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varaven45

Asomaugh (sp?)

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Its way too early to speculate on this guy's destination but I was listening to John Clayton who suggested the Ravens would be a strong suitor.

I dont see it though I would love it. On concern if we dont pursue him, the Jets probably will (they are probably not going to resign Cromartie according to ESPN's Greenie and Golic). Could you imagine the Jets with Namdi and Revis ? Holy crap !

 

Knowing that, I would love to see us pursue him but just cant see it happening. It would certanly help lock down our CB position for years.

 

Any serious thoughts ?

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Sure its a serious thought, but the bottom line is going to be cost, Ngata is going to carry a 12.5 millino hit himself..If they can make the numbers work in the office, then I say go for it..Thats a franchise player on O and could be 2 franchise players on the D side with Ngata & Osmawa, or whatever his name is.

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Lets hope that Pagano really lobbies for the guy. Players supposedly love Pagano, so hopefully he had a good relationship with Asomaugh when he coached him in Oakland. I truly believe that Asomaugh would turn this defense back into an elite one.

 

Ditto!

He would turn the D into Elite. To get to the Super Bowl the Ravens have to run through great QB's in Brady, Manning ,Whatshisname ect. Then they might meet an Aaron Rodgers in the Super Bowl. Got to have a true #1 shut down CB. That would lead to more sacks too.

Don't forget...if Ed goes then that secondary gets real weak.

 

This would be an excellent move.

 

The bad news...I see no way the Ravens spend the dough that he will command....but you can dream.

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Lets hope that Pagano really lobbies for the guy. Players supposedly love Pagano, so hopefully he had a good relationship with Asomaugh when he coached him in Oakland. I truly believe that Asomaugh would turn this defense back into an elite one.

 

Finally,somebody with some sense. At the risk of of being self serving, I think we should pursue this guy. I am tired of the periodic swiss cheese pass D the past few seasons - see Buffalo game last season. I say if we can get him, get er done.

 

:gorave: :thumbup:

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We have had those D's over the last decade. I think while shoring up the D to keep them solid you have to make the O go.

 

I couldn't agree more. Our corners played pretty well. I think our top priorities are OT, OLB, and C in that order.

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You know what, why not, let's also go out and get Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, and Polomalu. Let's pursue these guys too!

 

Honestly....be real and look at our history. The FA acquisitions that we have highly touted over and over just don't pan out. We need to build through the draft. We need to keep the team relatively young and foster and environment of constant competition and improvement. We don't need vets that get fat and happy. We need to get youth in here, maximize their potential and move them just before their "bell curve" begins to swing down. Guys like Ray and Ed should be the only exceptions. Honestly, as much as I love Heap, etc. We should move guys like them and get a return on investment while we can.

 

Philly, NE, Indy, Pitt, and GB all do this. It's hard to argue the results those teams are getting.

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You know what, why not, let's also go out and get Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, and Polomalu. Let's pursue these guys too!

 

Honestly....be real and look at our history. The FA acquisitions that we have highly touted over and over just don't pan out. We need to build through the draft. We need to keep the team relatively young and foster and environment of constant competition and improvement. We don't need vets that get fat and happy. We need to get youth in here, maximize their potential and move them just before their "bell curve" begins to swing down. Guys like Ray and Ed should be the only exceptions. Honestly, as much as I love Heap, etc. We should move guys like them and get a return on investment while we can.

 

Philly, NE, Indy, Pitt, and GB all do this. It's hard to argue the results those teams are getting.

 

Building through the draft is all fine and dandy if you have a lot of picks, we simply do not. There is no reason why you cannot build both through the draft and free agency. You don't think the guys Ozzie targets in free agency may have been guys he targeted in the draft when they came out? And what players has Pittsburgh traded and gotten draft picks for? They let the guys who they can survive without walk, and they re-sign the guys they need. Same with Indy. And Philly trades and builds through the draft, but they have had some stud free agent pick-ups over the years that they have tried to get to put them over the top (TO, Kearse, Vick, Samuels). You say it's hard to argue with the results these teams have posted, tell me, how has our record compared to Philly, GB, and Pitt over the past three years? We are right up there with them. It is not like we are doing terrible.

