Zorn Fired

[papasmurfbell]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/01/leron-mcclain-chimes-in-on-zorn-firing-flacco-reaction/

 

Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco made waves on Saturday, going on the record to state his disagreement with the team’s decision to fire quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn.

 

On Tuesday, Ravens fullback Le’Ron McClain applauded Flacco’s move during an appearance with Jerry Coleman on FOX 1370 Sports Radio in Baltimore.

 

“I’m glad he said something,” McClain said. “That was big on Joe, you see how much he has matured from his rookie year to now, him just making a statement on that. He had his coach’s back. I felt the same way that he felt. The guy that had his back and stepped [his] game up a little bit this year, a lot this year, and the way [he] threw the ball and go through all that, and get rid of [his] coach. [He] just had to say something. . . . I can see where Joe’s coming from.”

 

McClain also said that he was surprised by the firing of Zorn, and that Flacco was “different” this year with Zorn’s involvement.

 

“You could see it in his stats and how he played,” McClain said.

 

McClain added that Zorn was a “great coach with us” and a “great friend to me.”

 

It remains to be seen whether any other Ravens add their two cents on the matter. For now, the tally is Zorn 2, Ravens 0.

 

the Ravens better start getting in front of this. Harbs could lose the locker room if he isn't careful.

[cravnravn]

the Ravens better start getting in front of this. Harbs could lose the locker room if he isn't careful.

 

Why?? Joe is stepping up to be the clubhouse leader, isnt that what we wanted, for 3 years all we heard was "Joe is too quiet" "Joe shows no emotions" Well now he stepped up..Im happy for Joe, he has IT..

 

If this was Brady or Pay-A-Ton not a damn thing would be said..

 

Bravo for Joe!!

Edited February 2, 2011 by cravnravn

[papasmurfbell]

I did post the article now with a 2nd player is jumping in on the topic. How many have the same opinion but have said nothing?

[yagersports]

Crav I agree, good for Joe. He needs to step up and be the leader. He also needs to accept that what is done is done and he'll have to move on without Zorn. I am extremely happy Joe is beginning to grab hold of his own destiny.

[Spen]

I have absolutely no problem with Joe speaking up and making his disappointment known. Nor with the sideline argument with Mason. However I am far from convinced this is anything other than him voicing his displeasure. Speaking up doesn't automatically make you a leader or mean you are taking control of your destiny.

 

Also I have no idea how good of a coach Zorn was to Joe, but just because he was popular and some players said he was good doesn't mean he was doing a good job with the team.

 

I dont know what will happen, maybe this is Joe taking a leadership role and maybe Zorn was a great coach. There is also a chance of the vocal displeasure creating a rift on the team that may create problems. We shall see.

[thundercleetz]

I disagree completely with that. Well our weapons were good before they got here and into this offense with this QB.

 

Where is our deep threat? Manning, Rogers, Ben, Brees, Ryan, and all the great QBs have one. And why is Cam running possession receivers like Boldin, TJ and Mason 30 yards downfield every play? That's Cam's fault that the receivers are being used poorly. It's not Joe's fault that Boldin dropped the TD in the Steelers game or that TJ dropped the first down pass on fourth down. How about that dropped TD by Mason in the Pats game which would have sealed the game? It's not all on Joe, Cam and the receivers are just as much to blame.

 

Well first of all Joe isn't awful I just don't think he is anything better than average. If his primary target is open Joe has a great and accurate arm and often gets them the ball. There is no helping some QBs. 2nd, if some of our previous QBs had Ray Rice to throw to as much as Joe does there stats would be better too. And yes I do think teams can create game plans to help a players strengths and hide his weaknesses and I do think Cam did a good job of doing that with Joe.

 

There is no evidence of that. Geo already proved that the runningback receiving numbers are already a wash when it comes to Joe's stats. Maybe if Boller had better receivers he might have put up better stats, but Boller also had one of the best running games in the league to work with. I don't see any evidence of Cam doing a good job of using players to their strengths. I saw a power run game when our line was weak, I saw sluggish receivers being sent 30 yards downfield when Joe was left to die by the pass rush waiting for these guys to get open, and I saw horrible pass protection schemes on the line. Where were the screens to Boldin? Where were the quick slants to counter the blitz? Where was the no huddle offense to counter the blitz? Where is the route set up? There are no pics, screens, or slants to free up other receivers. I completely disagree with your assessment of Cam.

