Sceptical/Not Comfortable

[vmax]

Hey....it would be OK if Cousins can lock down the right side, Oher moves to left and the Ravens get a 1st or early 2nd round pick for Gaither....but I'm not sold on Cousins...

 

Cousins helped the Ravens record a franchise-record 548 total yards against the Detroit Lions, then protected Joe Flacco when the Ravens quarterback threw for four touchdowns against the Bears.

 

The blemish on Cousins' 2009 record was a costly unsportsmanlike penalty in Pittsburgh and then surrendering back-to-back sacks by Pro Bowl linebacker Lamaar Woodley as the Ravens made a final-minute push. But Woodley has done that to a lot of tackles, let alone players starting their third career game.

 

"I thought last year he played extremely well against Chicago and Detroit," Cameron said. "He was dominant. He got his opportunity and made the most of it."

 

Cameron said he was Cousins' biggest critic during the 2008 season. Cousins had a great deal of potential with his 6-foot-4, 314-pound frame, but he was in a spread offense in college and was a bit overwhelmed in the NFL at first.

 

Now Cameron says Cousins is one of Baltimore's most improved offensive players over the past two seasons.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/04/Cousins_a_Starter_in_Waiting.aspx

 

I say it would be "OK" but not "great" because I think Gaither can become a dominant player and that's nothing to give up on so lightly.

 

"Maybe the best move, ultimately, would be to turn a fifth-round supplemental pick into a high second-round pick, have him as a two-year starter at basically the veteran minimum [salary] and move on in the organization and address other needs,” La Canfora said.

 

On the other hand, Gaither has proven to be a top-end left tackle in the NFL when healthy, something he struggled with last season when he sat out five games with neck and foot injuries.

 

The 6-foot-9, 340-pound behemoth has size and athleticism that’s tough to find. According to ESPN contributor K.C. Joyner, Gaither has allowed just seven sacks in 27 career starts, demonstrating his elite pass-protection skills.

 

He’s not bad against the run either. Joyner says Gaither was at the point of attack on 300 running plays over the past two years and won his block 255 times (80 percent). He won the battle 89 percent of the time in 2009. About one in 10 offensive linemen crack the 90 percent mark.

http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/?p=4775

[dc.]

Cousins was an absolute joke last year... it wasn't just the unsportsmanlike... he looked un-athletic-like. I tend not to rip players, but if I had to choose a few to really give a verbal beating to (for their play alone), Cousins would be high on my list of Ravens.

 

I don't know too much about him... hell, I hardly know age or experience... I just know he looked BEYOND lost out there. And in terms of pure physical ability, there aren't many that can compete with Gaither. But we are also talking about a young kid who was pretty much kicked off his college team for being unable to keep his grades and academic performance up. People mature, but that should tell us something about his starting point for work ethic, commitment. Suffice to say he was not (is not?) a Ray Lewis or (insert several dozen players from any sport) who spend all off-season prepping for those 16 games...

[papasmurfbell]

Cousins has issues. If he can't show he can play then he needs to be cut in camp. They do need to draft a RT.

[thundercleetz]

Chill out guys, Gaither is not going anywhere this season.

[cravnravn]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/03/gaither_needs_work_to_be_better_than_average.html

 

Hows come nobody posted this one??? Thats right, Preston is a Dickhead, hes graduated from Dick, Hes now a full fledged..

 

Gaither is a FUCKING BEAST!!!! Losing him would be like losing JO in 96..The Ravens are playing with fire not getting him locked up, long and NOW..

[vmax]

With Cousins I kept thinking "..a little better than Kip Vickers".

 

I think the O line as it stands now is the best chance for the Ravens to have a dominant O line. I like having Gaither and Oher anchoring the ends. I like the overall youth. They can't keep changing it every year.

 

On the other hand it has a weakness or they wouldn't have to keep TE's and RB's in to pass protect on so many plays. Sometimes that is necessary because of the blitzing, but at some point, the line has to be able to handle the bulk of the protection schemes...5 on 5...so Cam can flood the field with receivers.

 

They definately can road grade...that's not a weakness.

[SpearSrai]

Gaither is a FUCKING BEAST!!!! Losing him would be like losing JO in 96..The Ravens are playing with fire not getting him locked up, long and NOW..

 

You may be overstating Gaither's ability a bit...

[colincac]

I knew Gaither was good but those advanced Lineman metrics really just show it even more. We need to get this guy locked up long-term now. We will have the best Tackle tandem in the league for YEARS if we do.

[cravnravn]

You may be overstating Gaither's ability a bit...

 

How??? we had th #4 rush in the league and Joe threw for more yards than the Vinny days..So theres not a problem with the line, agree? So dont fuck it up.

[SpearSrai]

You may be overstating Gaither's ability a bit...