 

In short, I think the point is if we want to win the Super Bowl we need to get better at drafting and better at signing players who fit our system. Pittsburgh has been successful because they have drafted stud players. They get a Pro-Bowl linebacker like Woodley in the second round, we get linebackers like Paul Kruger, Dan Cody, and Sergio Kindle (although Kruger is slowly turning into a solid starter). They have drafted studs in the past few draft like Pouncey, Hood, Wallace, and Mendenhall. All Pro-Bowl calibur players. Our past two draft classes have been fairly weak. The fact is that we need to get better at drafting.

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Building through the draft is all fine and dandy if you have a lot of picks, we simply do not. There is no reason why you cannot build both through the draft and free agency. You don't think the guys Ozzie targets in free agency may have been guys he targeted in the draft when they came out? And what players has Pittsburgh traded and gotten draft picks for? They let the guys who they can survive without walk, and they re-sign the guys they need. Same with Indy. And Philly trades and builds through the draft, but they have had some stud free agent pick-ups over the years that they have tried to get to put them over the top (TO, Kearse, Vick, Samuels). You say it's hard to argue with the results these teams have posted, tell me, how has our record compared to Philly, GB, and Pitt over the past three years? We are right up there with them. It is not like we are doing terrible.

 

In short, I think the point is if we want to win the Super Bowl we need to get better at drafting and better at signing players who fit our system. Pittsburgh has been successful because they have drafted stud players. They get a Pro-Bowl linebacker like Woodley in the second round, we get linebackers like Paul Kruger, Dan Cody, and Sergio Kindle (although Kruger is slowly turning into a solid starter). They have drafted studs in the past few draft like Pouncey, Hood, Wallace, and Mendenhall. All Pro-Bowl calibur players. Our past two draft classes have been fairly weak. The fact is that we need to get better at drafting.

 

Well, to start, we don't have many picks because they have been routinely traded away. Eventually when you keep robbing Peter to pay Paul you have to bite the bullet and pay Peter back as well. This year, we need to bite the bullet and limit our FA pick ups to role players and guys that won't cost us draft picks.

 

Pittsburgh get's what they can out of players, they don't over contract them in terms of years, and then they "draft" their replacement instead of going after a FA. What Pitt does better than we do is develop their young talent. Their dedicated to developing that talent. See Harrison, he was on our practice squad for christ sakes! We need a commitment to developing young players and fostering a competitive environment of perform or move on. The minute guys like Porter and Law thought they were bigger than the team and their performance slipped, the teams moved on, and both of them won Super Bowls.

 

Both Pitt and Indy and for the most part NE have avoided picking up the big FA, they've drafted young hungry talent and unleashed them on the field. All three have won Super Bowls. Funny thing, when NE went away from the formula, they lost their Super Bowl, but they were still there. Now as for Philly, yes they have picked up some players, but they haven't given up picks to get the players. We have. That's the difference. While Philly hasn't won a Super Bowl, their appearance is more recent than our last.

 

Part of drafting better is having more picks to use. It can be a crap shoot, the greater amount of picks we have the greater chance we having of hitting someone worth keeping. I won't argue with our drafting ability, it has definitely fallen off the map the last few years. As I've stated before, that's because Oz keeps trying to hit the homerun. We need some base hitters and some guys to hit for average ya know?

 

Lastly our record has compared well to Philly, GB, and Pitt. What has not compared well is the Super Bowl appearances. In the NFL the teams are separated by a very fine line. Every team is good and every team prepares well. It's the team that works 200% harder to be 2% better that goes to the big game. We need to be 2% better, and that includes making wiser decisions in the offseason. I'm not saying don't bring in FA's, I'm saying stay away from the one's that think they're bigger than the game and the ones that will cost you draft picks or a very steep salary cap hit.

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Well, to start, we don't have many picks because they have been routinely traded away. Eventually when you keep robbing Peter to pay Paul you have to bite the bullet and pay Peter back as well. This year, we need to bite the bullet and limit our FA pick ups to role players and guys that won't cost us draft picks.

 

Pittsburgh get's what they can out of players, they don't over contract them in terms of years, and then they "draft" their replacement instead of going after a FA. What Pitt does better than we do is develop their young talent. Their dedicated to developing that talent. See Harrison, he was on our practice squad for christ sakes! We need a commitment to developing young players and fostering a competitive environment of perform or move on. The minute guys like Porter and Law thought they were bigger than the team and their performance slipped, the teams moved on, and both of them won Super Bowls.