 

I do not see Joe being more comfortable in a spread offense. He cannot see, or doesnt even look, around the field now. If it was up to me I'd keep 1 good target and have the rest of the receivers minimum wage ones or rookies. I still think Flacco looks check down first more times than not and that leaves a lot of yards on the field.

Yeah all QBs get confused at times but good ones do not as often as Joe does. Most QBs can find targets somewhere when the defense rushes three and give the QB lots of time. Not Joe.

 

I actually agree with you here. I think what we have seen from Joe is pretty close to what we aough tre going to get. What we disagree on is whether Joe is being used to the best of his talents. You say most QBs can find targets somewhere when the defense rushes three and gives the QB lots of time, that all goes back to my point of route set up. Look at the good passing teams in this league. thrThe Steelers, Packers, Colts, Pats, all these receivers know how to come back to the ball when their routes are over. All these receivers know how to find an open spot in the zone. When have you ever seen a Raven receiver come back to the QB? When have you ever seen a Ravens receiver fight his butt off like Hines Ward to fight through a zone to get open? It doesn't happen with the Ravens. That's the problem right there. It also doesn't help when you have Cam sending slow receivers thirty yards downfield.

 

I guess we were watching different games because I clearly saw Joe go through progressions before the checkdown. Now, obviously there were times that Joe held on to the ball too long, that happened a lot. I just think there is a lot more that Joe could do. He posted a 93 QB rating in an offense that didn't use him to his strengths. Get him in an offense with more quick slants and better protection against the blitz and he is only going to put up better numbers. Joe had many TD drops this past season. I see no reason why he couldn't throw 30 TDs. That is far from average.

 

I completely agree with you though on the WR corp. The Steelers model is the way to go. Let Boldin be the Hines Ward who does all the underneath stuff, then draft a bunch of young, fast receivers to press the secondary and keep them honest.

[varaven45]

Where is our deep threat? Manning, Rogers, Ben, Brees, Ryan, and all the great QBs have one. And why is Cam running possession receivers like Boldin, TJ and Mason 30 yards downfield every play? That's Cam's fault that the receivers are being used poorly. It's not Joe's fault that Boldin dropped the TD in the Steelers game or that TJ dropped the first down pass on fourth down. How about that dropped TD by Mason in the Pats game which would have sealed the game? It's not all on Joe, Cam and the receivers are just as much to blame.

 

 

 

There is no evidence of that. Geo already proved that the runningback receiving numbers are already a wash when it comes to Joe's stats. Maybe if Boller had better receivers he might have put up better stats, but Boller also had one of the best running games in the league to work with. I don't see any evidence of Cam doing a good job of using players to their strengths. I saw a power run game when our line was weak, I saw sluggish receivers being sent 30 yards downfield when Joe was left to die by the pass rush waiting for these guys to get open, and I saw horrible pass protection schemes on the line. Where were the screens to Boldin? Where were the quick slants to counter the blitz? Where was the no huddle offense to counter the blitz? Where is the route set up? There are no pics, screens, or slants to free up other receivers. I completely disagree with your assessment of Cam.

 

 

 

I actually agree with you here. I think what we have seen from Joe is pretty close to what we aough tre going to get. What we disagree on is whether Joe is being used to the best of his talents. You say most QBs can find targets somewhere when the defense rushes three and gives the QB lots of time, that all goes back to my point of route set up. Look at the good passing teams in this league. thrThe Steelers, Packers, Colts, Pats, all these receivers know how to come back to the ball when their routes are over. All these receivers know how to find an open spot in the zone. When have you ever seen a Raven receiver come back to the QB? When have you ever seen a Ravens receiver fight his butt off like Hines Ward to fight through a zone to get open? It doesn't happen with the Ravens. That's the problem right there. It also doesn't help when you have Cam sending slow receivers thirty yards downfield.

 

I guess we were watching different games because I clearly saw Joe go through progressions before the checkdown. Now, obviously there were times that Joe held on to the ball too long, that happened a lot. I just think there is a lot more that Joe could do. He posted a 93 QB rating in an offense that didn't use him to his strengths. Get him in an offense with more quick slants and better protection against the blitz and he is only going to put up better numbers. Joe had many TD drops this past season. I see no reason why he couldn't throw 30 TDs. That is far from average.

