2010 Orioles Gameday Thread

[thundercleetz]

So I went to an O's game on Wednesday. This team is absolutely horrible and that is not even the worst part. The team just doesn't look like they want to play with the exception of a couple of players (Cory Patterson to name one was hustling his ass off). The team was slow to the ball in the field and did not work the count at all (swining at a lot of first pitches). I know everyone says changing the manager will not do much, but to me it looks like this team is poorly coached. There is no sync in the lineup at all. Everyone looks like they are trying to swing for the fences on the first pitch, there is no directional hitting, no one seems to know how to run the base paths except Cory Patterson, and the defense is terrible. It seems like we are just waiting for the big inning for a guy to hit a homerun. That would be okay if we had some big sluggers, but we don't! We need to be playing small ball. I was looking at the A's lineup and they have no more talent than we do, but they do a very good job of playing small ball and keeping that lineup in sync.

 

The most pathetic thing I saw was Trembley's pitful attempt to get ejected on a close call at first. The Athletic runner was obviously safe, and even if it was close, there was really nothing to argue. Trembley knows he is going to get fired, it looked like he was trying to get ejected to inject some energy into the team. The problem is Trembley was an absolute joke when he went to the field. I don't even think the ump was taking him seriously, he simply walked Trembley to his dugout and led him in. I am sorry, Trembley is a joke and needs to go.

 

Wednesday was my worst experience at a baseball game ever. I am very close to be done with this team and just start following the Nats. I cannot watch a team that doesn't even give an effort like these Orioles do. The Nats are a .500 team because the hustle every game, the O's are just pathetic.

[dc.]

I didn't think Trembley was trying to get ejected on that call.

 

I was there Tuesday and there were a series of bad calls by the first base ump and home plate ump (neither who was at 1st on Wed). But I think he was quite seriously trying to figure out what was going on at that bag for his team. On TV, it showed him very calmly talking to each ump (he eventually talked to three, ending with the crew chief). He didn't seem angry with the crew chief as much as inquisitive.

 

Bottom line... I don't think this is Dave's fault. And I don't think a new manager is a solution at all. If the team is as downtrodden as we think, that kind of move will only function to make them all feel like crap.

 

Especially when the manager has to be switched AGAIN at years end.

[thundercleetz]

I didn't think Trembley was trying to get ejected on that call.

 

I was there Tuesday and there were a series of bad calls by the first base ump and home plate ump (neither who was at 1st on Wed). But I think he was quite seriously trying to figure out what was going on at that bag for his team. On TV, it showed him very calmly talking to each ump (he eventually talked to three, ending with the crew chief). He didn't seem angry with the crew chief as much as inquisitive.

 

Bottom line... I don't think this is Dave's fault. And I don't think a new manager is a solution at all. If the team is as downtrodden as we think, that kind of move will only function to make them all feel like crap.

 

Especially when the manager has to be switched AGAIN at years end.

 

What I think this team needs is a disciplinarian. A guy who will chew your ass out if you don't hustle out a ground ball or a fly ball. We need someone who teaches their players to work the count. No one on this team is entitled to anything, no one is a superstar, so I wouldn't care who the manager pisses off because at this point we are pretty much a team of nobodies. Free agents already do not want to come here, it won't matter if we have a douchebag manager. A new manager won't change anything but it is a start. Even though this might not be Trembley's fault, this team is going nowhere with Trembley. There is no potential.

[dc.]

Trembley came in as the disciplinarian and 'Oriole Way' personality. Though it also came with a lot of respect for the vets on the team - which may or may not have been a good move.

 

I don't know if that attitude has been beaten out of him by a public, media and organization that could care less about 'process' and only cares about end results (regardless of how ridiculous that may be at times) or if he simply is choosing to hide it.

 

Either way, I think that you are right we need a disciplinarian in some ways.

 

But a disciplinarian won't make Ty Wigginton a better fielder, make Garrett Atkins hit more home runs, or make Mark Hendrickson less choke worthy when it counts. We have a team full of potentially brilliant youngsters and entirely flawed veterans.

[millz58]

We have a team full of potentially brilliant youngsters and entirely flawed veterans.

Yup. What we need is less a disciplinarian and more of a coaching-type of manager. And get rid of these stinkin' overpaid vets. I shook my head when the O's signed Tejada and Millwood; and honestly I ain't even hot on Roberts' return, except that he's probably better than what we have now, but not for the money he's getting. I mean really, they're no good to the team in the long run, and the short run is likely to bring real progress unless the team can focus the newer talent. We need a manager who has technical expertise and a patient but firm approach to guiding youth.

[thundercleetz]

Trembley came in as the disciplinarian and 'Oriole Way' personality. Though it also came with a lot of respect for the vets on the team - which may or may not have been a good move.

 

I don't know if that attitude has been beaten out of him by a public, media and organization that could care less about 'process' and only cares about end results (regardless of how ridiculous that may be at times) or if he simply is choosing to hide it.

