Zorn Fired

[thundercleetz]

Joe needs to quit being a pussy. He didn't live up to expectations this year with a stacked WR core, which could be blamed on the offensive line, but I believe it was a combination of the two, and Joe has to play better next year.

 

Sure, Joe could have played better, but once did you ever hear our players come out and attack Joe? In the past our players have been very quick to point out QB play as a weakness on this team when we had Boller or whoever was at QB. Now when the players vent it is about the playcalling and the offense in general. I hear Cam is not very popular with the players. Joe has the full support of his teammates and while he could play better, so could the rest of the guys on offense as well. Something isn't clicking, and you have to wonder why the OC can't get things on track with all this talent.

 

Joe is probably saying just venting the frustration that all of his teammates want to vent. I hear Joe really gained some respect from his teammates for coming out and speaking his mind. I don't think Cam is a player favorite. This is definitely going to be a big storyline this offseason, the Ravens have decided not to comment on what Joe said. This is a clear attack on Cam Cameron if you ask me:

 

"We tried to go out on Sunday and respect what [Cameron] wanted to get done. I tried to run the offense the way Cam wanted it to be run. That's what I was trying to do, but maybe it was a matter of Jim and Cam not communicating."

 

"I don't think it was a good decision. I'm disappointed, and they know I'm disappointed."

[yagersports]

Isn't this what anyone should want from a QB? Shouldn't a QB, the leader of the football team, voice their opinion about personnel moves? I like what Flacco has done here, and I have no complaints about him speaking his opinion. I'll begin to have problems if Flacco uses these events to begin demanding trades or creating problems that don't exist. He was honest, he spoke up, and things didn't work out for him. That's life sometimes and we all have to learn to work through it. Who knows, Joe may feel differently after another season. Maybe he'll be like, wow, you're right, he was slowing my progress down.

[Spen]

Joe needs to quit being a pussy. He didn't live up to expectations this year with a stacked WR core, which could be blamed on the offensive line, but I believe it was a combination of the two, and Joe has to play better next year.

 

I have no problem with Joe complaining about Zorn's firing. Otherwise I agree. Sadly I think Joe is as good now as he will ever be, which in my opinion is nothing better than a journeyman QB.

 

My gut feeling is a new OC would improve the offense about as much as firing Cavanaugh did, firing Fassel did, and firing Billick did. The amount of receiving talent we had on this team was greatly underutilized. Sure there is some blame to spread around but to me the lions share of the blame falls on Joe.

[geo]

I have no problem with Joe complaining about Zorn's firing. Otherwise I agree. Sadly I think Joe is as good now as he will ever be, which in my opinion is nothing better than a journeyman QB.

 

My gut feeling is a new OC would improve the offense about as much as firing Cavanaugh did, firing Fassel did, and firing Billick did. The amount of receiving talent we had on this team was greatly underutilized. Sure there is some blame to spread around but to me the lions share of the blame falls on Joe.

 

I have been defending Cam, but the conclusion is hard to ignore.

I am hoping for more for Joe. And I find it unfair to say that his learning curve should stop at this point.

 

And our passing game were better last year. Even though Heap clearly were a better player, and Rice pretty much the same.. Mason, Boldin, Stallworth and TJ were not a better combo than Mason, Clayton and KW.

 

Btw this Falcons game was our 9th game, that Falcons game were the eigth game when he had for more than 100 passing yards in the second half.. He never passed for + 100 yards in the second half.

 

In the first nine games Joe had 2132 passing yards and 15 TDs/7 Int., the last nine games including PO he had 1916 yards and 13 TD/4int. Well this is not telling much but when you compare first half and second half.. first half season he had 986 and 6/2 in the first half and 1146 and 9/5 in the second half.. In the second half of the season he had less yard.. but not in the first half when he had 1304 yards 17TD and 4 int but only 598 yards and 2 TD and 2 int in the second half.

 

To be fair there were probably a reason why we did not pass much late in the second half, we would like to improve our runninggame and control TOP (and defend our defense), but overall he was handcuffed this year, and after the Falcons game it was also evident for me!

[DMK]

Good. Im glad flacco took this personal and is saying something. Joe usually only shows fire after touchdowns.

 

I loooove our fans hating on Joe tho. Mighty hypocritical when you consider Joe is the best QB this franchise has ever had....and we have had ALOT OF QBS. Not to mention he's improved each year thus far, and 25 and 10 is not bad by any means.

