15 Years Ago Today

[vmax]

"No Dome!!!"

 

I'm worried about this new grass experiment. We''l see next December. Sunlight doesn't hit the field. They better have good growing lights.

[cravnravn]

"No Dome!!!"

 

I'm worried about this new grass experiment. We''l see next December. Sunlight doesn't hit the field. They better have good growing lights.

I'm worried about Thanksgiving on, The ATM is used for numerous high school games, the Stealers field is a joke after Thanksgiving so bad they have to paint the field green

[cravnravn]

TBird, yes you are correct, the MSA paid the Camden Yards rennovations. So I guess the O's have a different agreement worked out than the Ravens do in regard to upkeep.

However, the O's lease is up within a few years of the Ravens. John Angelos mentioned he has ideas of giving Camden Yards an open concourse, and possible party deck areas.

In regards to the NHL. I read Baltimore and Phildelphia were finalists for the Flyers expansion team. Philadelphia was chosen because the Civic Center's structure with the stage did not lend well of hockey seating. Philadelphia promised to build a new arena (which lasted less than 30 years). Would have been cool since the Flyers and Orioles have the same colors.

As far as the dome... We are lucky we didn't get one. The domes built in the 80s-90s are already outdated. The Colts, Rams and Oilers wanted a new stadium after less than twenty years or so in their domes. The original plan was for a BaltoDome, which the Colts and Orioles would have shared. Would have been terrible and horribly outdated. The Minnesota Twins, Houston Astros and Seattle Mariniers have already moved out of their domes. No one likes playing in Toronto for baseball. Each of those domes were built around the same time as the proposed BaltoDome.

Why we didn't do a retractable roof is beyond me Lucas Oil Stadium is beautiful and its used year round

[thundercleetz]

I am worried about the grass field too. In addition to how crappy the Redskins and Steelers fields look, with concussions awareness I think all fields will have to be turf. I've read that there is padding being developed which goes underneath the turf that can help prevent concussions. Grass fields get extremely hard in the cold...

[thundercleetz]

Why we didn't do a retractable roof is beyond me Lucas Oil Stadium is beautiful and its used year round

Efficient use of that technology wasn't around then. The stadium in Houston was the first instance of modern retractable roof stadiums. That stadium was built four years or so after M&T. Granted Houston paid a lot more money for their stadium than we did as well.

[cravnravn]

Efficient use of that technology wasn't around then. The stadium in Houston was the first instance of modern retractable roof stadiums. That stadium was built four years or so after M&T. Granted Houston paid a lot more money for their stadium than we did as well.

Sure it was around, Houston Astros built their retractable roof stadium in 1997

[thundercleetz]

Sure it was around, Houston Astros built their retractable roof stadium in 1997

Astros play outside. Moved into Minute Maid Park in 2000. The Houston Texans play in a retractable roof stadium, opened in 2002. As I said, the first of the modern football stadiums you see today.

[TBird]

TBird, yes you are correct, the MSA paid the Camden Yards rennovations. So I guess the O's have a different agreement worked out than the Ravens do in regard to upkeep. However, the O's lease is up within a few years of the Ravens. John Angelos mentioned he has ideas of giving Camden Yards an open concourse, and possible party deck areas.

 

In regards to the NHL. I read Baltimore and Phildelphia were finalists for the Flyers expansion team. Philadelphia was chosen because the Civic Center's structure with the fixed stage did not lend well of hockey seating. Philadelphia promised to build a new arena (which lasted less than 30 years). Would have been cool since the Flyers and Orioles have the same colors.

 

As far as the dome... We are lucky we didn't get one. The domes built in the 80s-90s are already outdated. The Colts, Rams and Oilers wanted a new stadium after less than twenty years or so in their domes. The original plan was for a BaltoDome, which the Colts and Orioles would have shared. Would have been terrible and horribly outdated. The Minnesota Twins, Houston Astros and Seattle Mariniers have already moved out of their domes. No one likes playing in Toronto for baseball. Each of those domes were built around the same time as the proposed BaltoDome.

Thanks, man.

