Interesting ESPN 30 for 30 tomorrow night; Elway to Marino

[thundercleetz]

The preview looked interesting, the tag line is: "The '83 NFL draft and how it changed the NFL forever." In the preview it showed Elway talking about Baltimore and how the Colts were considering taking Marino number one overall. So this got me thinking, what if the Colts had taken Marino? IMO, that would have set off a chain reaction:

 

1. The Colts would have never left Baltimore as Marino was a stud and would have definitely packed Memorial to watch him sling the ball around.

2. Baltimore at the time was considering a "Baltodome" for both the Orioles and the Colts as multi-purpose domes were the popular stadium choice at the time (Indy, Toronto, New Orleans, Houston, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Detroit among others built domes around that time that quickly became obsolet and required replacement or extensive rennovations). That would have been TERRIBLE as there would be NO CAMDEN YARDS! Both the O's and Ravens would probably be looking for new stadiums by now. As Baltimore today is pretty much maxed out with public debentures and taxes, who knows if we would be able to keep the teams?

3. No Ravens, no '01 and '13 Super Bowls, no Bisciotti, no Ozze/DeCosta/Cass, and we would be stuck with an Irsay as our owner. Sure maybe Marino would have won us a Super Bowl... or maybe not as he couldn't in Miami. Peyton to the Colts never happens, Ray Lewis is probably a Patriot or Brown (depending on where Belicheck is in '96).

 

I do not know about you guys, but I am perfectly happy with the F*** YOU we sent to Elway thirty years later with the Mile High Miracle! In a perfect world, IMO, we would have the Ravens (logo, colors and all) with the Baltimore Colts history (Indy keeps the team, history stays with Baltimore as part of the Ravens franchise). I wasn't alive when the Colts were here, but fun to think about how drastically different history could have been with one pick.

 

I know the documentary might be tough for some of you older guys but it really couldn't have come at a better time: of course this past playoffs we beat the Colts and Elway's Broncos on the way to our Super Bowl championship. All demons have been exercised and cast away for Baltimore!

[deeshopper]

I do not know about you guys, but I am perfectly happy with the F*** YOU we sent to Elway thirty years later with the Mile High Miracle!

 

Perhaps, but Elway deserves an FU right back.

[vmax]

Elway couldn't win shit until they got Terrell Davis.

 

I guess if they draft Marino I would not have a 13 year void of no football in my life. For the young posters who don't get where the Baltimore Colts fans are coming from....imagine this scenario:

You've been Ravens fans long enough. You witnessed a couple Super Bowls. You love this team.

You wake up tomorrow and the Mayflower vans moved the franchise to LA during the night.

It will be 13 years before Baltimore gets another NFL team.....they won't be called the Ravens.

[thundercleetz]

Elway couldn't win shit until they got Terrell Davis.

 

I guess if they draft Marino I would not have a 13 year void of no football in my life. For the young posters who don't get where the Baltimore Colts fans are coming from....imagine this scenario:

You've been Ravens fans long enough. You witnessed a couple Super Bowls. You love this team.

You wake up tomorrow and the Mayflower vans moved the franchise to LA during the night.

It will be 13 years before Baltimore gets another NFL team.....they won't be called the Ravens.

 

Believe me, I am not doubting the pain of the older fans at all. I am sure it sucked times infinity. But with what happened, the situation could not have turned out better for Baltimore fans. Colts leaving gives us Camden Yards (a consensus top three ballpark in all of baseball) and we also get the Ravens, who have given us two Super Bowls and are among the best run organizations in football. Things could have ended up terrible for us, say like the Browns. You lose a franchise who ends up being great. Sure you get a new franchise, but ownership and front office personnel is terrible while the guys you let go (Ozzie, Belicheck and company) combine for five Super Bowls over the next fifteen years.

 

So here's my question: would you trade the Ravens, everything they have accomplished, AND Camden Yards for the Colts and the thirteen years of lost football (lets say with Marino as the QB)? No right or wrong answer here, just want to get the perspective from the older fans.

