Flacco Broken Record

[thesteelhurtin]

OK I blast Flacco every chance I get but ints aren't always the QBs fault. Also as said before Manning, Ben, Favreau, and many other very good to great QBs have thrown more then 22 picks in a season it happens.

[Geronimo]

Just because a QB has a giant new deal is the exact reason why most of the responsibility goes on Flacco. You don't get to play QB in the NFL, sign a huge contract and blame anyone else, joe doesn't do it and neither should the groupies. When we won the SB, you groupies said Joe carried us, now that we're 8-8 it's because of everyone else, thats what makes you people groupies, thats why you're a joke , thats why i ride Joe as much as possible, it's not even because of Joe, it's his groupies. You don't want Joe compared to Peyton, Brady, Brees or Rodgers, why not? "oh you shouldn't compare Joe to those guys", Joe makes what those guys make, Joe plays the same position but we're not suppose to compare Joe with them because groupies think it's not fair to Joe. See when i said the int record was the most unbreakable record you groupies latched on like there was no tomorrow, it's like "ah ha" i got these two now. i was giving you groupies a hard time, but i see a groupie saw something that he could actually defend and decided to jump on it. So just for the record the whole Flacco int. unbreakable record thing was a joke, but groupies could not understand that because like i said a light went off when i said it because you found something you could actually defend about Flacco. But what you can't defend is how long it took him this year to realize he was going to have to run some because he didn't have as much time as he was use to. he didn't start running until about game 12 or 13, what took you so long Joe to figure out you're going to have to move around. You can't defend his uncanny ability to yell 'alaska" and audible into the wrong play, the right play was called and you audibled out of it, WOW! you can't defend his piss poor ability to throw the long ball accurately, i'm wondering where he even got the reputation for being a good deep ball thrower, yeah is has a strong arm but that doesn't mean he's a good deep ball thrower, you can't defend him pouting like a baby when Taylor was getting wildcat plays,standing out there with your hands in your pocket and not moving is not the sign of a leader. You can't defend time and time again our defense keeping us in games and Flacco not being able to put up points. When Joe has time, the receivers get separation and we have a good running game, Joe is Great! but i could be a serviceable QB if i had all those things going on. What about when things aren't perfect what kind of Qb is Joe then, he's horrible. he needs Jacoby to run back a return , he needs the defense to keep the team under 17 points and get him good field position. Why didn't Joe carry us this year groupies?answer: because Joe has never carried us, We played great as a team last year and Joe was the only one that benefitted. we were damn lucky to get to 8-8. Now with Joe's undeserved contract, we are really behind the eight ball. Ozzie better have a great off season because now he knows Joe can't carry us. We would have been better off letting Joe walk and drafting a qb last year or this year. If you draft the right QB, you're going to get the QB for cheap the first 5 years and you can put a very good team around him. look at INDY, SEATTLE, CAROLINA, Washington last year,MIAMI,SAN FRAN, CINCY, PHILLY, most of these teams are in the playoffs and all have QB's on there first contract, not taking up a bunch of cap space, they put a very good team around there young QB and have a chance to be good for the next few years. We did the same thing with Joe, we should have let him walk and tried again because with Joe taking up so much cap space, he has shown us he not good enough to be the man. Joe is not Brady Brees Peyton or Rodgers even you groupies can admit that, and there teams made the playoffs with them having a huge contracts, we can't because we have Joe.

[dc.]

Geronimo,

 

Thanks for actually responding.

 

Here's my only bone of contention: you call everyone a groupie. You even say it right there "you guys." Anyone who has a single disagreement with your analysis is deemed a groupie. Why isn't it possible to agree in part but disagree in part?

 

Meanwhile, I told you what my motive was - my motive was stupid arguing. You want to argue that Joe should be compared to Peyton and Brady? Damn right he should. And he doesn't match up to them. And we are going to struggle at times because of that. And so long as he is making that much money and calling himself "the best in the league" - and so long as we want to win at a level like Brady and Manning - then he and his mistakes are fair game. And his mistakes and his bad reads and his bad audibles are all fair game.

 

But SAY THAT - instead of just making a "joke" to rile feathers. I wasn't defending Joe; I was going after your hyperbole and inability to get around to the kind of post above (which is the kind we should be reading and the kind I am happy to discuss).

[dc.]

To the merits of your earlier arguments, two thoughts:

 

First, again, I actually agree pretty much entirely. I especially agree that he should be compared to the best of the best and that we should hold him to that standard.

 

I think people defend Joe (and his contract) in large part because of the history this team. It's not right per se, but it's probably true. Given the history of lackluster and horrible QBs that this team dealt with for its for 10+ years, I think you can bet that people are going wild over even a hint of "good." And they are scared to death to lose that "good." You are 100% right that other teams have and will make it with average QBs. But we never seemed to even get to average. I think people are worried that without Joe, the only other option is Kyle Boller or Chris Redman or Trent Dilfer. Is this a valid fear? Maybe. But it should not preclude Joe from criticism -- and I personally don't think it does. But I do think that is why some show him deference.