 

Either way, I think that you are right we need a disciplinarian in some ways.

 

But a disciplinarian won't make Ty Wigginton a better fielder, make Garrett Atkins hit more home runs, or make Mark Hendrickson less choke worthy when it counts. We have a team full of potentially brilliant youngsters and entirely flawed veterans.

 

I completely agree with your last statement, which is why Andy McPhail should be just as much at fault as Trembley. Are we really a team of potentially brilliant youngsters? I am starting to question actually how good guys like Markakis, Jones, and Wieters are. If they are potential stars, Trembley and the staff should be fired. If they are really just average/above-average players then Trembley is not much at fault.

 

I think the problem with Trembley is that he came within the organization. Not only that, but he was not originally hired as the fulltime manager. So in some ways he still represented the "losing ways" instead of the "Oriole way" as advertised as nothing really changed. Another thing is many of our same assistant coaches are in place. We really need a complete overhaul of everything and just start fresh. We thought 2011 was going to be the year to compete, but this season has shown we are a lot further away than that.

[dc.]

Wieters has just passed his 162 game mark. Can't judge him yet. His defense ad 'game calling' skills are great. His bat is not what we expected, but it takes so much time... he is hitting his singles and doubles, the power will come. I have no doubt.

 

Markakis has been very solid for 4 years now - he's a slow starter, this year seems worse than most, but I can't toss 4 years of near 300, 100rbi ball out because of two months.

 

Jones... frustrating, but we'll see.

 

 

I actually have no problem with Millwood and Tejada. Millwood has been near brilliant. Tejada has been solid. It's the other signings... the Atkins, Wiggintons, etc etc... and I called it. Those are your "what if" veterans that are just dragging this team down. Yes, even Wigginton who is "holding this offense up." Whatever. His offense has perhaps won us 2 games... his defense and GIDPs have cost us several too.

[dc.]

We really need a complete overhaul of everything and just start fresh. We thought 2011 was going to be the year to compete, but this season has shown we are a lot further away than that.

 

Also, I agree with the overhaul of the coaches... but really, the dreamer in me sees a team much closer than some people think.

 

First, there's a WHOLE LOT of baseball left this year. A lot can happen in 100 games. Not that we'll compete this year or even push 500, but you can play 100 games at 50-50 and that would be a marked step forward.

 

Second, our starting pitching has shown great strides... our relievers need work, but are consistently overworked... it's really our bats that are killing us this year. And I think it would be interesting to see what a real bat at 1B alone would do. Add a DH bat too, and who knows?

 

Roberts (if ever?)

Markakis

1b bat

dh bat

Tejada

Jones

Wieters

Reimold/Pie?

Izturis

 

I mean, I know that's a pipe dream in many ways... but it could be plausible. I am not giving up on our young pitchers and our decent bats because of one bull 1/2 season

[thundercleetz]

Wieters has just passed his 162 game mark. Can't judge him yet. His defense ad 'game calling' skills are great. His bat is not what we expected, but it takes so much time... he is hitting his singles and doubles, the power will come. I have no doubt.

 

Markakis has been very solid for 4 years now - he's a slow starter, this year seems worse than most, but I can't toss 4 years of near 300, 100rbi ball out because of two months.

 

Jones... frustrating, but we'll see.

 

 

I actually have no problem with Millwood and Tejada. Millwood has been near brilliant. Tejada has been solid. It's the other signings... the Atkins, Wiggintons, etc etc... and I called it. Those are your "what if" veterans that are just dragging this team down. Yes, even Wigginton who is "holding this offense up." Whatever. His offense has perhaps won us 2 games... his defense and GIDPs have cost us several too.

 

Wieters bat speed has been very disappointing. I didn't want to believe the pessimists when Wieters first came up saying he has slow bat speed, but I think I am starting to see it. He has a very nice swing, but he just does not have the bat speed to be an impact hitter. Who knows, maybe he is still adjusting to MLB pitching.

 

I cannot complain about Nick. The guy is the only person in the lineup that takes pitches and works the count, and he almost never has people in scoring position when he hits either. This must be very frustrating for Nick, probably to the point where he just wants to get up there and start hacking like the rest of the guys. It is disappointing that Nick's homerun numbers have dropped since hitting 23 in 2007, but his eye is as sharp as ever and you have to love his plate approach; he just looks to put the ball in play. He is not an All-Star hitter, but he would probably put up some very solid numbers if he had a Tex behind hitting him, and B-Rob hitting infront of him. Put Nick in the Yankees lineup and he is probably easily a .320/.410/.500 (a .900+ OPS guy) hitter with around 20 homeruns and over 100 RBIs and walks.