 

How??? we had th #4 rush in the league and Joe threw for more yards than the Vinny days..So theres not a problem with the line, agree? So dont fuck it up.

 

Yeah, that part is great. (Granted, given the run-blockers on our line, we would have had success on the ground regardless)

 

All I'm saying is that the only thing Gaither has in common with Ogden is his size and position.

[dc.]

I think Gaither and Oher need to switch sides... but keep 'em both.

[ForceEight]

My problem with trading Gaither is the value. Sure, he might never be better than he is (assumed, but not necessarily true). Sure, he may continue to be soft and injured for the rest of his career. But how can you envision that we'll get a player nearly to his abilities with a first round pick? Let alone a second rounder?

 

No one should be considering him a fifth round conditional pick anymore. That was his value when we acquired him. That is not his value anymore. I don't think we have his value correctly established.

[papasmurfbell]

Gaither is lazy. He will get a big contract. Oher will get a moster contract. You will only be able to afford oen of them. Also I don't think Gaither can play RT. So get the value while you can. Much like the McNabb trade.

[colincac]

Gaither is lazy. He will get a big contract. Oher will get a moster contract. You will only be able to afford oen of them. Also I don't think Gaither can play RT. So get the value while you can. Much like the McNabb trade.

How can you honestly say that a guy who has proven to be at least a top 15 LT can't play RT? One of the dumbest things I've read on this board....

[papasmurfbell]

It isn't that easy to just jump side to side. Also a RT is more of a mauler. Gaither is not that. What Oher did last yr is unheard of. I do not think Gaither can do it. I think he is to soft to play on that side.

[RavensFanNC]

Also I don't think Gaither can play RT.

 

I second this motion.

 

I'm down with a second rounder for Gaither. We can't keep them both in the long term, so get the value while you can. Would you rather have Oher or Gaither?

[yagersports]

Gaither isn't a Mauler???? Does anyone here actually watch a Ravens game, the guy is ridiculous against the run. He's a killer. Sometimes I think people just write stuff on here just to write stuff. Saying Gaither isn't a Mauler is just plain silly. That's the one thing Gaither truely is. He turned out to be a good pass blocker as well because he worked hard.

[papasmurfbell]

Gaither is a huge finesse guy.

[yagersports]

Gaither is a huge finesse guy.

 

Good defense....it must be right. I'm sure there are loads of 6-9 340 finesse guys out there.

 

I'm sure his finesse play allowed him to pave through lineman on his way to blocking for our heavy run oriented approach in Flacco's rookie year??? The guy absolutely obiliterated guys off the line of scrimmage on multiple plays all year long. That's exactly how everyone fell in love with the guy. He was a road grader with attitude that could also pass block.

 

This pass season he worked very hard and succeeded I might add and developing his pass blocking skills. The guy improved tremendously.

 

Truth is....now Gaither is a little of both because he has worked hard at becoming a complete lineman. However he was never a "finesse" guy as you put it. He started as a power guy coming out of college and has worked hard to improve his skills.

 

If Gaither is a "finesse" guy that Edwin Mulitalo is the spokesman for Jenny Craig. lol

[yagersports]

Here's some more data, because I do like to defend my point, and not just say I'm right to get my post count up.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=G&playerid=4279

 

I looked at most higher rated offensive tackles, I obviously don't have time to look at the all, they all post mostly green in the pass dept. The great pass blockers or finesse guys, post severl 2+ games a season. Gaither didn't have one. Also every highly rated offensive lineman that I looked at had bad games with the fun, that's the nature of run blocking for those that have never played the game but want to speculate on how lineman rank. Gaither posted high rankings (very high) four times. This includes a 5.8 ranking in the NE playoff game. The poor rankings in three weeks were a result of our midseason passing obsession that got us into trouble.

 

The numbers indicate Gaither is a consistent pass blocker, but a devestating run blocker. I didn't find a single guy that posted consistent run blocking numbers. Perhaps there are a few, I just could not find them.

[SpearSrai]

Here's some more data, because I do like to defend my point, and not just say I'm right to get my post count up.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=G&playerid=4279

 

I looked at most higher rated offensive tackles, I obviously don't have time to look at the all, they all post mostly green in the pass dept. The great pass blockers or finesse guys, post severl 2+ games a season. Gaither didn't have one. Also every highly rated offensive lineman that I looked at had bad games with the fun, that's the nature of run blocking for those that have never played the game but want to speculate on how lineman rank. Gaither posted high rankings (very high) four times. This includes a 5.8 ranking in the NE playoff game. The poor rankings in three weeks were a result of our midseason passing obsession that got us into trouble.

 

The numbers indicate Gaither is a consistent pass blocker, but a devestating run blocker. I didn't find a single guy that posted consistent run blocking numbers. Perhaps there are a few, I just could not find them.