 

Fact of the matter is, this offense is going nowhere under cam. wouldnt matter if we had peyton manning if you have an egomaniac/ control freak of an offensive coordinator who IMO has done more harm them good to Joe's maturation as a QB. Joe should have already had plenty of chances to call his own plays and lead this team on the go, but anyone who doesnt realize cam has hindered Joe's progress is blind or ignorant.

 

No spread 4? No no huddle offense? No quick slants to big receivers? Not joes fault folks, he simply does what hes told....which is a shame. Look at the majority of the standout qbs, and im talking the young guns of the league. They are turned loose many many times during the season, especially in critical drives. But not Joe. And its not because of lack of talent or ability. its lack of opportunity.

 

Im sure a couple of you fellas would disagree and thats not suprising, but thats how i see it. Hard to blame the talent when they are largely being held down by a system.

[colincac]

I would hardly call what is happening here 'hating' on Joe. The guy has all the talent and arm in the world, but he has not been able to develop this year into what he could be. He locks targets far too often and for too long, which is an awful thing to do when you have a deep WR core as we did. I still believe the guy can put it together, but getting upset publicly as opposed to taking it as a sign they think he can improve is disappointing from my point of view.

[Spen]

I have been defending Cam, but the conclusion is hard to ignore.

I am hoping for more for Joe. And I find it unfair to say that his learning curve should stop at this point.

 

 

I'd agree if I thought he was learning. I don't think he has progressed much at all since his rookie season. Thats why I have little faith that he'll develop much more than he already has.

[thundercleetz]

I have no problem with Joe complaining about Zorn's firing. Otherwise I agree. Sadly I think Joe is as good now as he will ever be, which in my opinion is nothing better than a journeyman QB.

 

My gut feeling is a new OC would improve the offense about as much as firing Cavanaugh did, firing Fassel did, and firing Billick did. The amount of receiving talent we had on this team was greatly underutilized. Sure there is some blame to spread around but to me the lions share of the blame falls on Joe.

 

I know you love to criticize Joe, and some of your criticism is certainly justified. However, calling Joe a journeyman QB is absolutely ridiculous! Did you forget how bad we had it with Dilfer, Banks, Boller, and Wright? Shaun Hill, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kerry Collins, Jason Campbell, and Jon Kitna are journeymen quarterbacks. I really can't believe people are forgetting how bad the QB situation has been the past decade. These QB's couldn't sniff what Joe has done in this league his first three seasons.

 

So Flacco isn't in the same class as Manning and Brady. He isn't even in the same class as Rivers, Brees, Ben, Rogers or maybe even Ryan. But that doesn't mean he isn't a very good QB in this league. Flacco to me is similar to an Eli Manning. A very good quarterback who can win you a Super Bowl, the consistency of an elite QB just isn't there. I'll take a 93 QB rating every year. And that is taking into account a piss poor offensive line, no deep threat, no running game, and several dropped TDs. I can name at least 20 teams that we have a better QB situation then.

 

I do agree with you, I am not sure how much better Flacco can get. I still think he can improve in areas such as consistency with his footwork and getting more bulk to withstand the defensive rush. However, a guy can only get so good at being natural with his decision making. We can't force Joe to throw the ball more over the middle or hit receivers in stride, but a WC offense that required Joe to throw more quick slants would definitely help him more. Also, we have never had a legitimate deep threat to utilize Joe's arm. All of the elite QB's have a deep threat, Joe does not. In other words, we could do a better job of utilizing Joe's talents. I think he could get into that next tier of great QBs.

[yagersports]

Saying that you can see little improvement in Flacco's game since his rookie season is being a bit stubborn. It does seem the improvement from last year to this year was far less than the improvement we saw from the 1st year to the 2nd. However two things happened this year for Joe. He absolutely learned to beat the cover two, and in doing so he absolutely learned to throw over the middle. If you didn't see the noticeable improvement in Joe's ability to throw over the middle, then you just didn't watch the games or you've got blinders on. I know how it is to have blinders, I still say Ben isn't an elite QB, and I'll stick to it no matter how ridiculous it gets lol. I love my irrational hate lol.

[cravnravn]

Lets get rid of Joe, Carson Palmer wants out of Cinncy..We can get him!!!

[Spen]

I know you love to criticize Joe, and some of your criticism is certainly justified. However, calling Joe a journeyman QB is absolutely ridiculous! Did you forget how bad we had it with Dilfer, Banks, Boller, and Wright? Shaun Hill, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kerry Collins, Jason Campbell, and Jon Kitna are journeymen quarterbacks. I really can't believe people are forgetting how bad the QB situation has been the past decade. These QB's couldn't sniff what Joe has done in this league his first three seasons.