 

Very good post yager! I agree with a lot of it. The only part that I really disagree with is the developing players. For ever James Harrison there is a Bart Scott, Kelly Gregg, Dannell Ellerbe, Ed Hartwell, Adalius Thomas or Jared Gaither (yes, for as lazy as Gaither is he is a very good football player and we could certainly use him). We have had more than our fair share of practice squad players turn into solid starters for us. And we have let the guys go that we did not need. By the way, James Harrison was on our practice squad for all of about a week, the majority of the time he was a representative for our team in NFL Europe. He never really got to practice with us or be at our facilities.

 

Sure, Pittsburgh does a great job of getting a lot out of its young guys, but I believe that is more so from drafting the right guys as opposed to actually developing them. Their environment is no more competitive than ours, if a guy is going to play, he’s going to prove he can play himself. What happened to early picks from the past three drafts like Limas Sweed, Kraig Urbik, Keenan Lewis, and Bruce Davis? We didn’t see much of Jason Worilds , the Steelers second round pick, this year either.

 

And who have we over extended on our team? Pittsburgh re-signed Harrison, we re-signed Suggs. We tag Ngata, they tag Woodley. They re-up Polamalu, we re-up Reed. James Farrior is still starting at MLB, Ray Lewis is still starting for us. They let Joey Porter walk, we let Bart Scott and Adalius Thomas walk. We have done just as good of a job of letting players walk as they have.

 

Both Pitt and Indy and for the most part NE have avoided picking up the big FA, they've drafted young hungry talent and unleashed them on the field. All three have won Super Bowls. Funny thing, when NE went away from the formula, they lost their Super Bowl, but they were still there. Now as for Philly, yes they have picked up some players, but they haven't given up picks to get the players. We have. That's the difference. While Philly hasn't won a Super Bowl, their appearance is more recent than our last.

 

Part of drafting better is having more picks to use. It can be a crap shoot, the greater amount of picks we have the greater chance we having of hitting someone worth keeping. I won't argue with our drafting ability, it has definitely fallen off the map the last few years. As I've stated before, that's because Oz keeps trying to hit the homerun. We need some base hitters and some guys to hit for average ya know?

 

This is where I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem is not developing our talent, it having the draft picks at our disposal. I don’t disagree with the Anquan Boldin trade, nor do I disagree with the Josh Wilson trade, I think these are very good trades. Where I think Ozzie has gone wrong over the past few seasons is not trying to hit the homerun, but making stupid free agent pick-ups that make us ineligible to receive compensation picks. Take the 2009 free agency for example: we let Bart Scott, Jason Brown, and Jim Leonhard all walk for big free agent deals. Especially with Scott or Brown, we could have definitely received a third round compensation pick. So what does Ozzie do? He signs freaking LJ Smith, who catches a grand total of two passes for us, and because of the in-and-out rule we are ineligible for any compensation picks.

 

This is the key point here: The Steelers and Pats don’t sign washed-up free agents to replace players that have walked, they use late round draft picks or UDFAs thus allowing them to receive compensation picks. Look at the amount of compensation picks the Steelers and Pats have had the past three years, look at ours. Sure the Steelers and Pats have whiffed on a lot of third, fourth and fifth round picks, but since they have so many they have hit on a lot as well. This is where Ozzie needs to improve.

 

Lastly our record has compared well to Philly, GB, and Pitt. What has not compared well is the Super Bowl appearances. In the NFL the teams are separated by a very fine line. Every team is good and every team prepares well. It's the team that works 200% harder to be 2% better that goes to the big game. We need to be 2% better, and that includes making wiser decisions in the offseason. I'm not saying don't bring in FA's, I'm saying stay away from the one's that think they're bigger than the game and the ones that will cost you draft picks or a very steep salary cap hit.

 

I agree, and I think that starts with getting rid of the players like that already on our team, namely Derrick Mason. While I do think Nnamdi Asomugha would make our defense elite again, I am not sure if I want to give a Reavis-like deal to a 30-year old CB. You’re right, it would tie us down.

 

Even with the few things Ozzie does wrong, I still think we are right up there with the teams you mentioned: Philly, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, and Indy. Over the past three years our record compares very favorable with these teams and we have won more playoff games than Philly and New England, and just as much as Green Bay. We are very close to the Super Bowl, we are right where we want to be as a team. A good draft and free agency class this year and we are right back in Super Bowl contention.

