Scranton in deep $#!+

[vmax]

I find this unbelievable. This is the United States of America 2012.

 

Unions representing civil servants in the city of Scranton, Pa., are girding for battle after the mayor announced recently that he would be cutting pay for police, firefighters, garbage collectors and other public workers to minimum wage.

The unions' attorney, Thomas Jennings, told the Scranton Times-Tribune Tuesday that they would be filing a lawsuit against Mayor Chris Doherty in federal court under the Fair Labor Standards Act accusing the city of failing to pay wages on time and failing to pay overtime.

The lawsuit will be among several legal actions the unions may take after Doherty made the announcement last Friday that the city's 398 workers would be paid $7.25 an hour because the city was running out of money.

Scranton is among a number of U.S. cities struggling to pay their bills amid rising labor costs. Earlier this month, Stockton, Calif., became the largest city in U.S. history to file for bankruptcy protection from creditors.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/10/12659748-scranton-pa-slashes-workers-pay-to-minimum-wage?lite

 

 

I wonder if the Mayor is working for $7.25 an hour?

[papasmurfbell]

Of course not. Neither is his aids or the city council or their aids. Just the people onthe front line.

[dc.]

Did you miss the part where it was also because tax payers and those working for the city refused to accept increased taxes or fees? He tried to fix it - without just cutting massive numbers - but was shot down. So cut massive numbers. That's what the republicans want, right? Spend less! Doesn't matter where, just spend less!

 

(Also - I think it might apply to the mayor and his staffers, an article I read implied ALL people on city payrolls)

[papasmurfbell]

[cravnravn]

Well thats real fucking brilliant, save tax dollars but pay the Co firefighters OT..

[thundercleetz]

I find this unbelievable. This is the United States of America 2012.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if the Mayor is working for $7.25 an hour?

 

Actually he did cut his pay to min wage as well. The ironic part to me: the guy is a Democrat and is about to piss off the unions I agree his measures are extreme, but the guy is identifying a major problem.

[cravnravn]

Did you miss the part where it was also because tax payers and those working for the city refused to accept increased taxes or fees? He tried to fix it - without just cutting massive numbers - but was shot down. So cut massive numbers. That's what the republicans want, right? Spend less! Doesn't matter where, just spend less!

 

(Also - I think it might apply to the mayor and his staffers, an article I read implied ALL people on city payrolls)

 

Thats what I got out of it, and it wasnt permanent..

Md State workers have furlough days which they must take, unpaid..Wonder if Ohio thought of that way, Im sorry but 5 unpaid days a year is not going to put someone homeless or have their utilities turned off, if it does, than that individual has other issues.

 

I took numerous unpaid days off at UPS, and I turned out fine..

[Dunno]

I don't see the problem.

 

No goverment can spend more than it can take in taxes in perpetuity. This goes from the local goverment all the way to the federal.

 

The fact that politicians lie about this fact all the time doesn't make it factually wrong.

 

In the end, the only solution seems to be the way Sandy Springs, Georgia is run. In case you haven't seen it, forward to 20:00 minutes.

 

Courtesy of Capital Account

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx3PkS69UrQ

[vmax]

Thanks Dunno. That was great.... very interesting.

Loved the part about competition keeping the price down.

 

Unfortunately, this can't be done in Baltimore.

The members of the City Council would be demanding so may kickbacks from their relatives and friends, whom they give the contracts too, that costs would skyrocket. Factor in, that these reletives and friends had never run a business before and...well.... it would look about that same as it does now.

You have to have honest people with no self serving motives running the show in local goverment. What are the odds of that ever happening here?

 

Well...just keep raising taxes, up the price for water ect...keep shrinking the tax base by chasing potential homeowners and businesses away...and spend 6 times for what one hard working private contractor would charge to do a job efficiently...oh!...and pass a bill that lengthens their term of service so voters can't oust them until they have totally raided the refridgherator.

[papasmurfbell]

I don't know what the exact issue is up in Pennsyltucky. In Co they are under taxing and can't pay for the basics. Also there has been a great deal of tax the middle class and dump it off to the wealthy. GHW Bush was right in 1980. It is voodoo.