 

So Flacco isn't in the same class as Manning and Brady. He isn't even in the same class as Rivers, Brees, Ben, Rogers or maybe even Ryan. But that doesn't mean he isn't a very good QB in this league. Flacco to me is similar to an Eli Manning. A very good quarterback who can win you a Super Bowl, the consistency of an elite QB just isn't there. I'll take a 93 QB rating every year. And that is taking into account a piss poor offensive line, no deep threat, no running game, and several dropped TDs. I can name at least 20 teams that we have a better QB situation then.

 

I do agree with you, I am not sure how much better Flacco can get. I still think he can improve in areas such as consistency with his footwork and getting more bulk to withstand the defensive rush. However, a guy can only get so good at being natural with his decision making. We can't force Joe to throw the ball more over the middle or hit receivers in stride, but a WC offense that required Joe to throw more quick slants would definitely help him more. Also, we have never had a legitimate deep threat to utilize Joe's arm. All of the elite QB's have a deep threat, Joe does not. In other words, we could do a better job of utilizing Joe's talents. I think he could get into that next tier of great QBs.

 

I get tired of people saying how good Joe is because of how bad our other QBs were. Its like saying how good 'Ice Ice Baby' is because 'have you heard the rest of Vanilla Ice's struff?'. Yeah he is probably the best of a bad lot.

 

I dont think he is a very good QB at this point. I dont think he can win a Super Bowl unless he gets in a situation such as the one Dilfer found himself in. Look at Joe's playoff numbers,and for the most part look at Joe's numbers against good teams. He may be better than most of the journeymen on your list, but as is I think he is far from being a QB that a franchise should be happy with. Frankly I wouldnt be surprised to see him have a Kitna like career when its all said and done. I am not saying they should look elsewhere (yet) because he should be given a chance to improve and grow.

 

I cannot argue with his stats, they are very good but I think part of that is Cam protecting him and part of it are just how stats can be misleading.

[cravnravn]

I cannot argue with his stats, they are very good but I think part of that is Cam protecting him and part of it are just how stats can be misleading.

 

You cant do that!!!! Stats dont lie, they might not tell the entire truth, but they dont lie..

[thundercleetz]

I get tired of people saying how good Joe is because of how bad our other QBs were. Its like saying how good 'Ice Ice Baby' is because 'have you heard the rest of Vanilla Ice's struff?'. Yeah he is probably the best of a bad lot.

 

I don't agree with that just because Joe is galxies better than anything we have ever had. What I am doing and everyone else is doing is comparing Joe to the other just below elite QBs I mentioned: Rivers, Brees, Ben, Rogers and maybe even Ryan. It like comparing someone who got an A on a test to someone who got a B or B+. Sure, Joe isn't on the level, but he is very good. I still think he is closer to an Eli Manning than a Jon Kitna. That is why people see Joe as a good QB, because his number compare very favorably to the great QBs.

 

I dont think he is a very good QB at this point. I dont think he can win a Super Bowl unless he gets in a situation such as the one Dilfer found himself in. Look at Joe's playoff numbers,and for the most part look at Joe's numbers against good teams. He may be better than most of the journeymen on your list, but as is I think he is far from being a QB that a franchise should be happy with. Frankly I wouldnt be surprised to see him have a Kitna like career when its all said and done. I am not saying they should look elsewhere (yet) because he should be given a chance to improve and grow.

 

I cannot argue with his stats, they are very good but I think part of that is Cam protecting him and part of it are just how stats can be misleading.

 

Good point on the playoff games, I certainly agree, this is where Joe has room to improve. However, I don't see how Cam is protecting Flacco at all. First, the Ravens had the 28th worst yard per carry average in the league. Second, Flacco got sacked second most out of any QB in the league. How is that being protected? If you want to see improvement in Flacco's game look at his numbers last year compared to this year (88.9 QB rating vs 93.6), then look at the team rush numbers (4.7 vs. 3.8). He did better essentially working with less.

[Spen]

I don't agree with that just because Joe is galxies better than anything we have ever had. What I am doing and everyone else is doing is comparing Joe to the other just below elite QBs I mentioned: Rivers, Brees, Ben, Rogers and maybe even Ryan. It like comparing someone who got an A on a test to someone who got a B or B+. Sure, Joe isn't on the level, but he is very good. I still think he is closer to an Eli Manning than a Jon Kitna. That is why people see Joe as a good QB, because his number compare very favorably to the great QBs.