 

I though so. Yea, you're right. The dome was a bad idea and for the reason you

mentioned. The old Civic Center was just too small and we lost the

Bullets because they had under 5,000 fans at each game. Phil Chanier

said it was so quiet we could hear the fans converations in the stands-lol.

 

I still can't believe how Memphis has a team and we don't. Michael Oher's

father is the play by play announcer - Sean Touey-sp. We're much

bigger town but they have the arena, we don't and the state won't

build one like you see during March madness. Damn, they're as big as

some stadiums.

[TBird]

I am worried about the grass field too. In addition to how crappy the Redskins and Steelers fields look, with concussions awareness I think all fields will have to be turf. I've read that there is padding being developed which goes underneath the turf that can help prevent concussions. Grass fields get extremely hard in the cold...

 

 

Don't get worked up til they do it and somebody goes down which they will

anyway. Webb went down just walking around the field and there was no

action at the time.

 

Perriman was hurt out in OM. He never played a game there. He was hurt

at OM. He had great mini camps always breezing by the secondary.

[oldno82]

Ranking the M&T experience:

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/MT-Bank-Stadium-Experience-Ranked-No-2/c78517a4-554f-4c15-a2f0-58ee209ef8c4

[TBird]

That link also has a link about the pro bowl with our guys

Koch and Cox doing so well. Dooom played too.

 

Koch paid for his entire family to go over so he needed the

winner's share of over $50,000. He should be a millionaire

by now after getting raises. Min wage is around $700,000

pr yr. The practice squad players make around $70,000 pr yr.

 

Cox was part of two successful fake FGs.

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Sam-Koch-Wins-Pro-Bowl-Gets-Needed-Bonus/f8c51176-1d5e-4f47-a0e2-740be182b920

[Tornado700]

WoW craven - that's cool having Jackman as a neighbor. I met his daughter

who was gorgeous. both were really cool.

 

The Os would have moved to DC a long time ago w/o Camden yards but

we can thank Irsay for that. The legislators finally woke up and created the

stadium authority to run it.

 

Larry Luchino was brought over from EBWs law firm to run things. he helped

create the design telling the architechs they wanted a Fenway park type

stadium where the seats were close and the field would be small.

 

EBW put the city on trial because there weren't enought fans. there was a

4 game weekend series vs somebody and over 100,000 fans came out and EBW said they city passed. Theyre staying. then he died in 88

and the estate sold the team to Eli Jacobs and Luchinno started mumblings

bout a new stadium. After losing the Colts they quickly built the yard which is

still being called the greatest venue in the world for watching

sports but O's would have definitely moved w/o no stadium.

 

Roland Hemond was GM and he made the worse trade in Orioles trading

Harnisch and Schilling, for Glen Davis a power

hitter who did nothing here but get injured while the two minor league

pitchers became the best in baseball. Schilling became a 20 game winner

and HOF, I think.

 

Jacobs sold to Angelos, or the team went into court after Jacobs lost all his

money and Petey out-bided everyone and we were sooooooo excited

to have him as owner. He paid the lsargest sum ever for a professional team at the time of $275M, but old Jerry said he paid the

most of any individual for Cowboys. Petey had an investors group

that included tom clancy who died a couple of years ago but he

still has an offince in the warehouse with his name on it.

 

Petey won't let anyone forget him.

 

Petey is a nice guy for those that know him. I met him at the firm

as he represented dad in the asbestos case vs Beth steel. He

got a nice settlement for him which helped him and mom thru

retirement after Beth Steel lost everything and was sold and all

the employees lost pensions. Mom still gets $77 pr mo from them

after dad working there for 50 yrs.

 

T- Angelos payed $173 mil. for the Orioles. I remember that very well.

[TBird]

Thanks,man. We thought it was outrageous amount at the time.

 

I couldn't remember the exact deal and today they're worth around

$1B same as the Ravens w/o looking it up and mostly because of

the venue and where it is.

[Tornado700]

Wrong again T. The O's aren't worth anywhere near 1 Billlion. Not even close. Try around $ 550 Million. Ravens are though.

[Spen]

Wrong again T. The O's aren't worth anywhere near 1 Billlion. Not even close. Try around $ 550 Million. Ravens are though.