 

Here in MD they are rediculous with taxes. Annapolis wastes so much.

[Spen]

I just finished a good book called 'Methland'. Its about the rise of meth production and usage in small town America. It has good and sad stuff in it about how legislation that would have help slow down the rise, and the rise of the very violent Mexican cartel, repeatedly got watered down by lobbyists.

 

As much as the book was about drugs it was also about the death of small town America due to job loss and other economic factors. Two of the towns profiled in the book had local factories that were sold and the very first day under new ownership (Tyson, Gillette) the unions were not recognized and salaries were cut from $18 an hour to $6. Overnight. Don't like it? Don't work here. Oh and no benefits. That just killed the town. Later, Tyson was caught advertising for jobs in Tijuana offering 2 months rent for Mexicans who made it to Olwein IA. The company was sued but won by using a 'how are we supposed to know if our workers are legal or not?' defense. The new Mexican workers were usually paid less than $5 an hour.

 

Along the way different debates would come up about what the companies and/or the government could or should do to help the town and other like it. Usually nothing was done and the normal reasons of 'its a capitalistic society' and 'free market' would be thrown around. The funny part about that was that in years passed the economy of many small particularly agriculture towns were based on the free market. A farmer or rancher would grow or raise his crops then shop around and sell them the buy who gave him the best deal. The competing buyers set the price. Those days are gone. Cargill and other agricultural giants grew tired of competition and would buy up the town, its grain elevators, its slaughterhouses, and even the railroads in a small town. Then they would tell the farmers and ranchers what they would pay. Being the only company buying in that town they set the price. From an economic standpoint, the small towns like this have economies that are closer to resembling communism than a capitalistic one.

 

Its a great book, sad but very interesting. Funny at times too.

[BengalBilly]

I just finished a good book called 'Methland'. Its about the rise of meth production and usage in small town America. It has good and sad stuff in it about how legislation that would have help slow down the rise, and the rise of the very violent Mexican cartel, repeatedly got watered down by lobbyists.

 

As much as the book was about drugs it was also about the death of small town America due to job loss and other economic factors. Two of the towns profiled in the book had local factories that were sold and the very first day under new ownership (Tyson, Gillette) the unions were not recognized and salaries were cut from $18 an hour to $6. Overnight. Don't like it? Don't work here. Oh and no benefits. That just killed the town. Later, Tyson was caught advertising for jobs in Tijuana offering 2 months rent for Mexicans who made it to Olwein IA. The company was sued but won by using a 'how are we supposed to know if our workers are legal or not?' defense. The new Mexican workers were usually paid less than $5 an hour.

 

Along the way different debates would come up about what the companies and/or the government could or should do to help the town and other like it. Usually nothing was done and the normal reasons of 'its a capitalistic society' and 'free market' would be thrown around. The funny part about that was that in years passed the economy of many small particularly agriculture towns were based on the free market. A farmer or rancher would grow or raise his crops then shop around and sell them the buy who gave him the best deal. The competing buyers set the price. Those days are gone. Cargill and other agricultural giants grew tired of competition and would buy up the town, its grain elevators, its slaughterhouses, and even the railroads in a small town. Then they would tell the farmers and ranchers what they would pay. Being the only company buying in that town they set the price. From an economic standpoint, the small towns like this have economies that are closer to resembling communism than a capitalistic one.

 

Its a great book, sad but very interesting. Funny at times too.

 

Huh... that sounds like an interesting book. I may have to check that one out.

[cravnravn]

Not reading any book that wants Unions done away with.

[dc.]

I've seen the Sandy Springs model elsewhere... recently I think it was Frederick, MD that was attempting to do something of the sort but got shot down by voters. There are a lot of perks, but also a lot of long-term unknowns with such a model.

 

Start with this - what happens when prices rise? Ideally, they won't rise quickly, but it might become a fact that one day it is more expensive for a company (all companies) to dispose of trash. How does the city pay the increased rate? With a smaller bureaucratic system, how does the city reallocate funds efficiently enough? How do you raise taxes or fees appropriately?

