Good Read....Colts/Ravens

[Oldschool739]

30 years on, Baltimore better without Colts

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens

 

Under the cover of darkness

 

AP Photo/Bill SmithRumors swirled about the Colts moving in early 1984. Here, then-owner Robert Irsay had a heated exchange with reporters, denying a rumor he'd made a deal to move the team to Phoenix.

It had been rumored for weeks in March 1984 that Irsay was going to move the Colts. No one believed him. Many thought Irsay's erratic behavior and odd demands would keep the Colts in Baltimore.

 

That perception changed when The Baltimore Evening Sun reporter Ken Murray received a call at 7 p.m. from a man who saw a Mayflower van heading toward the Colts' complex. Murray called Colts coach Frank Kush, who acknowledged the team was in the process of moving.

 

It's just time to put this date in perspective. Three decades later, Baltimore is better off without the Colts. This is no longer blasphemy to say. This is simply reality.

 

[Robjr83]

Ok older Colts/Ravens fans....... I wasn't born when all the old Irsay stuff happened. Is what Irsay did any different than what Modell did? Both wanted new stadiums, both promised to not move their team, both did anyway.

[Spen]

Ok older Colts/Ravens fans....... I wasn't born when all the old Irsay stuff happened. Is what Irsay did any different than what Modell did? Both wanted new stadiums, both promised to not move their team, both did anyway.

 

Modell didnt run the team into the ground first. Other than that the two moves have far more in common than they have differently.

[ravinmaniac52]

Ok older Colts/Ravens fans....... I wasn't born when all the old Irsay stuff happened. Is what Irsay did any different than what Modell did? Both wanted new stadiums, both promised to not move their team, both did anyway.

Very big!

 

Bob was a drunken ass hole and proved each time the cameras were around. Didn't want to work with the city or state. Didn't care about winning just wanted money. Didn't care about fans at all.

 

Art cared about fans, about the city of Cleveland, they named parks, buildings, clinics and parts of hospital for him for the money he put back into the city of Cleveland. Art wanted to work with the city, he even ask for help. They built a baseball stadium when he begged for help for one of the worse baseball teams ever. He was told he was next but they built a arena right in front of him for the worse NBA team. Art went to other to get help to keep the Browns in Cleveland but it wasn't enough. They built the rock n roll HOF before helping the man that gave back to the city of Cleveland, for a team that we seen and still know that was loved just as much as we loved the Colts.

 

Art would help you put sand bags up, Bob would throw a empty bottle at you and say fuck you drown.

[Oldschool739]

Ok older Colts/Ravens fans....... I wasn't born when all the old Irsay stuff happened. Is what Irsay did any different than what Modell did? Both wanted new stadiums, both promised to not move their team, both did anyway.

Well it should be interesting to know some about the history of the team for everyone....And no it was not the same thing, because Irsay had lost the fans here with his irrational handling of the team and wanted a new stadium to fix a problem that he was causing....That would not have changed anything.....Art had a reasonable reason and a stable track record of handling the Browns and was all but ignored.....We got ripped off for our expansion team and had no other choice but to give Tagliaboob a taste of his own medicine, so we brought the Browns here but again unlike Irsay, we left them their name, colors and history, Irsay stole ours....Big difference IMO.....

But I will say for me, I am a much bigger fan of the Ravens than I was the Colts, and like the article said; we are better off now than then....

[thundercleetz]

Interesting read from the Indy perspective:

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/03/28/colts-move-hells-angels-hoosier-dome-color-scheme-empty-semis/7004881/

 

Here's a good read written by LA comedian, Ravens fan and Baltimore native Ryan Sickler:

 

http://www.esquire.com/_mobile/blogs/news/when-a-sports-team-moves?src=spr_TWITTER&spr_id=1456_50619351

[papasmurfbell]

Ok older Colts/Ravens fans....... I wasn't born when all the old Irsay stuff happened. Is what Irsay did any different than what Modell did? Both wanted new stadiums, both promised to not move their team, both did anyway.

Modell ran Cle Municipal Stadium. It cost him a lot to run. The Indians were 81 dates for him. They left. He was in huge debt running the team. Finally the day of reconning was coming. It is all but fact that Tags and the gov of Ohio told Modell to move because behind the scenes things were put into motion that the NFL and the state would get a new stadium once the emergency was there. There is a huge difference between the 2 situations.

[oldno82]

I was there when the Colts were hot here. Even before they got good in the late '50s they had a rabid following. It was a sickening feeling watching what Irsay was doing to the team in his last 6 years here and it became very painful when he left.