 

Not always, maybe not you but some people are saying that since Joe is better than anyone we had so far that we should be happy with what we have. I dont agree, I would like to have a good QB not just 'good for us' and I do not think we have one. Joe isn't close to the QB that anyone on your list is IMO.

 

 

Good point on the playoff games, I certainly agree, this is where Joe has room to improve. However, I don't see how Cam is protecting Flacco at all. First, the Ravens had the 28th worst yard per carry average in the league. Second, Flacco got sacked second most out of any QB in the league. How is that being protected? If you want to see improvement in Flacco's game look at his numbers last year compared to this year (88.9 QB rating vs 93.6), then look at the team rush numbers (4.7 vs. 3.8). He did better essentially working with less.

 

Cam's simple game plan is to protect his QB who often cannot think or find targets IMO. I really think if they opened the offense up and unleashed Joe like most people seem to want that his flaws would be magnified. I'm not going to argue an goofy stat like QB rating in regards to how a QB is doing.

 

Without looking at stats, and instead deciding having watched all of the games - Joe's weaknesses when he came into the league are still his weaknesses with virtually no improvement in those areas at all. He still often gets confused, he still uses the dump off far too often, he still cannot read the field, he frequently falls back onto bad mechanics, he holds onto the bar far too long, and he abandons the pocket often far earlier than he needs too.

[oldno82]

I still think Joe is a good quarterback and that we really don't know how good he could be because of Cam being a control freak with the offense. If we give Joe more latitude to call plays and check off and run an offense for which he is better suited (perhaps a West Coast offense) and THEN he fails, I think we'll have at least given him a chance to be 'elite'. Right now we don't know and we won't know as long as Cam has his arms wrapped around the offense as much as he does now.

 

Joe's critics used to say he couldn't throw over the middle, he couldn't throw against the Cover 2, etc. He proved a lot of them to be wrong on those counts this year.

[geo]

I still think Joe is a good quarterback and that we really don't know how good he could be because of Cam being a control freak with the offense. If we give Joe more latitude to call plays and check off and run an offense for which he is better suited (perhaps a West Coast offense) and THEN he fails, I think we'll have at least given him a chance to be 'elite'. Right now we don't know and we won't know as long as Cam has his arms wrapped around the offense as much as he does now.

 

Joe's critics used to say he couldn't throw over the middle, he couldn't throw against the Cover 2, etc. He proved a lot of them to be wrong on those counts this year.

Agreed.

 

And when Cams runninggame and the OL fails to run blocking and in pass protections, and that we even more than in 2008-09 lacked the deep threat.. (at least Clayton and DW did something sometimes when they were healthy), and our defense is regressing and still we are a winning team, that tells me something about Joe.. We did win more games this season thanks to Joe not the other way around.

[thundercleetz]

Not always, maybe not you but some people are saying that since Joe is better than anyone we had so far that we should be happy with what we have. I dont agree, I would like to have a good QB not just 'good for us' and I do not think we have one. Joe isn't close to the QB that anyone on your list is IMO.

 

The numbers would suggest differently... and those QBs have much better weapons than Joe does.

 

Cam's simple game plan is to protect his QB who often cannot think or find targets IMO. I really think if they opened the offense up and unleashed Joe like most people seem to want that his flaws would be magnified. I'm not going to argue an goofy stat like QB rating in regards to how a QB is doing.

 

If it was this easy, why doesn't every team in the league do this with their QB? Why couldn't Boller or any other of our QBs post a 90+ QB rating? I am sorry, I do not buy this at all. Sure, stats do not tell the whole story but a three year body of work that compares among the best is no fluke. Why does a QB like Jason Campbell and Mark Sanchez still put up sucky stats with the best run games in the league?

 

Without looking at stats, and instead deciding having watched all of the games - Joe's weaknesses when he came into the league are still his weaknesses with virtually no improvement in those areas at all. He still often gets confused, he still uses the dump off far too often, he still cannot read the field, he frequently falls back onto bad mechanics, he holds onto the bar far too long, and he abandons the pocket often far earlier than he needs too.

