Geno Smith

[tsylvester]

Okay, I know, I know this is not the Seahawks forum. Yes, yes I know, we are only roughly half way through the season, they may still fall a part, miss the playoffs, be a one year wonder.

But, with a solid defense, good running game, in today's NFL, is a top notch qb needed? I know, a few days ago I said the days of a care taker qb are over, but seeing the putrid play from around the league, maybe I am wwwrong.

Smith is proving, right now anyway, that Seatle was correct to trade Wilson, go with a cheaper qb.

So it got me thinking, football is not basketball nor baseball, where injuries ending careers are few & far between. There is no place in the NFL, a sport of violence, for guaranteed contracts, certainly not for exhorbanate money.

We got a good look at Huntley last season, the team lost most of those games. But then, the defense was horrible, riddled with injuries at every position. The backfield and offensive line was as well.

So, I know papa like the idea of playing roulette with the qb position, but with a healthy defense, offense, do you think Huntely could take this team far?

Would it be wiser to tag & trade Lamar, get the max picks, and boost the wide receivers, fortify the defense, so that Huntley could have the best chance to succeed? He does, is more accurate down field passing than Lamar currently is....

[papasmurfbell]

It may not be huntly long term.  But to hold things down until you pick your guy sure.

[vmax]

How many teams got burned by having Stone on their roster. It was a long time coming for the light bulb to go off. What's he like??? 32?

No thanks. I've lived the QB carousel. I saw A lot of great Ravens teams wasted because of poor QB execution.

What did we get with Vinny, Harbaugh, Mitchell,  Banks, Case, Boller, Grbac, Redman,  Wright, Blake, McNair? 

We had some wins because of the great defense. A few exciting games. A lot of disappointing ones where you were left wondering, "If only "

[tsylvester]

I hear ya max, but over the next 2 years there are going to be some very, very good college quarterbacks coming out to be drafted. Guys who are accurate on deep throws, quick releases and can make a defense pay with their legs.

In today's game, college, player, quarterbacks are being taught far better than yesteryear.

Even our very own Huntley is likley to win those games he lost last year, with this year's defense.

The Ravens changed, built their offense around Lamar, imagine if they had done that for Joe..

So now you have a young offensive line coming together, maybe it doesn't need a Lamar Jackson, to win it all.

 

[oldno82]

While I think we need Lamar right now, I think Tsyl is reading the future accurately. There is a lot of college qb talent coming out over the next 2 years at least that is going to be a golden age of quarterbacks. They can make all the throws and be mobile enough to either move around in the pocket or in other cases be able to take off and run. Lamar could be expendable as soon as next year or the year after.

[vmax]

So we can get a franchise QB with the #28 pick or 32nd? 

 

[papasmurfbell]

Or trade Lamar and put a package together of the 8th pick or pick and the 24 pick to move up.  

 

Also the 28 or 32nd pick?  What are you smoking?  The 26th as the earliest.

[tsylvester]

3 hours ago, vmax said:

So we can get a franchise QB with the #28 pick or 32nd? 

 

Well, that would depend on what they could get for Lamar. He is "worth more" than Wilson (Thirteen months later, Seattle traded Wilson to the Denver Broncos along with a 2022 fourth-round pick in exchange for Drew Lock, Shelby Harris, Noah Fant, Denver's first- and second-rounders in each of the next two drafts as well as a 2022 fifth-rounder)

Now that alone would certainly make draft moves easier and not be a draft future in despair.

Sure, we don't know if any of those future qbs will be good NFL qbs, but, $50 mil cap hit for one player?

Maybe they can get Sam Howell from the Commandos along with picks. He is every bit as good, talent wise, as anyone in the draft. Makes all the throws, good touch on down field passes, back shoulder passes. He is also very, very mobile. Big strong kid.

That gives you draft capital, 4 more years of a rookie deal with Howell, and still a solid line and defense augmented with draft capital, as an example

[tsylvester]

Rogers, 15 of 27, 218 yards, 1 touchdown 3 picks, against the Lions.

Allen, 14 of 24, 175 yards, 2 picks, 2 rushing touchdowns against the Jets

Herbert, 22 of 33 165 yards, 1 td 1 pick

All high dollar qbs, still time to play better in the 4th, but.... food for thought

[tsylvester]

3 hours ago, papasmurfbell said:

Or trade Lamar and put a package together of the 8th pick or pick and the 24 pick to move up.  