 

I'll never forget the fact we didn't get an expansion team and Jacksonville did. Didn't make any sense then or now.

 

I think though that there wasn't anything Rozelle, the state, or the city could have done to actually stop a move. Al Davis had brought a suit against the NFL when they wouldn't let him move and he won it.

 

Now, no franchise really 'safe' anymore in the NFL.

[cravnravn]

Fuck Silverbulletbob

[cravnravn]

greatest memories I have, was my dad taking me out to training camp in Westminster, in the 60's and 70's and one year there was camp at Goucher College, I duplicated that feat with my two Sons..

 

idiot fuk irsay ruined my adulthood

[thundercleetz]

Oldno82, the fact we didn't get the expansion team in '95 was an enormous blessing. Peter Angelos would have been the owner. Luckily Angelos and Jack Kent Cooke got into an enormous pissing contest and I'm positive JKC was the reason Baltimore didn't get a team. Absolute blessing. One other thing to consider: if the Colts don't leave there is not a Camden Yards. In the end everything worked out well for everyone.

 

I think what hurts the most is the history and colors moving to Indy. If the team moved but the history stayed here and could have been picked up by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore, I don't think there would be nearly the amount of hard feeling there are today. Especially after two Super Bowls.

[oldno82]

Oldno82, the fact we didn't get the expansion team in '95 was an enormous blessing. Peter Angelos would have been the owner. Luckily Angelos and Jack Kent Cooke got into an enormous pissing contest and I'm positive JKC was the reason Baltimore didn't get a team. Absolute blessing. One other thing to consider: if the Colts don't leave there is not a Camden Yards. In the end everything worked out well for everyone.

 

I think what hurts the most is the history and colors moving to Indy. If the team moved but the history stayed here and could have been picked up by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore, I don't think there would be nearly the amount of hard feeling there are today. Especially after two Super Bowls.

Good points. If they had left the name, colors, and history here, I would not have felt so gut-shot.

[RavenousBG]

Just my two cents, I was a youngster then. I've been a Ravens fan longer than I was a Colts fan now. And the Ravens earned it from me. They are my favorite team of any team in any sport. They reflect Baltimore. When we got them, the lil boy in me wanted them to be the colts but it worked out. The uniforms are better. The stadium is better. The city is better. The atmosphere is better. The colt history is still ours. Johnny U, Art, and the rest of the old school guys said so. And now we have new legends and personalities to add to that rich history. I love the Ravens and I love Baltimore!

[Oldschool739]

Just my two cents, I was a youngster then. I've been a Ravens fan longer than I was a Colts fan now. And the Ravens earned it from me. They are my favorite team of any team in any sport. They reflect Baltimore. When we got them, the lil boy in me wanted them to be the colts but it worked out. The uniforms are better. The stadium is better. The city is better. The atmosphere is better. The colt history is still ours. Johnny U, Art, and the rest of the old school guys said so. And now we have new legends and personalities to add to that rich history. I love the Ravens and I love Baltimore!

I remember it well......Sitting there stunned and thinking, how can you just take an NFL team and run off in the night, legally.....I still have never figured out or heard any explanation why the majority of owners agreed to this move....That had to happen for it to be approved by the league....What did it benefit them at the time ????.....I can only guess that they thought the market was better there and the new stadium would be a bigger draw and tv ratings and such.....But what about the controversy it caused, and the disdain of fans and the lack of character stain on the league for approving a gangster move like that on a proven city.....Still baffled today, but I love my Ravens and wouldn't trade back now....Much respect and honor to the old hero's , welcome to the new world.....It's Purple Powered Now....

[Spen]

From every factual account I have ever read the two moves and owners had a lot in common. A lot of fans want to think Irsay was evil and Art was a good man screwed by Cleveland. The book "Glory For Sale" by Sun reporter Jon Morgan was the best account I ever read. They both wanted new stadiums and beneficial lease deals so they both moved. Modell told Cleveland he was OK with waiting for a new stadium. Then a series of deals he made were not as lucrative as he thought and a lot of his other businesses outside football were hurting so suddenly he needed cash.

 

The whole coordinated move with Art and Lerner was fishy. Now beyond the move Art was an important owner and usually thought of as a good guy so the similarities with Irsay end there.

 

Overall I am glad the Colts moved and as soon as they played one game in Indy I never wanted the name or colors back. Good riddance.

 

If not the Browns some team would have moved here. When Tags and JKC kept us from getting the expansion they left an offer sit that was too good for many teams to pass up.