 

You certanily could be right, maybe Joe's weaknesses are magnified in such situations. I tend to disagree. From what I see Joe is much more comfortable in a spread offense with multiple receivers, preferably working out of the shotgun. He does still get confused, but even the best QBs do though. I think it's debatble whether or not he can "read the field" when most of Cam's routes take 5 seconds to develop with our dirt slow receivers and Joe is running for his ass after 2 seconds. You are right, Joe does hold onto the ball too long and his mechanics do get sloppy at times. However, his mechanics were very good down the stretch, and I think Zorn really helped with the mechanics. The bottom line, a lot of this stuff is fixable.

 

Where I think Joe really improved is his decision making. Last year and his rookie year Joe would make a couple of boneheaded throws a game, he did not do that this season outside of the Bengals game. He was a very smart decision maker. Flacco really never looks check-down first like he did his rookie year. As stated, Cam's routes took forever to develop, so while it looks like Joe checks down fast at times, nothing was open a good amount of time.

 

I stand by my opinion, Joe would fair much better in a WC offense where he can throw more quick slants and get the ball out of his hands quickly. A guy like Ben holds on to the ball way to long. Obviously Ben's mobility helps him a lot, but he is also helped by Bruce Arians masterful use of routes in his offense. Guys set picks for each other, receivers come back to the QB when the route is finished, guys know how to find open spots in the zone. Cam does not do this with our receivers. QBs like Ben and Rogers do make tough throws, but they have a lot of easy big ones out there because of the route set up.

[Spen]

The numbers would suggest differently... and those QBs have much better weapons than Joe does.

 

I disagree completely with that. Well our weapons were good before they got here and into this offense with this QB.

 

 

 

If it was this easy, why doesn't every team in the league do this with their QB? Why couldn't Boller or any other of our QBs post a 90+ QB rating? I am sorry, I do not buy this at all. Sure, stats do not tell the whole story but a three year body of work that compares among the best is no fluke. Why does a QB like Jason Campbell and Mark Sanchez still put up sucky stats with the best run games in the league?

 

Well first of all Joe isn't awful I just don't think he is anything better than average. If his primary target is open Joe has a great and accurate arm and often gets them the ball. There is no helping some QBs. 2nd, if some of our previous QBs had Ray Rice to throw to as much as Joe does there stats would be better too. And yes I do think teams can create game plans to help a players strengths and hide his weaknesses and I do think Cam did a good job of doing that with Joe.

 

 

You certanily could be right, maybe Joe's weaknesses are magnified in such situations. I tend to disagree. From what I see Joe is much more comfortable in a spread offense with multiple receivers, preferably working out of the shotgun. He does still get confused, but even the best QBs do though. I think it's debatble whether or not he can "read the field" when most of Cam's routes take 5 seconds to develop with our dirt slow receivers and Joe is running for his ass after 2 seconds. You are right, Joe does hold onto the ball too long and his mechanics do get sloppy at times. However, his mechanics were very good down the stretch, and I think Zorn really helped with the mechanics. The bottom line, a lot of this stuff is fixable.

 

Where I think Joe really improved is his decision making. Last year and his rookie year Joe would make a couple of boneheaded throws a game, he did not do that this season outside of the Bengals game. He was a very smart decision maker. Flacco really never looks check-down first like he did his rookie year. As stated, Cam's routes took forever to develop, so while it looks like Joe checks down fast at times, nothing was open a good amount of time.

 

I stand by my opinion, Joe would fair much better in a WC offense where he can throw more quick slants and get the ball out of his hands quickly. A guy like Ben holds on to the ball way to long. Obviously Ben's mobility helps him a lot, but he is also helped by Bruce Arians masterful use of routes in his offense. Guys set picks for each other, receivers come back to the QB when the route is finished, guys know how to find open spots in the zone. Cam does not do this with our receivers. QBs like Ben and Rogers do make tough throws, but they have a lot of easy big ones out there because of the route set up.

 

I do not see Joe being more comfortable in a spread offense. He cannot see, or doesnt even look, around the field now. If it was up to me I'd keep 1 good target and have the rest of the receivers minimum wage ones or rookies.

Joe's mechanics (and decision) making looked pretty suspect to me in the Steelers game. He didnt step into horrible pass he threw to Heap that was easily intercepted. I do not think he made any less boneheaded throws this year than last, he seems pretty consistent on that to me.

I still think Flacco looks check down first more times than not and that leaves a lot of yards on the field.

Yeah all QBs get confused at times but good ones do not as often as Joe does. Most QBs can find targets somewhere when the defense rushes three and give the QB lots of time. Not Joe.

[Spen]

I cannot argue with his stats, they are very good but I think part of that is Cam protecting him and part of it are just how stats can be misleading.