Forbes listed their value at 1 billion in their annual valuations last March.

[Tornado700]

Forbes listed their value at 1 billion in their annual valuations last March.

Yes they did. The Dallas Cowboys.

 

One other thing Spen: Carolina lost easily. Denver spanked them. Newton was neutered.

[TBird]

Like I said, Angelos paid more than another other owner for a team - $50M more according to link below which called him the worst owner.

 

___________________________ The complicatedPeter Angelos - SportsBusiness Daily ...

www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/.../Peter-Ang...

Street & Smith's Sports Group

Aug 26, 2013 - Your group paid $173 million, $50 million more than any Major LeagueBaseball franchise had cost. ... In a 2009 survey, Sports Illustrated anointed youbaseball's worst owner, citing ... The Orioles, a team stocked with as much young talent as any in baseball, are ... What matters most to Peter Angelos?

[TBird]

Forbes listed their value at 1 billion in their annual valuations last March.

That's what I was going by but this link says $460M down from

Tornado's number.

 

Another link said the same.

 

http://www.getnetworth.com/tag/how-much-is-baltimore-orioles-worth/

[TBird]

I also went by this that said the average MLB team is valued

at $1.2B (with the small-market Tampa valued at $600M)

I knew I read somewhere that the O's and Ravens

are worth about $1B in the Yard, a little over a billion for

Bisciotti who paid around $600M to Art MOdell for the team.

His counselor said he would make more money investing on

Federal notes getting about 5% at the time then it crashed

with everything else in 08 to about 1%. Everything Bisciotti

touches turns to gold.

 

O's also spent $118M for payroll, the 12th highest out of 30 teams.

 

 

http://blog.surepayroll.com/2015-mlb-team-payrolls/

[Spen]

Yes they did. The Dallas Cowboys.

 

One other thing Spen: Carolina lost easily. Denver spanked them. Newton was neutered.

This is where I got my numbers from.

 

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/

 

As for the super bowl, just another example of why I dont gamble.

[TBird]

Wrong again T. The O's aren't worth anywhere near 1 Billlion. Not even close. Try around $ 550 Million. Ravens are though.

Think again Tornado.

 

Your Forbes link doesn't include their CABLE TV ownership. Acquiring MASN which has the rights for the Nationals

games as well pushed their value over $1B according

to Bloomberg in 2013 as O's are baseball's latest billion dollar team and baseball's 7th richest team.

 

 

 

The Baltimore Orioles are Major League Baseball’slatest billion-dollar franchise.

A new report by Bloomberg values the ballclub at $1.12 billion when factoring in the team’s majority stake in regional sports network MASN.

Enlarge

The Baltimore Orioles are valued at more than $1 billion, according to Bloomberg.

RYAN SHARROW

Bloomberg compiled the figures by examining ticket sales, concessions, sponsorships, broadcast rights, interests in TV channels, radio stations and real estate.

The Orioles are one of 10 MLB teams to crack the $1 billion mark. There are 30 MLB teams and the Orioles rank seventh overall.

The Orioles, owned by Peter Angelos, also hold a majority share of MASN. The cable channel owns the TV rights to both the Orioles and Washington Nationals, which hold a minority stake in the network.

FEATURED JOBS

Valuation Vice President

Weinstein Realty Consultants

Director of Sales

Hilton Grand Vacations

Senior Teller

M&T Bank

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By comparison, a March report by Forbes pegged theOrioles’ value at $618 million. But that figure did not include ownership stakes in TV networks.

Bloomberg notes that revenue from national TV contracts and merchandise is split evenly among the teams. The value of MLB Advanced Media, a subsidiary that provides content to Internet and mobile subscribers, is also evenly split.

At $3.28 billion, the New York Yankees are the most valuable team in baseball, Bloomberg says. The Los Angeles Dodgers are next at $2.1 billion, followed by the Boston Red Sox at $2.06 billion.

Get Contact Information for Boston Red Sox Baseball Club Limited Partnership and 1 other.

[Tornado700]

Good call T. I seriously forgot the cable acquisition from Angelos. You're right- 1 Bil. Angelos is a shrewd win at all cost no matter what kind of guy. And in the long run, this hurts the team.