[RavenousBG]

I remember it well......Sitting there stunned and thinking, how can you just take an NFL team and run off in the night, legally.....I still have never figured out or heard any explanation why the majority of owners agreed to this move....That had to happen for it to be approved by the league....What did it benefit them at the time ????.....I can only guess that they thought the market was better there and the new stadium would be a bigger draw and tv ratings and such.....But what about the controversy it caused, and the disdain of fans and the lack of character stain on the league for approving a gangster move like that on a proven city.....Still baffled today, but I love my Ravens and wouldn't trade back now....Much respect and honor to the old hero's , welcome to the new world.....It's Purple Powered Now....

I didn't get it either. We were hijacked. And they didn't have the decency to leave the colors and name. I really believed the league hated us by about 1990. Then there was the Washidelphia statement by Tags when we didn't get the Jags. (Actually not sure if Tags really said it or just implied it). But the Ravens have fixed it for me and then some. Stevie B will never take this team out of Bmore. Purple powered indeed my friend!

[RavenousBG]

From every factual account I have ever read the two moves and owners had a lot in common. A lot of fans want to think Irsay was evil and Art was a good man screwed by Cleveland. The book "Glory For Sale" by Sun reporter Jon Morgan was the best account I ever read. They both wanted new stadiums and beneficial lease deals so they both moved. Modell told Cleveland he was OK with waiting for a new stadium. Then a series of deals he made were not as lucrative as he thought and a lot of his other businesses outside football were hurting so suddenly he needed cash.

 

The whole coordinated move with Art and Lerner was fishy. Now beyond the move Art was an important owner and usually thought of as a good guy so the similarities with Irsay end there.

 

Overall I am glad the Colts moved and as soon as they played one game in Indy I never wanted the name or colors back. Good riddance.

 

If not the Browns some team would have moved here. When Tags and JKC kept us from getting the expansion they left an offer sit that was too good for many teams to pass up.

true that we were probably eventually going to get a new team but Modell didn't hijack the Browns and bring them to Bmore. Cleveland had shots and built other things first. I understand that the book you read may have shone light on similarities but 95 % of what you read concerning the two moves tell you that irsay was unstable and tried to strong arm the city and state into his desires. Memorial wasn't falling apart and the city was beginning to lay plans to refurbish the Inner Harbor but it wasn't the same deal as Cleveland. The O's were in the same stadium so it's not like the city treated them better. Modell tried to wait his turn and he just couldn't. And he and the league did right by Cleveland and left colors and history to start anew in Baltimore. Did Irsay even consider that? I doubt it. I've seen his drunken rants and heard him slur 'I said I wouldn't move the G-- DAMNED Team!' Only he did that very thing in the cover of night like a thief. No these are different stories.

[cravnravn]

Just my two cents, I was a youngster then. I've been a Ravens fan longer than I was a Colts fan now. And the Ravens earned it from me. They are my favorite team of any team in any sport. They reflect Baltimore. When we got them, the lil boy in me wanted them to be the colts but it worked out. The uniforms are better. The stadium is better. The city is better. The atmosphere is better. The colt history is still ours. Johnny U, Art, and the rest of the old school guys said so. And now we have new legends and personalities to add to that rich history. I love the Ravens and I love Baltimore!

The Colts reflected Baltimore people, totally blue collar from Unitas to Mike Curtis to Arte you will never meet more guys that bring their lunch pails to work do their jobs hit the time card and go home.

 

The Blue Horseshoe Is the best looking uniform in the NFL to this day. Don't know if we would of had a new stadium or not my thinking is we would. Memorial would have been going on 60 today, I never had a problem with Memorial, I loved that old place, I loved it was set in a neighborhood, didn't mind the 2pm starts either.

The new place is very industrial, and honestly it was a waste of money without a retractable roof on it. Indys stadium is first class that roof is awesome, if your going to build something it might as well make you money 12 months a year.

 

I have an honest to goodness man cave now and even the Mrs commented on how much more Colts stuff I have autographed then Ravens. That's not saying I don't love the Ravens my method to autograph hunting is to only display players that IMO, will be hall of famers

[Oldschool739]

The Colts reflected Baltimore people, totally blue collar from Unitas to Mike Curtis to Arte you will never meet more guys that bring their lunch pails to work do their jobs hit the time card and go home.

 

The Blue Horseshoe Is the best looking uniform in the NFL to this day. Don't know if we would of had a new stadium or not my thinking is we would. Memorial would have been going on 60 today, I never had a problem with Memorial, I loved that old place, I loved it was set in a neighborhood, didn't mind the 2pm starts either.