 

You cant do that!!!! Stats dont lie, they might not tell the entire truth, but they dont lie..

 

If you believe that then admit that Elway was better than Unitas because the stats say he is. And they do not lie.

[cravnravn]

If you believe that then admit that Elway was better than Unitas because the stats say he is. And they do not lie.

 

 

If I didnt see Unitas play first hand then you probably would be right with that statement, but the homerism in me wont allow it, Unitas was the greatest to ever lace em up.

[thundercleetz]

Spen, I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree and see what happens. Arguing is pointless, we have both stated our points and no one is saying anything new. I have seen progression in Joe each year, you haven't. The numbers suggest progression. We have different opinions on Cam's offense and its effect on Joe. We will just have to see what happens. I will say this, I believe Joe is much better than an "average" QB. The numbers say that and when comparing him to the rest of the league, it is certainly the case. You probably disagree, but we will just have to see. Spen, I just have one question to ask: if Joe is just average and hasn't progressed since his rookie year, and Cam's offense protects QB's and inflates their stats, why didn't Joe put up these types of numbers in '08 and '09 that he posted in '10? Especially in '09 when he had a much better running game and offensive line.

[Spen]

Spen, I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree and see what happens. Arguing is pointless, we have both stated our points and no one is saying anything new. I have seen progression in Joe each year, you haven't. The numbers suggest progression. We have different opinions on Cam's offense and its effect on Joe. We will just have to see what happens. I will say this, I believe Joe is much better than an "average" QB. The numbers say that and when comparing him to the rest of the league, it is certainly the case. You probably disagree, but we will just have to see. Spen, I just have one question to ask: if Joe is just average and hasn't progressed since his rookie year, and Cam's offense protects QB's and inflates their stats, why didn't Joe put up these types of numbers in '08 and '09 that he posted in '10? Especially in '09 when he had a much better running game and offensive line.

 

I am not sure whether Cam has had game plans to protect his other QBs, I just think he is doing that here. At least I think that's the reason Joe and the offense is being kept on a short leash. I also assume that is why Harbaugh doesn't have a problem with Cam and brought him back.

 

The last two years for Joe have been pretty close. The difference between those and his rookie year to me is largely the emergence of as a dump off target for Joe. Joe passed for 2971 yards his rookie year and 3613 his second year. He also threw the ball to Rice 78 times for 702 yards his second year. (compared to 33 for 273 his rookie season) Thats your difference right there.

 

Yeah we are just going to disagree. With the exception of the first Browns game this season I have seen every game Joe has played and have not really been pleased with his progression. We'll see how it plays out this year.

[geo]

I am not sure whether Cam has had game plans to protect his other QBs, I just think he is doing that here. At least I think that's the reason Joe and the offense is being kept on a short leash. I also assume that is why Harbaugh doesn't have a problem with Cam and brought him back.

 

The last two years for Joe have been pretty close. The difference between those and his rookie year to me is largely the emergence of as a dump off target for Joe. Joe passed for 2971 yards his rookie year and 3613 his second year. He also threw the ball to Rice 78 times for 702 yards his second year. (compared to 33 for 273 his rookie season) Thats your difference right there.

 

Yeah we are just going to disagree. With the exception of the first Browns game this season I have seen every game Joe has played and have not really been pleased with his progression. We'll see how it plays out this year.

 

Oh so now you compare the starter Rice, with what? He was the starting RB in four games in 2008.. Btw all RBs (including QBs) had 708 passing yards in 2008.. 952 in 2009 and 745 in 2010.

 

And Mason and Clayton had 1732 passingyards in Joes rookie year, and 1508 in 2009 and Boldin and Mason had 1639 this year.

 

And the former bengal and ST player KW had 431 passingyards last year and the former Bengal and pro bowler TJ had 398 yards this year.

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.baltimore...,4158594.column

 

The Ravens are acting as if they finished 5-13 instead of 13-5.

 

They've fired offensive line coach John Matsko.

 

They've fired quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn.

 

They've made head coach John Harbaugh more accountable by asking him to be more involved in the offense.

 

Maybe these turn out to be great moves, but the central figure to the problems of a year ago has gone unscathed, and that's offensive coordinator Cam Cameron.

 

How is he going to fix this mess?

Edited February 1, 2011 by deeshopper
Can not post full article

[oldno82]

Preston made a lot of good points in that article. And, just for the record, he's far from being my favorite reporter for the Ravens.