[oldno82]

Well, if we REALLY want to go back in time, I blame what happened to Baltimore with the Colts on John Steadman's written editorials blasting a really good owner, Carroll Rosenbloom, that eventually caused him to sell the team to ass----Irsay. Once Irsay took over, the writing was on the wall that we had a nut case that would move the team eventually. This became especially important after Al Davis sued the NFL and won the right to move the Raiders to LA. The NFL realized it couldn't block the moving of any team though Pete Rozelle was firmly in Baltimore's camp.

 

I miss the old Colts, their colors and history and their alumni.

 

But, having said all that, I will say the Ravens with Bisciotti have turned out to be EVERYTHING we could have wanted as a new team.

[cravnravn]

I still remember the bumper sticker on my Dads car when Silverbullet Bob took control. "Dont Tampa with our Colts"

 

Irsay didnt want Marino or he would of had him, he was a pig headed SOB, who knew weeks before the draft that if he took Elway at #1, he would go play baseball.

 

Elway didnt dislike irsay or Baltimore, it was Sgt Frank Kush he didnt like..

[vmax]

So here's my question: would you trade the Ravens, everything they have accomplished, AND Camden Yards for the Colts and the thirteen years of lost football (lets say with Marino as the QB)? No right or wrong answer here, just want to get the perspective from the older fans.

 

Answering this hurts my head!

OK cleertz...you are allowed one question like this in your lifetime!...I only have a short supply of brain cells left...

 

The stadiums would have happened anyway. Not a Dan Marino fan and Ursay was driving fans away. The league should have never allowed a drunken megalomaniac to own a team. What he did to the Baltimore Colt franchise made it unrecognizable, so, in a very real sense, I had lost "My Colts". I think I would have eventually stopped supporting them with him as an owner. Actually, I'm sure he would have chased me away.

The right question for me out of this is: Would you go 13 years without football if it meant switching ownership from Irsay to Art and then Steve.

Answer: Yes!

[oldno82]

?..

 

Elway didnt dislike irsay or Baltimore, it was Sgt Frank Kush he didnt like..

Exactly as I remember it, too!

[cravnravn]

 

So here's my question: would you trade the Ravens, everything they have accomplished, AND Camden Yards for the Colts and the thirteen years of lost football (lets say with Marino as the QB)? No right or wrong answer here, just want to get the perspective from the older fans.

 

Well, i would have been in my glory, I was a huge Marino fan. Seemed like back in 1980 when we turned the TV on and adjusted our rabbit ears, Univ of Pittsburg was always on the tube, led by Marino.

 

Sure I would of traded Ravens for Colts, we would have been able to keep our history and Colors, thats what gets me the most is seeing that blue horseshoe, elsewhere. And who knows where Marino would of led us, we could be chanting Stairway to 7 as our little brothers is SW Pa are chanting every summer.

 

But all in all, IMO regardless if Elway would have signed with the Colts, it wouldnt have mattered. Ursay didnt want to be in Baltimore, why the owners and Rozelle approved that trade is beyond me. It was apparent from the minute bob took ownership that he wanted out of Baltimore. Who trades the greatest QB ever without consulting that player, if Johnny would have known about the trade he would have retired after SBV.

 

The demise of the Colts goes far deeper than the villain Ursay, you can start with SB III, and dig up why a 17 point favorite loses like they did, and continue right along to Rosenblooms suspicious death in FL, then onto ursay.

[cravnravn]

I just listened and watched the sound bite for tonights show, I swear thats Ernie Accorsi's(Our GM) voice I hear saying that he wanted Marino..

Edited April 23, 2013 by cravnravn

[thundercleetz]

Awesome commentary guys! I love hearing this kind of insight about the "old days" (I know it's probably painful for some but thanks for sharing). I'm pretty excited to watch the documentary tonight! 30 for 30 rarely disappoints.

[cravnravn]

Im having such a brain fart it is killing me.

 

There was a program done for PBS, back in early 80's , I cant remember the writers name, but it was on Rosenbloom, and his death, and SB III, and the Mob..i came away with that program knowing that SB III was fixed..

 

What the hell was that writer/director/producers name. Uggggggggggggggh

[oldcrow]

Im having such a brain fart it is killing me.