The new place is very industrial, and honestly it was a waste of money without a retractable roof on it. Indys stadium is first class that roof is awesome, if your going to build something it might as well make you money 12 months a year.

 

I have an honest to goodness man cave now and even the Mrs commented on how much more Colts stuff I have autographed then Ravens. That's not saying I don't love the Ravens my method to autograph hunting is to only display players that IMO, will be hall of famers

I like the Colts uni's but not as good as the Ravens......When I see the blue shoe I still automatically identify them with us, but when I see the purple , I know they are us......Crav, I've got good news and bad news for you buddy.....The bad news is, the Colts are long gone....The good news is, the Ravens are better and they are ours....Yee Haw, Go Ravens !!!!

[cravnravn]

Nothing wrong with liking two teams

[RavenousBG]

Sorry Cravn, I don't agree about the Uni's and I somewhat understand where you're coming from with everything else. I lived on E 32nd St and the lights from Old Memorial shined in my room during night games. I miss it but I associate it with my childhood. I hated that they tore Memorial down. I came home from Ft Campbell and it was gone. But I've been a ravens fan from 1998 and was hardcore by 1999. I love the colors and seeing the state flag incorporated in it. It's been 16 years. So I identify with the Ravens. History is being made now to add to Colts history. But the old Horseshoe was great for it's time. It's the Ravens time now.

[papasmurfbell]

Oldno82, the fact we didn't get the expansion team in '95 was an enormous blessing. Peter Angelos would have been the owner. Luckily Angelos and Jack Kent Cooke got into an enormous pissing contest and I'm positive JKC was the reason Baltimore didn't get a team. Absolute blessing. One other thing to consider: if the Colts don't leave there is not a Camden Yards. In the end everything worked out well for everyone.

 

I think what hurts the most is the history and colors moving to Indy. If the team moved but the history stayed here and could have been picked up by the Browns when they moved to Baltimore, I don't think there would be nearly the amount of hard feeling there are today. Especially after two Super Bowls.

It would have been the Glazers had bmore won the expansion. They bought the Bucs soon after.

[thundercleetz]

Don't know if we would of had a new stadium or not my thinking is we would. Memorial would have been going on 60 today, I never had a problem with Memorial, I loved that old place, I loved it was set in a neighborhood, didn't mind the 2pm starts either.

The new place is very industrial, and honestly it was a waste of money without a retractable roof on it. Indys stadium is first class that roof is awesome, if your going to build something it might as well make you money 12 months a year.

Crav we'd have both the Colts and the O's playing in an ugly "Baltodome" that we'd be struggling to replace today (the some was the top option and was the style at the time). No Camden Yards. Indianapolis has already replaced their ugly dome that they used to lure the Colts. Nearly all of the domes from the 70s/80s have been replaced or are miserably outdated. In that case, especially with how stretched out MD's budget is today, one of the Colts or Orioles would have probably left anyways.

 

Yes the Colts stadium is gorgeous. My wife is from Indy and her dad goes to every game (he is more of a Bears fan than Colts though, there are still lots of Bears fans there from pre-1983). And it is great for the city of Indy that they can use the stadium for other college football and basketball events. However, that stadium costs $789M in 2014 money. M&T is less than half that coming in at $318M ($220M in 1996). Additionally the technology for retractable roofs today is leaps and bounds above where it was in 1996. With MD building two stadiums in that year, spending over $500M on a stadium with now outdated technology that we'd have to replace would not have been smart. Creating a practical basic structure that you can build up later was the way to go.

 

The Ravens lease comes up in 2023. You can bet your bottom dollar there are going to be some stuff negotiations to renovate M&T into a first class facility again. I wouldn't be surprised to see a roof mentioned, especially if technology in architecture continues to advance at the current rate. Not to mention if the Skins move to DC/VA, MD will have to pony up to the Ravens. See the proposed roof plans for Miami and St. Louis. It is possible.

 

I love the Ravens colors. I also love the classicness of the Colts uniforms. Two completely different styles. The Colts are timeless the Ravens are badass. You put on a Ravens uniforms and you are instantly a badass. I like to think we've become the east coast version of the Raiders in the 70s/80s. In my perfect world the Ravens have their current colors but have the Colts history in Baltimore as part of the franchise.

[cravnravn]

Not one penny was from mds budget to build the ATM, it was all raised through the lottery. They should of went the extra step, let's not forget it's located a stone's throw from the water..water + concrete + steel = replacement within 15 years, check the ATM already has had repairs done to it

[papasmurfbell]

The lottery money goes into the general fund so it is a 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. All stadiums make upgrades and small renovations after about 10-15 yrs.