 

I completely agree with you though on the WR corp. The Steelers model is the way to go. Let Boldin be the Hines Ward who does all the underneath stuff, then draft a bunch of young, fast receivers to press the secondary and keep them honest.

 

 

Bingorama ! Clean up the OL, get the WR speedsters but return to rock pounding. We do that, we'll be allright, even with Cam.

 

[Spen]

Thundercleetz, its good to go back and forth with you and that even though we disagree that it remains civil. Again I cannot argue with his stats, they are very good, but from watching him and what I think his weaknesses are I think he is no more than average, you do not. I do not think either of us will change our mind and I get tired from arguing against players on my favorite team. For the record I hope you are correct, its much easier to replace an OC or a add a receiver or two than it is to find a good QB. My hunch is that we will be able to continue this debate next season as I, with the reasons we disagree on, do not expect anything improvement.

[papasmurfbell]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/05/ravens-players-threatened-to-go-to-union-about-long-playoff-practices/

 

One sign that Baltimore’s loss to the Steelers was particularly painful: There continues to be stories coming out of some team dysfunction before the game.

 

This one is pretty minor, but interesting. Mike Preston of the Baltimore Sun reports some players threatened to go to the media and player’s union about the length of John Harbaugh’s practices before the game.

 

There were reportedly “tense moments” but the coaching staff and leadership “came to an agreement.” It appears the Ravens’ players weren’t confident they were being given the proper rest while preparing for Pittsburgh on a short week.

 

It’s an odd story, just like the Jim Zorn firing aftermath. We’ll ask the Ravens if they’d like to respond to this one.

 

Like I said the coaching staff needs to start getting out in front of things or they will lose the team. They had someone run to the NFLPA during the mini camps. Now players were threatening to go again. You also have a divide between your QB and the OC. These are not good signs.

[geo]

Well Harbs is now 36-19, most W in a 3-year period.. In 1999-2001 we had 35-19.

 

So if players and Coaches respond like they did in 2006.. after the 2005 season when the chemesty also were down, we are safe and the logic answer has to be 19-0.

 

I am not disputing that there are some kind of tension, there are obviously.

 

However Harbs is now 36-17.. and 13 Ws this year would not happend if Harbs has not most of his players back. we are good, not that good that we just win without some kind of overall understanding. And;

 

- Also it has probably been the first season when all three units did their part. Also again a solid positive turnoverratio.

 

- And something you have to give Harbs for is the total turnaround in penalties.. fewest penalties ever! And winning the yards + 673 yards against 984 yards (it was 3. most only 98-98 the opponents comminted more yards against us) + 311 yards this year, last year it was -353 yards.. If this team has broke that bad boys image, it is fine by me, hardly a sign for a dysfunctional team.

[PurpleHaze]

Don't like the move at all because Joe worked well with Zorn. Hopefully him and Cam can set aside their differences and make this offense something to have to deal with for 4 quarters every week.

[papasmurfbell]

If there is a growing disconnect between players and the coaching staff then these numbers will start heading down. If Harbs circling of the wagons around Cam further alienates players from coaches the team will not get better.

[oldno82]

If there is a growing disconnect between players and the coaching staff then these numbers will start heading down. If Harbs circling of the wagons around Cam further alienates players from coaches the team will not get better.

 

Very true on both counts.

[yagersports]

It seems that Zorn was popular with the players. Wasn't Rex and Hugh popular with the players as well? I'm really not sure if this is good or bad or indifferent, however I'm noticing a trend. If you're a player's coach in this organization it seems to me that you are shown the door after awhile. Maybe I'm reaching, I very well could be, I'm still upset about the playoff loss. I can't deny however that I do believe, despite Harbaugh's success, that Rex would have been the better choice for this team. It's clear that Rex is more than your average DC, he's a legit HC and a very good one. If Hugh ends up being a very good HC too, I'm going to begin to question some things.

[papasmurfbell]

Well Rex and Hugh got a new job. It is not like they were pushed out.

[cravnravn]

Zorn just hired to be QB coach of the Chiefs