 

There was a program done for PBS, back in early 80's , I cant remember the writers name, but it was on Rosenbloom, and his death, and SB III, and the Mob..i came away with that program knowing that SB III was fixed..

 

What the hell was that writer/director/producers name. Uggggggggggggggh

 

 

 

Oliver Stone.

[cravnravn]

No, Im searching

[cravnravn]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120470/

 

Nice article..

 

Its called an Unauthorized History of the NFL

 

Jan 17 1983, there has to be some DVD or tape out there.

[thundercleetz]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1120470/

 

Nice article..

 

Its called an Unauthorized History of the NFL

 

Jan 17 1983, there has to be some DVD or tape out there.

I'll have to checkout that article. Question about Super Bowl III: how were the Colts considered such a favorite against the Jets despite Unitas being injured and not playing? Nowadays I do not care how good the rest of the team is, if your elite QB is not playing odds are instantly changed. Was it different then? Follow up question: why didn't Unitas play in the first three quarters? I know he came in the fourth and instantly led a scoring drive. What was going on there?

[cravnravn]

Because the Jets were in the AFL, and the colts were the big boys of the NFL..

 

Technically, if you look at the record books for 1969, it will list the Colts as NFL Champions as we defeated the Brownies in the Championship game 34-0.

 

Odds makers as well as the NFL never took the AFL seriously.

 

my opinion, if the Colts would have defeated the Jets that day, there probably wouldnt have been a merger between the two leagues, So "fixing" that game showed the two leagues could compete with each other, and has led to the league we know as today.

 

Whats ironic is the browns/Colts line was a pick'em spread, and we blasted them at home, and for the life of me I dont know why it was played in Cleveland, caus we were 13-1 ending the season.

Edited April 23, 2013 by cravnravn

[papasmurfbell]

Elway couldn't win shit until they got Terrell Davis.

 

 

Well, if we REALLY want to go back in time, I blame what happened to Baltimore with the Colts on John Steadman's written editorials blasting a really good owner, Carroll Rosenbloom, that eventually caused him to sell the team to ass----Irsay. Once Irsay took over, the writing was on the wall that we had a nut case that would move the team eventually. This became especially important after Al Davis sued the NFL and won the right to move the Raiders to LA. The NFL realized it couldn't block the moving of any team though Pete Rozelle was firmly in Baltimore's camp.

 

.

Elway was in 2 SB but lost before TD.

 

Steadman also helped run Eddie Murray out of town.

[vmax]

Elway was in 2 SB but lost before TD.

 

Steadman also helped run Eddie Murray out of town.

 

Preston has taken Steadmans place in that role.

[oldno82]

Preston has taken Steadmans place in that role.

+1

[oldno82]

I'll have to checkout that article. Question about Super Bowl III: how were the Colts considered such a favorite against the Jets despite Unitas being injured and not playing? Nowadays I do not care how good the rest of the team is, if your elite QB is not playing odds are instantly changed. Was it different then? Follow up question: why didn't Unitas play in the first three quarters? I know he came in the fourth and instantly led a scoring drive. What was going on there?

The reason Johnny didn't start was because Earl Morral had led them to a 13-1 record and the league championship while Unitas was hurt.

[papasmurfbell]

Maybe the only one Preston ran out is Brian. But I think Brian ran himself out.

[cravnravn]

WELL, all I can say if the "hatred for ursay wound" had healed..IT IS WIDE OPEN AGAIN!!!!

 

FU URSAY---hope you are rotting...

 

[cravnravn]

I need the older ones to enlighten me on how Steadman ran Eddie out of town? He was one of my favs next to Phil Jackman, and Cameron Snyder

[vmax]

It seems to me that all the writers pounded on Eddie....because he was tired of being misquoted and wouldn't talk to them anymore.

 

It doesn't take much to chase an athlete out of town. One mistake and the media gets all over it...they get all judgmental as if their own shit doesn't stink. The athletes are young and many don't have the coping skills to deal with it. It seems better to move out of town than to put up with the same litany of questions everyday.