 

But add other issues - if more and more cities move to this model, we'll get to a point of nationwide "Walmarts" of trash hauling, sewage running, etc. To some extent, of course, these mega-marts of service already exist. But imagine if nationwide even 25% of municipalities were going to turn over their business to private groups. While a small local or state business might be able to serve Sandy Springs right now, will they be able to compete with the behemoth? Just the way WalMarts and Targets are destroying entire towns and their commercial sectors (and industrial sectors less directly), mega-suppliers of services would quickly overrun local suppliers - able to provide lower prices and more "efficiency." Of course, what's the problem with lower prices? Well, they derive largely from... lower wages and benefits. We can't all work for WalMart.

[BengalBilly]

Not reading any book that wants Unions done away with.

I don't think the book endorses that. Just writing about what happened.

[cravnravn]

Alright, Ill read it, its on the Mrs Kindle Fire list, I'll wait til it hits the free side.

[Spen]

I don't think the book endorses that. Just writing about what happened.

 

You're correct it doesn't endorse that, its just what happened. The book was a gift and I did not think I'd like it, but it was more interesting than depressing. Some of the funny stuff are how and where some of the people built their meth labs.

 

From Publishers Weekly

 

Using what he calls a "live-in reporting strategy," Reding's chronicle of a small-town crystal meth epidemic-about "the death of a way of life as much as... about the birth of a drug"-revolves around tiny Oelwein, Iowa, a 6,000-resident farming town nearly destroyed by the one-two punch of Big Agriculture modernization and skyrocketing meth production. Reding's wide cast of characters includes a family doctor, the man "in the best possible position from which to observe the meth phenomenon"; an addict who blew up his mother's house while cooking the stuff; and Lori Arnold (sister of actor Tom Arnold) who, as a teenager, built an extensive and wildly profitable crank empire in Ottumwa, Iowa (not once, but twice). Reding is at his best relating the bizarre, violent and disturbing stories from four years of research; heftier topics like big business and globalization, although fascinating, seem just out of Reding's weight class. A fascinating read for those with the stomach for it, Reding's unflinching look at a drug's rampage through the heartland stands out in an increasingly crowded field.

[papasmurfbell]

Ok I am going to check it out.

 

One thing I would love to see. If you employ an illegal and did not check their status then you get 2 yr in prison. If your boss is trying to force you to do it they get 5.

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/151635/ten_years_ago_portugal_legalized_all_drugs_--_what_happened_next

What happens when you legalize drugs.

[vmax]

Portugal's addict population and the problems that go along with addiction continue to increase," the DEA maintains.

 

It's worse...only difference is that they are not in jail.

[cravnravn]

Go ahead and legalize drugs....Carrying a gun is legal down here..I thought Baltimores & Yorks news were bad? this news is crazy for the first 20 minutes. I posted a link where robbers went intoan internet cafe to rob the folks, and a 71 year old man turned Rambo on the robbers and shot them both...

[papasmurfbell]

That old man was fantastic. Those kids falling all over themselves was great.

[papasmurfbell]

 

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/151635/ten_years_ago_portugal_legalized_all_drugs_--_what_happened_next

 

But for now, "the majority of EU states have rates that are double and triple the rate for post-decriminalization Portugal," Greenwald says.

 

Drug use of all kinds has declined in Portugal: Lifetime use among seventh to ninth graders fell from 14.01% to 10.6%. Lifetime heroin use among 16-18 year olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8%. And what about those horrific HIV infection rates that prompted the move in the first place? HIV infection rates among drug users fell by an incredible 17%, while drug related deaths were reduced by more than half.

 

Why would you believe the DEA? The war on drugs is a jobs program for them. They have a monitary motive to keep fighting this lost cause.

[papasmurfbell]

 

Just started reading it today. So far very interesting. Jesse makes some valid points. He shows how Washington and Adams were against the party system.

[cravnravn]