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Thunder

 

If you notice the players you have us developing are basically on D. Gaither is the only offensive player and he was scheduled to be a 1st round player so it was not a huge reach. We are very poor at developing O talent. Even when we have it they don't let them play like Jason Brown and Casey Rabach. Maybe it is a fact that they are so use to not having talent on that side they stick with the devil you know. If in fact that is the case it is a defeatist attitude. This season they only really let their rookie TE's play when Todd went down. Dickson stumbled some but he should never have been thrown into the fire like that. He should have gotten touches far sooner.

 

On D they find gems at LB all the time. They are so good at it. That is why I would never let a guy hold you hostage for a contact.

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Thunder

 

If you notice the players you have us developing are basically on D. Gaither is the only offensive player and he was scheduled to be a 1st round player so it was not a huge reach. We are very poor at developing O talent. Even when we have it they don't let them play like Jason Brown and Casey Rabach. Maybe it is a fact that they are so use to not having talent on that side they stick with the devil you know. If in fact that is the case it is a defeatist attitude. This season they only really let their rookie TE's play when Todd went down. Dickson stumbled some but he should never have been thrown into the fire like that. He should have gotten touches far sooner.

 

On D they find gems at LB all the time. They are so good at it. That is why I would never let a guy hold you hostage for a contact.

 

I did notice that. The UDFA haven't been there on offense, but guys like Jason Brown, Marshall Yanda, Ben Grubbs, Michael Oher, Ovie Mughelli, Jared Gaither, LeRon McClain, and of course, Ray Rice and Joe Flacco have all been very solid players for us. Yanda, Brown, Grubbs, Gaither, McClain and Rice have all given us Pro Bowl-calibur play at points in their career. We have been very solid developing the offensive line and runningbacks, it is the wide receivers and tight-ends that are missing. David Reed, Marcus Smith, Justin Harper, Yamon Figurs, Demetrius Williams, Mark Clayon, Devard Darling, and Clarence Moore, those have been all of our wide receiver draft picks since 2004. Not one of these players has turned into an impact player of any type (although the jury is still out on Reed and I do like his skill set very much). Ozzie simply has not been able to deliver on drafting us a receiver. The Steelers on the other hand have drafted Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Emmanual Sanders, and Antonio Brown (and Limas Sweed) since 2006. All speed guys that fit their system very well. They did not initially ask too much out of these guys and let them ease into their roles, with Holmes and Wallace becoming Pro Bowl-calibur players and Sanders and Brown look very promising.

 

This goes back to your point on how we mishandled Dickson. He most definitely should have gotten more reps earlier in the season. Not only that, we were using him in a baffling way. In most of the sets he would come in he would be lined up on the outside as an X receiver matched up against a corner. Why would Cam do this? Flex him as a slot and match him against a linebacker. Pitta should have most definitely gotten more reps too. I do think both guys have a lot of promise though.

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Yeah I would not put reed in that list. As a later pick in this last draft he has been very solid. I would only expect him to be better next yr. I do think the FO is gun shy about WR's. You are missing TT on your list. The past 2 drafts have been so WR laden you would have to be a dolt to miss. We drafted Reed and Smith.

The have been pretty good with drafted players on O. I would say that Cousins is a bust. They should let that one go this season. Maybe Harewood can maximize that stud body if his.

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3 yrs ago we could have gotten a return on Heap. Now he is valueless. I think pass rushing DT should be added to your list.

Try 4 or 5 years ago when he resigned! What would be the point then, that we knew he would suck in 2007+2008?

 

Heap now had his best season since 2005-2006. 2007/IR + 2008 sigh, 2009 decent, 2010 solid.

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David Reed, Marcus Smith, Justin Harper, Yamon Figurs, Demetrius Williams, Mark Clayon, Devard Darling, and Clarence Moore, those have been all of our wide receiver draft picks since 2004. Not one of these players has turned into an impact player of any type (although the jury is still out on Reed and I do like his skill set very much). Ozzie simply has not been able to deliver on drafting us a receiver. The Steelers on the other hand have drafted Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Emmanual Sanders, and Antonio Brown (and Limas Sweed) since 2006. All speed guys that fit their system very well. They did not initially ask too much out of these guys and let them ease into their roles, with Holmes and Wallace becoming Pro Bowl-calibur players and Sanders and Brown look very promising.

 

This goes back to your point on how we mishandled Dickson. He most definitely should have gotten more reps earlier in the season. Not only that, we were using him in a baffling way. In most of the sets he would come in he would be lined up on the outside as an X receiver matched up against a corner. Why would Cam do this? Flex him as a slot and match him against a linebacker. Pitta should have most definitely gotten more reps too. I do think both guys have a lot of promise though.