 

Second, on a personal note - and getting to the whole "you guys" assertions again - I personally have only really excused (in part) Joe because of the offensive line. I think the line was the primary problem facing our offense all season. It's also why I have been a rather staunch defender of Ray Rice while others have said he's done. No one was able to run. That makes it pretty clear to me it's not a RB problem. So I blame the OL. But please don't lump me into some group that says that "it's the OL, the RB, the receivers." No. They all failed to degrees. Joe failed seriously. I put primary blame on the OL. And we can agree to disagree, but I would say that one thing Peyton and Brady have always had on their side is strong line play.

[cravnravn]

Just because a QB has a giant new deal is the exact reason why most of the responsibility goes on Flacco. You don't get to play QB in the NFL, sign a huge contract and blame anyone else, joe doesn't do it and neither should the groupies. When we won the SB, you groupies said Joe carried us, now that we're 8-8 it's because of everyone else, thats what makes you people groupies, thats why you're a joke , thats why i ride Joe as much as possible, it's not even because of Joe, it's his groupies. You don't want Joe compared to Peyton, Brady, Brees or Rodgers, why not? "oh you shouldn't compare Joe to those guys", Joe makes what those guys make, Joe plays the same position but we're not suppose to compare Joe with them because groupies think it's not fair to Joe. See when i said the int record was the most unbreakable record you groupies latched on like there was no tomorrow, it's like "ah ha" i got these two now. i was giving you groupies a hard time, but i see a groupie saw something that he could actually defend and decided to jump on it. So just for the record the whole Flacco int. unbreakable record thing was a joke, but groupies could not understand that because like i said a light went off when i said it because you found something you could actually defend about Flacco. But what you can't defend is how long it took him this year to realize he was going to have to run some because he didn't have as much time as he was use to. he didn't start running until about game 12 or 13, what took you so long Joe to figure out you're going to have to move around. You can't defend his uncanny ability to yell 'alaska" and audible into the wrong play, the right play was called and you audibled out of it, WOW! you can't defend his piss poor ability to throw the long ball accurately, i'm wondering where he even got the reputation for being a good deep ball thrower, yeah is has a strong arm but that doesn't mean he's a good deep ball thrower, you can't defend him pouting like a baby when Taylor was getting wildcat plays,standing out there with your hands in your pocket and not moving is not the sign of a leader. You can't defend time and time again our defense keeping us in games and Flacco not being able to put up points. When Joe has time, the receivers get separation and we have a good running game, Joe is Great! but i could be a serviceable QB if i had all those things going on. What about when things aren't perfect what kind of Qb is Joe then, he's horrible. he needs Jacoby to run back a return , he needs the defense to keep the team under 17 points and get him good field position. Why didn't Joe carry us this year groupies?answer: because Joe has never carried us, We played great as a team last year and Joe was the only one that benefitted. we were damn lucky to get to 8-8. Now with Joe's undeserved contract, we are really behind the eight ball. Ozzie better have a great off season because now he knows Joe can't carry us. We would have been better off letting Joe walk and drafting a qb last year or this year. If you draft the right QB, you're going to get the QB for cheap the first 5 years and you can put a very good team around him. look at INDY, SEATTLE, CAROLINA, Washington last year,MIAMI,SAN FRAN, CINCY, PHILLY, most of these teams are in the playoffs and all have QB's on there first contract, not taking up a bunch of cap space, they put a very good team around there young QB and have a chance to be good for the next few years. We did the same thing with Joe, we should have let him walk and tried again because with Joe taking up so much cap space, he has shown us he not good enough to be the man. Joe is not Brady Brees Peyton or Rodgers even you groupies can admit that, and there teams made the playoffs with them having a huge contracts, we can't because we have Joe.

 

I made it contract and not blaming it on any one, yet Bree's goes 4-12 and it's not his fault...comical

[cravnravn]

Or Matt Ryan who btw makes more then joe goes what 2-14 yet it's not his fault, and Matty melt has a hell of a lot better horses to work with then joe,

 

 

Geranamax you too much

[dc.]

Crav, I think Brees' 39-12 TD to INT ratio explains something. And Ryan's 26-17 also seems to answer your question.

[Geronimo]

Matt ryan 26 td's 17 int's 4515 yds 89.9 rating

Joe flacco 19 td's 22 int's 3912 yds 73.6 rating This tells me the atlanta falcons defense is much worse than the ravens, if there qb can be that much more productive than Joe and still are

only 4-12

[cravnravn]

Crav, I think Brees' 39-12 TD to INT ratio explains something. And Ryan's 26-17 also seems to answer your question.

 

Yet Marty melt can go 2-14 but because he had 26 tds vs 17 picks, that's ok?

[Geronimo]

the year brees went 4-12 he had 43 Td's 19 int's 5177 yds and a rating of 96.3 He had one of the worse defense ever last year. So it's not his fault, he had one of the worse defense ever.