 

The frustrating thing about Adam Jones is that the guy works his ass off in the offseason. He trains all offseason in Arizona at API. He runs, lifts, watches his diet, hits, and does positional drills all year round. With all the work he puts in he should be seeing major improvements going into his third full MLB season, especially after a very impressive season last year when he was healthy. That just shows that baseball is as much of a natural talent sport as any other sport. Sure, hard work could push you over the top, but so much of it is your natural demeanor and hand-eye coordination. Adam would probably be one hell of a football player with his build, athleticism, and work ethic (Adam was a high school teammate in San Diego of Ravens WR Marcus Smith). Think he could play corner or safety for the Ravens?

[dc.]

Wieters bat speed is down a bit this year... I think that's from a number of changes.

 

But I don't think it will be a long term problem.

 

I heard before he came up that his bat speed would limit him from being able to hit 350, like Joe Mauer. But it shouldn't stop him from hitting 300 most years. And it shouldn't affect his power much at all.

 

JMHO.

 

I think he's in a mild sophomore slump... his last 2-3 months of 09 he hit well over 300 and really turned it on. He's got a lot on his plate now. And the biggest thing impacting him, Markakis and Jones (among others) is that NO ONE else in the line-up is helping them out. It's just sick.

[millz58]

I used to shake my head side to side with a game like tonight's; now I just nod a couple of times, lips pursed...

another quality start, wasted; more blown AB with RISP; costly and untimely errors; whatever...

Wow, Rivera still "gots it", we have been priveleged to watch a HOF in the making, still pitching well in the twilight of his career.

I wish one day the O's will have a player that can reach the twilight of a decent (not nec. HOF) career with them, it's been... awhile.

[dc.]

Jones' at bat was painful... especially that strike-2 call.

 

Lugo was... Lugo. Again.

 

Wigginton and Tejada on the error, just brutal.

 

Like you said... just nod.

[millz58]

Correct me if I'm wrong........... and I hope I am......................

Am I hearing BRADY FREAKIN' ANDERSON doing commentary next to Gary Thorne??!!!

[dc.]

Yes. He started about a month ago in Boston... generally does a game in the booth, game with Dempsey pre- and post-game... then disappears a bit.

 

They are trying ANYTHING to hold attention. Saw Brian Roberts on the pre- and post-game shows one time...shouldn't you be rehabbing???

[millz58]

Yes. He started about a month ago in Boston...

nnnhh-hnh-hnh-hnh (the sound a disgusted Lurch made on the Addams family series)

I knew I recognized that nasally lisp...; yeah, they really are grasping...

Actually, it's not a lisp, but that kind of exaggerated "s" that might as well be one

[dc.]

Seriously... how does Samuel not send Izturis on that play? Do you really think the Orioles will get three hits in an inning? Two hits with a man on? A hit when we need it?

 

Ugh. You MAKE YOUR OWN BREAKS.

[cravnravn]

Can somebody stop this bleeding?? Millwoods getting rocked.

[millz58]

damn, Eddie in the booth with Jim and Gary...

[thundercleetz]

I heard somewhere that the O's now have the exact same record after 62 games as the 1962 New York Mets. You think we can 'beat' their record? Everyone knows that any press is good press!

 

The positive side to being the worst team in the league is that Rice 3B Anthony Rendon is considered an elite prospect in the mold of an Evan Longoria. Jim Callis from Baseball America went as far as saying he would have drafted Rendon over Harper if Rendon were in this year's draft.

[millz58]

Hmmm, playing down for the draft? That's how the Penguins scored Lemieux...

[millz58]

There are people in the stands in SF wearing halloween costumes, too much orange and black on the field. Thorne and Palmer are laughing about it, sorry that that's the main entertainment of tonight's game... the O's are on pace to win like 43 games....for the whole year...

[millz58]

WTF is with the broadcast booth acoustics? sounds like Thorne and palmer are talking into an HVAC tube

[dc.]

We're just 6 outs from going 2-16 in an 18 game stretch for the second time this season.

[millz58]

Wigginton still doing what he can; good for him, I hope. Even Jones looks like he's cashed it in, that was a lame swing on an easily predictable pitch down and away. pitiful. He should try not chewing so much during his ABs, control his breathing and get some Oxygen to his MFing head.

[dc.]

Until last night Wigginton HADN'T been doing what he knew how to do... it was of course skimmed by the announcers who never mention these things about streaky hitters, but it was there...

 

First... did you see the stat in game? 7 HR in April... 6 in May... Hm... he's got 13 on the year, that means NONE in 2 weeks in June. His average fell from nearly 300 to under 280... only 4 RBI in June so far...

 

In fact... INCLUDING last night's 2 hit, 2b and RBI night... Since his last HR on May 22, Wiggy's numbers look like this:

 

224 AVG in 67 AB, 0 HR, 2 2B (both last night), 5 RBI, 11 K, and a whopping 254 SLG.

 

 

But.. overall his numbers are still decent enough (especially compared to anyone else on this team), so it will get NO mention until someone overtakes him. That's the Orioles way. Pump up the buffoon until you have to mention his shortcomings. And then, of course, talk about him like Luke Scott or Garrett Atkins and only talk about "what he COULD do" or "what he did in April"