mason said. "He has, as we call, enough skins on the wall, enough cache that these younger guys need to listen. He's won a Super Bowl; he's been very successful as a head coach, so if you're not listening to him, then you need not be in that locker room anyway."

Mason went on to acknowledge a slight difference in the approach from Newsome and DeCosta, yet made clear the difference is less with the Ravens' front office philosophy and more with the talent entering the league on a yearly basis.

"I just think the players are different in this generation, I really do, and I hate to say that," Mason said. "In the sense of, when [Newsome] was picking eight, nine, 10 years ago, he was picking men, men that wanted to play the game. That's what he was doing; that's what Ozzie was doing. Now he's picking boys that like the game, but they want the fame more than anything. That's the difference. It's no slight to those guys, because, listen, they did what they needed to do in college to be in the NFL, and it's a privilege.

"But when you were picking [linebacker] Terrell Suggs, when you were picking [linebacker] Ray Lewis, when you were picking [safety] Ed Reed, when you were picking [defensive lineman] Haloti Ngata, you were picking men. Men that loved the game, men that wanted to come in and prove that they could be a Baltimore Raven. I don't know if that's the case now, and that's across the board, that's not just the Baltimore Ravens, that's across the board. So it's a generation where you just don't know if the guys truly love the sport the way the other guys did."....https://www.pressboxonline.com/2016/10/25/former-baltimore-ravens-wr-derrick-mason-joe-flacco-needs-to-play-better-point-blank

[vmax]

The brutal truth is that the re-structure of Flacco's contract (before they ever really suffered a large cap hit from the original deal) was fiscally irresponsible (cap wise) and probably the biggest mistake this organization has ever made. At the very least, they needed to ride out the $28 mil cap hit for 2016 to allow themselves to get on top of the deal a bit. Instead...they married the organization to Flacco for an additional 3 years in order to save freaking $6 mil this year against the cap.

 

The game has passed Ozzie by (from a GM perspective). He needs to retire. The coaching staff needs to go (from Harbaugh down).

 

1. I agree that the Flacco contract is bad and has a negative CAP implication that hurts this franchise.

2. I agree that Joe has not lived up to his contract period since the Super Bowl. This bothers me mor,e because if he had taken his game to another level and played like he is paid to play, then #1 would be irrelevant.

 

I still need more time to inventory this mess on how the franchise has sunk/stunk so low.... so...I'm not on the bandwagon with those who are calling for Ozzie's and Harbaugh's head...and the heads of many on the coaching staff too.

Harbaugh has that fiery temperament and inability to quit or stomach mediocrity. Right now I'm sure he's on everybody demanding results...including himself. I really want to see what he can do for the rest of this season. It may be a Fail and it just might be his greatest coaching accomplishment other than winning the Super Bowl.

Don't get me wrong....I see flaws in Harbaugh. Does he change for the better?

 

As of today, I think Mornhinweg, Peas and Castillo have to go. Maybe keep Peas because he is getting a lot of production from a unit less talented than Alabama's D. Yet his unit scares nobody. We'll see.

[oldno82]

Joe has not lived up to his contract.

the renegotiated contract really sucks and I agree they should have ridden the last one out. If they had the cap would be a lot higher today because Joe's negotiating strength this year and last year is about zero.

 

I think Harbs has to go at the end of the season. He's just worn out his message here. As has been already mentioned all our tough guys are gone except for Suggs, and he's old and injured now, there is no player on the defense that scares opposing teams. Ditto for Smith SR and the offense.

 

It's time for Oz to retire too.

 

Not sure Da Costa would be any better after the last several drafts we've had.

 

Whoever is responsible for having the final say on draft picks HAS to go. Steve B has has real big decisions to make.

 

Not sure the Ravens will win another game this year. If so, they might just get a top 5 draft pick. Big Woop...

[oldno82]

If we have any glimmer of optimism it's this:

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Eisenberg-The-Key-To-Maneuvering-Out-Of-Ravens-Dark-Place/cc47b93f-ebda-4f8a-b58a-4288b567d081

 

Even that glimmer is very dim to me.

[52isUnstoppable]

I agree that Flacco has not performed as we all hoped when we signed the mega deal. However, the extension made a lot of sense at the time. It was structured in a way that kept the cap hit the same over the length of the contract. No huge jumps like his first deal. Given the fact that the league cap is increasing that means that Flacco actually cap hit percentage will be less and less each year. He basically gets cheaper. And let's face it, franchise quarterbacks are ALL getting paid. Its not like Flacco is the only 20M+ guy in the NFL right now. Guys with less accomplishments are getting the same. Its the market value right now.

 

I don't know whats wrong with Flacco this year. I think some of it is related to his knee. Physically his knee is probably good but like most guys there's a mental aspect to recovery. If you notice he never steps up in the pocket he always gets out of the pocket. His feet are never set, he never steps into his throws.

 

I also think his O-line is garbage. I dont want to sound like a Flacco apologist but it's not his fault that we signed Monroe and then immediately cut him and signed Stanley. Now Stanley is hurt. We kept Yanda over KO, and Yanda is hurt. Wagner and Zuttah have both regressed from average to below average. Hurst and Urschell shouldn't be starting on the line.

 

I also think our playcalling is garbage. We do nothing exotic. Our offense is so bland. We have receivers who can't get open one on one and yet we do nothing to help them. We dont use motion, dont do rubs, dont do screens or pick plays. We dont work the middle of the field anymore, we dont run the ball effectively. We dont have a true slot receiver with Smith Sr out. We look like a pop warner ball team on offense.

[vmax]

Speaking of Joe, here's Harbaugh's comments today....

 

 

Ravens coach John Harbaugh gave a strong (and long) defense of Joe Flacco's play this season: "I'm a Joe Flacco fan. I believe in Joe, and Joe is certainly on offense the key to the whole thing. Joe Flacco is a great football player. Joe Flacco is the key to our success. So, we need to all do everything in our power that all the things are falling in place for him. He can play. He can throw it. He can make decisions. He can score touchdowns for us. He can do all the things we need to do. We need to make sure that we give him a chance to do that. Joe will take care of what he needs to do. I'm not worried about Joe taking care of what he needs to do. Joe works on it harder than anybody. He cares about it more than anybody. We need to protect him. We need to run routes. We need to create confidence in our passing game. We need to run the ball well. We need to do the things we need to do to make the offense work. And Joe will make the offense work."....http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/bal/baltimore-ravens

[vmax]

Here's Joe's take on Joe...

 

 

"I'm obviously not playing good enough," Flacco said Wednesday after the team's final practice of the bye week. "We're not a good offense, and it starts with the quarterback. I got to be better." "When you're an offense in this league and things aren't going great, a lot of times you can be so close, and I think we are on that verge of being really close," Flacco said. "But it's a bunch of little things, and it's not just one thing. It's things that add up. That's why this game is an awesome thing: 11 guys have to be fully locked in for 60 minutes in order for it to work. Nobody notices that. We don't even notice it when we're out there playing, but it is the reality of it."...http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17893286/quarterback-joe-flacco-says-not-playing-good-enough-baltimore-ravens