[TBird]

And everyone should be pissed at this. MASN

owned the rights for the Nats games in DC. That

was the kicker when they brought the team in. The

O's were in the country's 4 largest market when there

wasn't a team there. It went from York, PA all

the way down to NOrthern, VA but fans came as far

from North and even South Carolina to games.

 

Petey lost all that revnue but owned the cable market so

the new family, Lerners, that owned the Nats didn't have

a cable contract.

 

Petey was guaranteed that CABLE market in exchange for bringing

the Nats in from Toronto and breaking up his territory

of 9.6M people which he had for over 20 years or more.

 

MLB did it because of pressure from Congress that wanted a

team there and in part because MLB owners were still pissed

at Petey for nixing the fielding of replacement teams like the

NFL had in the 80s and they won their strike. In baseball,

the entire season was shut down or almost when the owners

wanted more financial controls and the World Series was

cancelled for the first time. Players won.

 

But now the Lerners want that cable market after seeing what it di

for Petey's franchise and Selig wanted them to have it so they

renegged on their promise to let Os continue with the right to DCA

games.

 

 

They both promised in writing so Petey sued them.

 

You really don't want to mess with him in court. Just as the

asbestos companies and my mom who got a nice settlement via

Petey and especially in this case since he has the guarantees in

writing.

 

So in retaliation for getting sued Seleg gave the All Star game to

another city. It was supposed to come here. The last time he did that

to Petey he lost in court in 2005 and again it was over the Os TV

rights in DC.

 

Baltimore always gets it in the back from the NFL and MLB.

 

Did you know Jerry Hoffberger was the first owner to put a ticket

window in DC for that market. When EBW came over from DC to

own the team he ended up with everything below Baltimore down

to Florida.

 

Petey is actually a nice guy for those that know him. I know a guy who works

for the food company that supples all the stadium's concessions and the

private club restaurant in the warehouse. He was supervisor the food in

Pete's sky box. When he left Angelos gave him a $100 tip. Five mins later

his boss said Angelos just gave me a $100 tip so I have to split it with you.

He said no you don't, he gave me $100 too. I asked much does he pay for

all that food in the box and he said that night his bill came to $15,000. Man,

they pay that for each home game. My nephew sat in one and they just

kept bringing in crab cakes, lobster, steak the entire game plus burgers and

hot dogs and a ton of ice cream for the kids plus desert. I don't eat bad. Had

fried shrimp last night at MO's and treated two old friends to crab cakes on

Saturday. Had a hot dog for lunch.

 

 

I met him at the

firm when I took mom down to collect her asbestos money. I never saw

him before as this was before he bought the Os but there was no

mistaking who he was. He walked through the halls like he owned the

place. It was a little office off Harford Rd but he moved into the top

floor of the World Trade Center after he bought it-lol.

 

An update on the court case. The Nats one the first round that was in

arbitration and demand millions from Os. They're not paying and sued

MLB. Selig was pissed. Now he used a power play and force another

owner to sell his team, the name in the link. He couldn't do that with Petey

he's so strong. This is a better link than the other one.

 

So it's fitting that Petey kicked Selig in the ass for renegging and being such

an ass by suing him as Selig went out of office he's responsible for starting

a war between clubs that is being felt all over baseball and will have

great effects on every team.

 

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2014/7/29/5949595/orioles-nationals-involved-in-tv-rights-lawsuit

 

 

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb-news/4603875-baltimore-orioles-washington-nationals-masn-dispute-tv-rights-bud-selig-montreal-expos

[oldno82]

I concur T. The MASN contract to the O's was part of the deal when the Expos moved next door. Angelos should never have given that up and I don't think he will as long as he's alive.

[TBird]

LOL - Petey won.

 

The court threw out the arbitrator's decision so right now everything

is back in limbo. MASN announced that it was confident a neutral

and fair process would play out in the end.

 

The Nats and MLB were pissed and said nothing.

 

I told you, don't mess with Petey in court.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3304199/Judge-tosses-arbitration-said-MASN-owes-Nats-298M.html