 

I love complex data that I have no idea what it means or how it was gathered, but I can reference to win an argument. (This isn't a dig; I really do.)

[thundercleetz]

Here is the ESPN Insder KC Joyner blog on Gaither that max referenced in his first post:

 

Gaither has been a starter for the past two seasons, and in that time his metrics have been nothing short of superb. He has allowed only seven total sacks in 27 games and only one of these was a "one-on-one sack" (defined as when a defender beats a blocker in a one-on-one environment and tackles the quarterback in the pocket within three seconds of the snap).

 

 

 

That illustrates Gaither's dominant pass-blocking skills, but his run-blocking numbers are also quite notable. Gaither was at the point of attack (POA) on 300 running plays the past two years, and he won his block 255 times, or 85 percent of the time.

 

 

 

That is a solid number on its own, but his 2009 POA win rate of 89.0 percent is even more noteworthy. To put that total into perspective, consider that in a typical NFL season, fewer than one out of 10 offensive linemen will crack the 90 percent POA win mark. Gaither was on the precipice of that mark last year despite battling injuries.

 

 

 

Put these two factors together and it equals a truly elite blindside blocker. Add to this the question marks surrounding many of the left tackles in this year's draft and it means Gaither is hands down the best choice in the market at his position, especially since acquiring him reportedly will cost only a second-round pick.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=5046443

[vmax]

"Allow me to get my post count up and say Gaither is a mauler. In a perfect world, they would find a way to have Gaither and Oher anchor the ends of that line for the next ten years and it would be dominant.

Now...we know Gaither wants (and deserves) LT money. Therein lies the problem. This is why some say "the Ravensa should get what they can now" because next year they might get nothing. That makes sense.

I see no way Gaither willingly moves to RT. It would cost him millions. Plus he can play LT on many teams. The market is there.

I say let Ozzie solve this riddle...I'm not smart enough.

I don't want to lose him. I don't want to see the Ravens get nothing. How they can manage the CAP and keep both is beyond me. You have to pay the Piper and some other part of the team would get weaker and suffer.

 

It's a riddle.

Edited April 8, 2010 by vmax

[SpearSrai]

I see no way Gaither willingly moves to RT. It would cost him millions. Plus he can play LT on many teams. The market is there.

I say let Ozzie solve this riddle...I'm not smart enough.

 

How about a starring role in "Blind Side 2: The Other Guy", the blockbuster sequel to Michael Oher's inspirational story? The film would chronicle the rise, and fall, and rise, and fall, of yet another gargantuous delinquent who became an NFL starter, only with the bonus "displaced veteran" angle.

[geo]

I love complex data that I have no idea what it means or how it was gathered, but I can reference to win an argument. (This isn't a dig; I really do.)

 

I would say sacks and hits is a pretty good indication, anyway that blogger Filmstudy (24x7) who follow the Ravens OL week by week with OL stats, give same similar indications.

 

What about the fact that our runninggame was more efficient than.. ever!

 

What about the fact that two years with Flacco our QB only lost four fumbles, including playoffs.

 

Credit goes to Joe, the OL including the blindside! 3 fumbles lost to Pittsburgh and the last one was in the first drive vs Cows in 2008, and 33 games with out a fumble lost from our QB. Previous to that the starting QB for Ravens had 72 fumbles lost excluding playoffs, an yearly average at six fumbles lost per year against the two per year with Joe. And the record of only 19 fumbles from last year, migth be improved? Some numbers from well 2007 35 fumbles, 26 lost, our QBs had 16 fumbles, 13 lost.

 

What about the fact that keep your OL intact, we migth see 3 WRs or dare I say four? And give Flacco and Heap a break.. they migth live longer! Sorry Chester.. we will not need you service as TE that much.

 

And speaking of payday to two LTs.. I am not believing this. In the first place, Oher is not going to have his payday now, we still have four years to find out, if he is the answer and if he is the LT or RT.

 

This is an exellent possibility to construct a deal with Gaither, 5/7 years with a possible cut scenario after 3-5 years.. when he is still not that old and when Oher migth get his payday. Better now when there still is issue, and therefore is not likely to get Ogden money than next year, when Gaither might be going to Hawaii or whatever + making a deal with Gaither then will be just more troublesome and impossible! Paying two LTs is not the issue now.

 

Gaither has proved to be a solid LT, at least a potentiel top 10-15 LT, Oher proved that he is an exellent RT, who can be used at LT, despite his horrible pass protection play vs Vikes and Steelers.

 

As for Gaither and playing RT? Was it not that position he played the most of the time in Maryland? I agree with Max on this one, he will be unhappy to remove his ass to RT.

 

This is all about how much the FO value Gaither (and Oher).