 

Also the 28 or 32nd pick?  What are you smoking?  The 26th as the earliest.

Maybe, the Jets just beat the Bills.. Any given Sunday

[papasmurfbell]

The regular season and the POs are two very different animals.

[tsylvester]

1 hour ago, papasmurfbell said:

The regular season and the POs are two very different animals.

Yes they are and the favorites do not always win....

[papasmurfbell]

True.  But most of the time they do and with only 1 bye its a real gauntlet to make it.  The team that coasts bye untested with a schedule of losers will be exposed.  Where is that quality win on the schedule?  Only losers or teams that were floundering at the time do the Ravens have a win against.  I would expect if they played the Jets now the Ravens lose that game.  Going forward a run of slappies until maybe Cincy is on their feet again in the last game.  Like I said untested.  

[tsylvester]

Untested? This isn't college football. They were tested last year, all of the subs that were forced to play major snaps most of the year.

They were tested in the Miami game, trying to hold a huge lead, it ain't easy, same with Buffalo.

Now that they are just about fully healthy, this season is about building chemistry, finding out what works (new DC).

Yes, they will be tested, staying focused in games where they are favored, against bad teams,. What do most players do on bad teams?

They play for contracts, which means they break scheme, they are harder to block, harder to plan for, can be a real challenge.

Oh they will be tested, this is essentially the same core group of players who went 14-2.

With Smith now leading the defense, with Williams coming back in December, a fully healthy Peters & Humphries, experienced back ups, all along the defensive line and in the secondary, this defense should be very, very good.

The line is working out great with Stanley back, with Powers at guard, Lindy at center, Moses at the other tackle and pretty good depth too boot, once Gus and JK get back, with how well now Drake has taken to this running system plus how well Justice is now playing, yes, this run game will be able to run against anyone.

What does a playoff team need? What travels well? Defense & running game, both need reps to work cohesively, reps against bad teams works just fine...

[oldno82]

Well put!

 

[tsylvester]

Thnx oldno, to bring this back to the qb discussion, I wonder if with all of the aforementioned can a journeyman qb keep, make this team a winner?

Sure, he has to be able to run so that the read option is still a threat. We know that Huntley can run and he does have good touch on passes that need it, also on deep throws. He just doesn't have the rocket arm Lamar does nor the true wiggle on runs to be honest.

[papasmurfbell]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:26 PM, tsylvester said:

Untested? This isn't college football. They were tested last year, all of the subs that were forced to play major snaps most of the year.

They were tested in the Miami game, trying to hold a huge lead, it ain't easy, same with Buffalo.

Now that they are just about fully healthy, this season is about building chemistry, finding out what works (new DC).

Yes, they will be tested, staying focused in games where they are favored, against bad teams,. What do most players do on bad teams?

They play for contracts, which means they break scheme, they are harder to block, harder to plan for, can be a real challenge.

Oh they will be tested, this is essentially the same core group of players who went 14-2.

With Smith now leading the defense, with Williams coming back in December, a fully healthy Peters & Humphries, experienced back ups, all along the defensive line and in the secondary, this defense should be very, very good.

The line is working out great with Stanley back, with Powers at guard, Lindy at center, Moses at the other tackle and pretty good depth too boot, once Gus and JK get back, with how well now Drake has taken to this running system plus how well Justice is now playing, yes, this run game will be able to run against anyone.

What does a playoff team need? What travels well? Defense & running game, both need reps to work cohesively, reps against bad teams works just fine...

And against quality talent they have failed.  Against bad talent they have won.  In that they have only bad talent the rest of the way there are no tests that they can pass to show they belong with the big boys.

[tsylvester]

True, however I will counter with McDonald, who has made great adjustments as each game passes. With players understanding more of his ways of calling plays, with him seeing how best to use the players, what they are good at doing, it appears that he has found out how to stop the bleeding, as it were.

We shall see..

[vmax]

Huntly can't do this. 

Why can't you be happy with the incredible team and QB that we have?

This season is setting up to be a fan's dream.

[tsylvester]

Huntley can and has done that. I don't put much stock in a qb hitting a wide open man, more so in one missing a wide open man.

I am happy with the team max, just asking a question, is a fully guaranteed contract for $300 mil worth it if...

