Getting Away With It

[deeshopper]

How do you get away with headbutting a player after a dead ball whistle? Is this something the Ravens can learn in the offseason?

[vmax]

How do you get away with it?

The answer is...the victim must wear a Ravens uniform.

 

Just like last week as the ref stood there and watched a Chief player struggle for 5 minutes to rip Heaps helmet off....no flag.

[OutsideRzAcE]

How do you get away with headbutting a player after a dead ball whistle? Is this something the Ravens can learn in the offseason?

 

The refs were abysmal. They made bad calls on both sides but of course, more against us. We would have lost the game regardless because we always choke against Roethlisberger, but damn did the refs suck.

[Guest BallTMore]

We would have lost the game regardless because we always choke against Roethlisberger, but damn did the refs suck.

 

 

That's how I felt, which is why I wasn't irate when the Webb TD was called back for a bs hold. I figured we would have blown the lead anyway.

[Spen]

I was amazed Kemoeatu got called for the penalty late in the game. He got away with the same thing early in the game.

 

I dont think the officiating was good, but I dont think it cost us the game.

[Preacher]

Sadly, I think that game was officiated... about average.

 

There were definite calls missed on both sides. As stated, Kemo probably should have been called the first time. Ike should have been called for the headbutt. I think there were a couple PI calls that we should have been called on as well.

 

Harrison, as usual, could file charges against half the O line for molestation, but didn't get a call-very typical. How in the world does Hines Ward get a 15 yard penalty called on him, and no penalty called on any of the four Ravens going after him? Ben was hit VERY late, and no penalty, as normal again.

 

Yet, they also called the game pretty tight in other places. At least, when it was all said and done, the refs called it evenly. I don't mind so-so officiating, when it is going both ways. But when it is so-so in the areas that hurt your team the worst, and good in the areas that help the other team, that is what I hate.

 

But I still wonder how, in a playoff game, there can be 15 penalties called for what, over 150 yards or more? Let Them Play!

[thundercleetz]

The only problem I had was the penalty on the Webb touchdown. I am not sure how you call that holding.

[cravnravn]

The only problem I had was the penalty on the Webb touchdown. I am not sure how you call that holding.

 

[dc.]

Crav, still shots do no justice... You used to post the pic of Santonio Holmes in the Super Bowl with both toes off the ground. So what? It doesn't show whether they touched before or after.

 

In this instance: Smith is PUSHING that guy not pulling him. An offensive lineman can hold jersey as he is pushing and has leverage.

 

If you watch the play in motion, Smith is just pushing and pushing and pushing... and granted, the guy isn't able to turn around, but it's not a block in the back it's just a damn good block.

[Preacher]

Crav, still shots do no justice... You used to post the pic of Santonio Holmes in the Super Bowl with both toes off the ground. So what? It doesn't show whether they touched before or after.

 

In this instance: Smith is PUSHING that guy not pulling him. An offensive lineman can hold jersey as he is pushing and has leverage.

 

If you watch the play in motion, Smith is just pushing and pushing and pushing... and granted, the guy isn't able to turn around, but it's not a block in the back it's just a damn good block.

 

It doesn't matter whether he is pushing or pulling, the refs looking for the jersey being twisted, and then the body going with it. That is exactly what happened here. The jersey was twisted, and the right shoulder went with it. Had this play happened on the other side of the field, I doubt it would have been called. But because it happened right when the ball carrier was running around him, it creating a scoring opportunity, which is exactly why it was called, IMO. I was actually surprised the refs got that one right.

[dc.]

It doesn't matter whether he is pushing or pulling, the refs looking for the jersey being twisted, and then the body going with it. That is exactly what happened here. The jersey was twisted, and the right shoulder went with it. Had this play happened on the other side of the field, I doubt it would have been called. But because it happened right when the ball carrier was running around him, it creating a scoring opportunity, which is exactly why it was called, IMO. I was actually surprised the refs got that one right.

 

I'm not saying it was right, wrong or otherwise - it was just ticky-tacky. Many, many times that won't be called.

 

Not blaming the game on it either. Refs were all over the place on both sides of the field. Typical of Triplette.

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011011500/2010/POST19/ravens@steelers/watch#watch

 

Watch the replay there - a few highlights down the list. If that's an offensive lineman blocking downfield for a runner, it's considered a great block. (This will get me in trouble, but:) If it was Hines Ward, it would be considered a great block for a runner. In the first taping of the play, you can see the entire thing - from the time Smith engages to the time the Steeler falls. It was a fine a block.

[millz58]

In this instance: Smith is PUSHING that guy not pulling him. An offensive lineman can hold jersey as he is pushing and has leverage.

 

If you watch the play in motion, Smith is just pushing and pushing and pushing... and granted, the guy isn't able to turn around, but it's not a block in the back it's just a damn good block.

That's what I thought, I couldn't believe the holding call. But I also felt like Spen, at that point I figured Mo was way to the Gold side, and we were gonna blow it anyway. In the end there were just too many mistakes. The refs were everywhere, and were looking for things to call it seemed.

[dc.]

I didn't see the game - so I can't comment on anything else. Just this one call I've seen talked about a bit. And not that it was horrible. But I think if it hadn't been called - you wouldn't have heard a word of "they got away with one."

[Spen]

 

 

Harrison, as usual, could file charges against half the O line for molestation, but didn't get a call-very typical. How in the world does Hines Ward get a 15 yard penalty called on him, and no penalty called on any of the four Ravens going after him? Ben was hit VERY late, and no penalty, as normal again.