Next question

[Geronimo]

Matt ryan didn't go 2-14 the atlanta falcons went 2-14, what matt ryan did go was 26 td's 17 ints 4515 yds and 89.9 rating, thats what matt ryan went. next question

[cravnravn]

Matt ryan 26 td's 17 int's 4515 yds 89.9 rating

Joe flacco 19 td's 22 int's 3912 yds 73.6 rating This tells me the atlanta falcons defense is much worse than the ravens, if there qb can be that much more productive than Joe and still are

only 4-12

Philly has a much worse d then Marty melt has , yet they are hosting a playoff game..Philly also doesn't have white, gizmo and Julio to throw to, neither does Joe. Yet some how those 2 qbs had a better record then matty

[cravnravn]

Matt ryan didn't go 2-14 the atlanta falcons went 2-14, what matt ryan did go was 26 td's 17 ints 4515 yds and 89.9 rating, thats what matt ryan went. next question

Lol at the excuse maker , make excuses for breed make excuses for Marty melt...btw both and make more then joe

[Geronimo]

Ok Craven when your numbers , are that much better than Joe's yet your team has a much worse record , what is the reason, all i'm saying is we have much better defense than those teams but thats an excuse to you, so whats the reason we're 8-8 with Flacco's horrid numbers and those two(Bress last year and matt ryan this year) are 2-14 and 4-12, you tell me

[Geronimo]

of all the big money guys Joe had the worse numbers, but didn't have the worse record why? could it be Tucker Jacoby/special teams and our defense are pretty good, or is it those very very average ass numbers that Joe puts up.

[cravnravn]

In 6 years Joe has put up eye popping numbers when? Yet he has 3 trips to the afccg ,1 sb mvp.not one losing season.

 

Yet it's not good enough to you

[Geronimo]

In 6 years Joe has put up eye popping numbers when? Yet he has 3 trips to the afccg ,1 sb mvp.not one losing season.

 

Yet it's not good enough to you

so how can Joe put up the numbers he puts up and be on such a successful team , especially in this day and time with all of the passing thats going on?

[Geronimo]

See Craven you're not answering the question.

[tsylvester]

I would like to see, and would not be surprised to see in the next few years, them implementing a franchise player salary where only a certain % of said player's contract counts towards the cap. This would help off set the huge salaries of these, mostly, quarterbacks and be able to retain or sign more free agents, spread the cap dollars around more.

 

The way it is now, under the new CBA, the cap is not likely to grow much each year as it has in the past.

[thesteelhurtin]

I would like to see, and would not be surprised to see in the next few years, them implementing a franchise player salary where only a certain % of said player's contract counts towards the cap. This would help off set the huge salaries of these, mostly, quarterbacks and be able to retain or sign more free agents, spread the cap dollars around more.

 

The way it is now, under the new CBA, the cap is not likely to grow much each year as it has in the past.

I like that idea. Change the meaning of the franchise tag.

[oldno82]

Yeah but the current CBA was a 10 year deal.

[RavenMad]

Ok Craven when your numbers , are that much better than Joe's yet your team has a much worse record , what is the reason, all i'm saying is we have much better defense than those teams but thats an excuse to you, so whats the reason we're 8-8 with Flacco's horrid numbers and those two(Bress last year and matt ryan this year) are 2-14 and 4-12, you tell me

 

The reason is simple. They spent all their money on nice shiny weapons for their QBs to throw to and decent O-Linemen to protect their asset. There was no money and/or draft picks left to spend on their D and that is why their D's suck and they went 2-14/4-12 but still put up numbers. We spent last offseason retooling the D while the O got weaker and now we will attempt to retool the O.

 

Be thankful we have a front office that does a great job at the balancing act in this age of parity. There are only a handful of teams that are good at this and they almost always make the playoffs or get close.

[rastaman831226]

Ah, and now the change in argument. No one argued he doesn't own or that he isn't responsible.

 

Spen (and now I) only argued that it is exaggeration to call it the team's most unbreakable record. That line turns a fair, deserved and reasonable criticism of Flacco into a line of total bull. He can own that stat- that awful, embarrassing, pathetic stat - and it says plenty without you all making up so one other level of hate.

Cut the crap Brain. You, in your words, " ...... took the bait. " and got properly slammed. Man up and own it. The point of this whole exercise was to display how far Flacco Groupies will go to deny the obvious. The obvious being Joe Flacco is a mid to lower level NFL QB with a huge Franchise QB contract that for the length of the contract will kill this organization's hope of ever returning the Lombardi Trophy to this city. This girlish Flacco hero worship is embarrassing and anti Raven.

[dc.]

Go re-read. The discussion was that it's stupid to call the record the most unbreakable. That's all we've been talking about. YOU are the one who tried to turn it.

 

Feel free to read my other posts too, by the way.

[dc.]

Also, nice work in establishing another new buzzword, "anti Raven."

 

Here's where you become an ass: to me and most here, the only thing anti Raven is hating the Ravens and/or their players without cause. And we can talk and disagree about whats best for the team without atracking. To you, anyone who disagrees with you is anti Raven.