 

Reading your listing of WRs we've drafted makes me want to puke. With the possible exception of Reed whose value is still unknown and Clayton who was only average, what a bunch of losers we've drafted.

 

And as has been said, Dickson and Pitta should have gotten much more work.

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Very good post yager! I agree with a lot of it. The only part that I really disagree with is the developing players. For ever James Harrison there is a Bart Scott, Kelly Gregg, Dannell Ellerbe, Ed Hartwell, Adalius Thomas or Jared Gaither (yes, for as lazy as Gaither is he is a very good football player and we could certainly use him). We have had more than our fair share of practice squad players turn into solid starters for us. And we have let the guys go that we did not need. By the way, James Harrison was on our practice squad for all of about a week, the majority of the time he was a representative for our team in NFL Europe. He never really got to practice with us or be at our facilities.

 

Sure, Pittsburgh does a great job of getting a lot out of its young guys, but I believe that is more so from drafting the right guys as opposed to actually developing them. Their environment is no more competitive than ours, if a guy is going to play, he’s going to prove he can play himself. What happened to early picks from the past three drafts like Limas Sweed, Kraig Urbik, Keenan Lewis, and Bruce Davis? We didn’t see much of Jason Worilds , the Steelers second round pick, this year either.

 

And who have we over extended on our team? Pittsburgh re-signed Harrison, we re-signed Suggs. We tag Ngata, they tag Woodley. They re-up Polamalu, we re-up Reed. James Farrior is still starting at MLB, Ray Lewis is still starting for us. They let Joey Porter walk, we let Bart Scott and Adalius Thomas walk. We have done just as good of a job of letting players walk as they have.

 

 

 

This is where I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem is not developing our talent, it having the draft picks at our disposal. I don’t disagree with the Anquan Boldin trade, nor do I disagree with the Josh Wilson trade, I think these are very good trades. Where I think Ozzie has gone wrong over the past few seasons is not trying to hit the homerun, but making stupid free agent pick-ups that make us ineligible to receive compensation picks. Take the 2009 free agency for example: we let Bart Scott, Jason Brown, and Jim Leonhard all walk for big free agent deals. Especially with Scott or Brown, we could have definitely received a third round compensation pick. So what does Ozzie do? He signs freaking LJ Smith, who catches a grand total of two passes for us, and because of the in-and-out rule we are ineligible for any compensation picks.

 

This is the key point here: The Steelers and Pats don’t sign washed-up free agents to replace players that have walked, they use late round draft picks or UDFAs thus allowing them to receive compensation picks. Look at the amount of compensation picks the Steelers and Pats have had the past three years, look at ours. Sure the Steelers and Pats have whiffed on a lot of third, fourth and fifth round picks, but since they have so many they have hit on a lot as well. This is where Ozzie needs to improve.

 

 

 

I agree, and I think that starts with getting rid of the players like that already on our team, namely Derrick Mason. While I do think Nnamdi Asomugha would make our defense elite again, I am not sure if I want to give a Reavis-like deal to a 30-year old CB. You’re right, it would tie us down.

 

Even with the few things Ozzie does wrong, I still think we are right up there with the teams you mentioned: Philly, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, and Indy. Over the past three years our record compares very favorable with these teams and we have won more playoff games than Philly and New England, and just as much as Green Bay. We are very close to the Super Bowl, we are right where we want to be as a team. A good draft and free agency class this year and we are right back in Super Bowl contention.

 

I would have liked us to have traded guys like Hartwell and Thomas before they got away with little in return. Perhaps even a guy like Heap. I love Heap, don't get me wrong, but he's not a guy that we couldn't get similar production out of from another. I know it might be heresy, but I think that the Ravens should have gone with Scott over Lewis. Even with Lewis' leadership and lack of injury history, I would have wanted the younger guy extended. Having said that, Lewis is working out just fine, and I do love the guy. As far as Reed goes, he's the one guy I would have kept and extended, not sure we could have seen some of his injuries coming. I would be very upset if we gave Reed a long term deal. With his production last year, I think he's proved that he can play, however I would give nothing over 2 years.

 

I know nothing of the "in and out" rule, so I cannot comment on what happens in those situations. Being that we have lost so many draft picks over the past 3 years, I think it would be wise if we began to work trades etc that brought draft picks back to this team. This includes trading down in the draft. I'll be very upset if we trade up for any reason in this draft. We simply cannot afford to do so.

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