 

 

If I was a ref and could clearly see who started an altercation, I'd call him and him alone every time. Otherwise there is no reason for him not to start foolishness like Hines did.

[dc.]

I also think Hines was called for hands to the face after the play. He clearly moved his hand up under the helmet of Reed and that's a large part of what led to the altercation.

[Preacher]

If I was a ref and could clearly see who started an altercation, I'd call him and him alone every time. Otherwise there is no reason for him not to start foolishness like Hines did.

 

That's not how it works though. Usually, you call both the original altercation, and the retaliation, or just the retaliation.

[Preacher]

I also think Hines was called for hands to the face after the play. He clearly moved his hand up under the helmet of Reed and that's a large part of what led to the altercation.

 

Thing is, it was Ward he was taken down by Ed Reed. He put his right arm around the shoulder/head of Ward, used his right foot as a pivot foot, and tried to flip Ward over his leg onto the ground. Ward didn't flip, but they both did go to the ground. That is clearly a 15 yard penalty for unnecessary roughness. It was only after that flip that Ward put his hands in Reed's grill.

 

Before that, Ward contacted the shoulders in the block, and his hands slid up under the helmet. However, that is not a penalty, nor should have led to one. Then, three Ravens piled on.

 

I don't think anyone should have been ejected, I don't think Reed was dirty for doing that. I don't even blame the 3 other Ravens for stepping in. That kind of mentality is what makes both of our teams very good. I just blame the ref for not calling EITHER the original takedown, OR the 3 guys piling on Ward afterwards.

 

However, as I said above, often times, it is the retaliation that is called, and that is what happened here. Ward's retaliation to the take down was called.

 

Missed call by the Refs, veteran move by Reed. Sucker the other player into taking a penalty by retaliating.

[Spen]

That's not how it works though. Usually, you call both the original altercation, and the retaliation, or just the retaliation.

 

Well the way it happened Sunday is not how it normally works. However if the ref can decide whether to call the original and the retaliation or just the retaliation I guess he can also decide whether just to call the original infraction. I think the right call was made and would say the same think if a Raven started it and was penalized alone.

 

If more refs would do it, or if they could add another penalty in addition to the normal offsetting ones, then a lot of the idiocy that some players get involved in could be removed. I hate pests who do things just to try to draw penalties, it cheapens the game in my opinion.

[Preacher]

Well the way it happened Sunday is not how it normally works. However if the ref can decide whether to call the original and the retaliation or just the retaliation I guess he can also decide whether just to call the original infraction. I think the right call was made and would say the same think if a Raven started it and was penalized alone.

 

If more refs would do it, or if they could add another penalty in addition to the normal offsetting ones, then a lot of the idiocy that some players get involved in could be removed. I hate pests who do things just to try to draw penalties, it cheapens the game in my opinion.

 

I understand what your saying, and to a certain degree, I agree with you.

 

However, I also like the emotional aspect of the game. You not only have to control yourself physically (not overrunning your assignments) and mentally (not allowing previous mistakes to cloud future judgment), but also emotionally (not allowing someone else to key you up and set you off). For me, that is all part of the game.

 

Of course, I used to be a hockey player. That kind of thing was 95 percent of the game for us.

 

I do however, agree with the stupid offsetting penalties rule. You have pushing, shoving, throwing each other to the ground, and what does it amount to? A do-over. HUH?? Heck, I'd be all for suspending a player for 4 plays for things like that (yeah, a little more of my hockey background coming out).

[dc.]

Before that, Ward contacted the shoulders in the block, and his hands slid up under the helmet. However, that is not a penalty, nor should have led to one. Then, three Ravens piled on.

 

That is a penalty and it should have been called. That's illegal hands to the face - called on offensive and defensive lineman regularly. However, I think that happened AFTER the play was over - so the ref saw it as a push/hit, not a slip of the arm. That's how the replay looks to me - regardless of what follows. And what follows immediately, is both players hitting facemasks before anyone else is involved.

[Preacher]

That is a penalty and it should have been called. That's illegal hands to the face - called on offensive and defensive lineman regularly. However, I think that happened AFTER the play was over - so the ref saw it as a push/hit, not a slip of the arm. That's how the replay looks to me - regardless of what follows. And what follows immediately, is both players hitting facemasks before anyone else is involved.

 

The actual rule is "Hands cannot be thrust forward above the frame to contact an opponent on the neck, face or head." Hines did thrust his hands forward. He contacted the shoulders, and then his hands rode up on Reed. If what you are saying is actually illegal, then James Harrison would be getting 10/15 yard penalty called against the RT or RG about every 3 to 4 plays.

 

No, in the end, it was simply a veteran move by Ed R. Just like Cromartie's tugging on Wallace's jersey at the end of the last Jet's game-which should have given us a 1st and goal with about a minute or more to play. It is a calculated risk/reward assessment. Ed R. threw Ward down, and then Ward retaliated and was penalized. Nothing wrong with that. The person who does the first illegal (can't think of a better word) act usually is not seen in those scenarios-but he takes a risk that he too will be penalized, or that Ward does not act. But clearly, there were penalties to be assessed to both parties.

 

Of course, I am surprised they didn't throw the flag on all four Ravens, and a few other Steelers just for the heck of it on that play, just to make sure their stats for "Flags thrown per game" didn't decrease at all. I wonder if any of them ever heard the phrase, "Let them play". As long as it doesn't take away, or give an unfair scoring chance, DONT THROW THE FLAG.