With a solid defense, good offensive line, a Huntley /drafted qb can help this team win... food for thought stuff ya know..

[vmax]

Only 4 out of 18 QBs drafted prior to 2019 are on their original teams. Franchise QBs don’t grow on trees.

Where are you getting $330 mil from?

".....is a fully guaranteed contract for $300 mil worth it if...We have 5 more years of competitive exciting football? The Ravens win 2 SB's over the next 5 year?"

Nobody knows the future, yet we can have a good idea of what the roster will look like with $300 mil guaranteed. Thin. 

No way I endorse $300 mil guaranteed. Use the franchise tag one more time, see if Lamar will lower his guaranteed money demands, if not, then see if there are any offers for him. I doubt there will be when they know the Ravens can't afford to franchise him in 2024. We'll lose him and get a compensatory pick. 

Now....$235 mil guaranteed? I'm warming up to that. Because we'll lose him, get basically nothing and have to start all over again. Andrews, Gus, JK, Tucker, Peters, Humphry, other players won't be around for forever.

 

[tsylvester]

It is true buddy, most qbs in the draft do not work out, for one reason or another. Some are good back ups, come in for a game here or there but over the course of a season, defenses figure them out.

Lamar is locked in on that $300 mil fully guaranteed, so why wait until 2024 to move him? Especially when you want to sign a great mlb? Huntley knows the system, tag & trade Lamar, draft a qb with potential, give hom a year to learn the system while Huntley runs the offense. You get draft capital, get to see if Huntley can do the job with a good offensive line/running game and strong defense. By 2024 you have your answer at qb with a good core young team.

[vmax]

Where does this $300 mil figure come from? This is the 1st time that I have heard it.

The rest of your speculation sounds like what we saw from 2001 to 2008. Great defense and special teams wasted because they could not find a QB. 

[tsylvester]

17 minutes ago, vmax said:

Where does this $300 mil figure come from? This is the 1st time that I have heard it.

The rest of your speculation sounds like what we saw from 2001 to 2008. Great defense and special teams wasted because they could not find a QB. 

Excuse me, $290 mil was turned down,

Reports from national sources across the NFL are stating quarterback Lamar Jackson declined a six-year, $290 million contract extension from the

Baltimore Ravens.

So either he wants $300 mil or wants the guaranteed money

Sources: Lamar Jackson rejected a Ravens' 6-yr contract offer with $133 million fully guaranteed at signing, which is more than Russell Wilson ($124 million) and Kyler Murray ($103.3 million) but well short of the $230 million fully guaranteed deal that Deshaun Watson got.

In terms of total money over the six years, Jackson could have earned in excess of $290 million and his average per year would exceed Russell Wilson's recent deal at $48.5 APY, which did adjust the Ravens final offer but the contract was not fully guaranteed as Jackson sought

I realize that this is the type of money top quarterbacks are going to make in the near future and beyond. Until the NFL enacts a clause for exclusion of some sort, that is a ton of money tied up ($48.5 mil per year) in one position.

So it is going to take great drafting each year to keep the window open.

 

 

[tsylvester]

Here is a look at how the Bill's were able to work Allen's monster contract, for reference

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/josh-allen-contract-details-salary-bonuses/

 

x

 

 

Jump around this article Click to show

Josh Allen has just completed his fourth year in the NFL and signed a blockbuster new contract with the Buffalo Bills last offseason. Let’s examine the details of Allen’s contract, his impact on the Bills’ salary cap in 2022, and his reported net worth.

Josh Allen’s contract details and bonuses

Entering his fourth year in the NFL, Allen and the Bills agreed to a six-year, $258 million contract extension. Allen was entering the fourth season of his rookie contract after the Bills had exercised his fifth-year option earlier in the offseason.

Allen’s extension contains $100 million in full guarantees with $150 million guaranteed in total throughout the contract’s lifetime. Interestingly, the deal only contained $16.5 million in signing bonus initially. However, an option bonus of $42.5 million will be paid in 2022. There is also a reported $30 million in additional incentives.

The reason for using the option bonus to split the signing bonus was to keep Allen’s cap number under control in 2021. The option bonus is fully guaranteed. However, it saved the Bills from carrying an extra $8.5 million in prorated bonus money in 2021. That is because there was already $3.371 million in prorated money remaining from the rookie contract. Now that has expired from the contract, the Bills can take on more prorated money in 2022 and beyond.