cravnravn Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) 1st 5 games of the season Flacco went 117 of 182 for 1289 yards 9 TD's vs 5 Picks Last 5 games Flacco's numbers have diminished somewhat throwing 102 out of 153 for 1166 yards with 3 TD's vs 3 INT's. *All five of our losses have come against teams that are/were in 1st place. Edited November 23, 2009 by cravnravn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Maybe this is Joe's soph slump, eh ? Maybe he just needs experience/time and a little patience from us all. Or perhaps if he had the same toys as Favre: Shiancoe, Rice, Adrian Peterson, Harvin. Imagine Joe with that and the OL? I suspect its both. He needs time, toys and talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Max put it best in a previous topic, when Clayton and Washington cannot beat Indy's scrubs at corner, all the defense has to do is double Mason and cover Ray out of the backfield. Joe had all day to throw yesterday, and you could clearly see Joe was going through his progressions, guys like Clayton, Washington, and Heap were not getting open. Ozzie needs to get Joe some new targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 It is amazing that our WR's cannot get seperation, even the 45 yarder to Mason, he was covered like a blanket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceEight Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 It is amazing that our WR's cannot get seperation, even the 45 yarder to Mason, he was covered like a blanket.Mason was wide open on his first dropped pass. And, Cleet, Washington was open quite a bit yesterday. I don't know whether Joe doesn't trust him or just looks at Mason/Rice too much and quickly, but he missed Washington open maybe a half dozen times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinmaniac52 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Pointing time already? Keep in mind that Joe is still very young in football age. Last season all he really did was hand the ball off, this year he took a step forward. Soph slump? I don't think so, your seeing mistake that a young QB would make. This thing ain't done yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Pointing time already? Sometimes its needed..We are in a funk..6 times in the red zone and no offensive TD's come on now, thats not us.Ever since the Minny game we have went into a offensive funk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Its clear that both the Ravens and Joe are "average". What's key is this organization realizing the fine line between winning and losing, and between being an average team and a playoff team. If we had won JUST 1 of the lost games (NE, Cincy (2), Indy and Minny), then we are in the hunt. Last year (w/no expecations/pressure to win) we won many close games (yes, we lost a few too -Steelers). The point - a few more toys - playmaker WRs and TE - make us a better than average team. This organization cannot squander the opportunity Flacco brings this team the next several years. We sqaundered the "D" for several years and the D is now going to become good or better than average. The D still has big holes and needs a fortified secondary, a young Ray Lewis (not that he can be replaced), and a stealth pass rusher. But the O has got to get a legit WR, someone to go vertical. Ozzie, Harbs and Cam need to get it together ! BTW- why didnt we consider Chris Chambers? Matt Cassell and he lit up the Steelers yesterday. Just saying. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutsideRzAcE Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I don't know that we didn't consider Chambers. The Chiefs picked up Chambers off of waivers. They had 1 or 2 wins at the time, and probably had a higher waiver priority then us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 VA, No way Flacco is just average, average is Jason Campbell. Flacco was having a great game before the pick. It is not Joe's fault that his receivers cannot get open or that the offensive line cannot get a push on the goaline. Joe was driving us up and down the field. Mason was wide open on his first dropped pass. And, Cleet, Washington was open quite a bit yesterday. I don't know whether Joe doesn't trust him or just looks at Mason/Rice too much and quickly, but he missed Washington open maybe a half dozen times. I did see something different with the offense yesterday that I had not seen before, Washington was lined up on the outside while Clayton was in the slot. Maybe that had something to do with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Flacco was having a great game before the pick. It is not Joe's fault that his receivers cannot get open or that the offensive line cannot get a push on the goaline. Joe was driving us up and down the field. I wasnt basing on yesterdays performance but the last 5 games vs the first 5, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I wasnt basing on yesterdays performance but the last 5 games vs the first 5, I was refering to VA's comment. Force, you were right about Washington. Here is what Joe had to say: "I didn’t really think the guy that intercepted it was going to drop out the way he did," a surprised Flacco said. "It was a bad job by me. I might have been able to get Kelley [Washington] on the outside. I kind of rushed to get the ball snapped and made a bad decision." It looks like Joe got a little too confortable with throwing the ball to Ray. In all honestly though, if Joe gets that ball out a second quicker Ray catches the ball on the run with a lot of room to run with. If Joe had predetermined he was going to throw the ball to Ray, he should have fired it out. Instead he waited and threw off of his back foot. It might have been a bad decision, but the INT was probably cause by poor mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 VA, No way Flacco is just average, average is Jason Campbell. Flacco was having a great game before the pick. It is not Joe's fault that his receivers cannot get open or that the offensive line cannot get a push on the goaline. Joe was driving us up and down the field. I did see something different with the offense yesterday that I had not seen before, Washington was lined up on the outside while Clayton was in the slot. Maybe that had something to do with it... Joe may not be an average QB but his performance and offense are very average. In essence, that keeps him average. There is no doubt, he has incredible poise, character and upside. He just needs time, talent and proper direction from Cam to step up to the next echelon of QBs. For whats its worth, my son recently spoke to a Delaware alum and sports medicine professional who tended to Joe a few years ago (senior year). He said Joe is a very humble person, a real man of honor and integrity. I love this kid and feel he's a budding NFL star and a fine example that our young people can look up to. stat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Its clear that both the Ravens and Joe are "average". What's key is this organization realizing the fine line between winning and losing, and between being an average team and a playoff team. If we had won JUST 1 of the lost games (NE, Cincy (2), Indy and Minny), then we are in the hunt. Last year (w/no expecations/pressure to win) we won many close games (yes, we lost a few too -Steelers).The point - a few more toys - playmaker WRs and TE - make us a better than average team. This organization cannot squander the opportunity Flacco brings this team the next several years. We sqaundered the "D" for several years and the D is now going to become good or better than average. The D still has big holes and needs a fortified secondary, a young Ray Lewis (not that he can be replaced), and a stealth pass rusher. But the O has got to get a legit WR, someone to go vertical. Ozzie, Harbs and Cam need to get it together ! BTW- why didnt we consider Chris Chambers? Matt Cassell and he lit up the Steelers yesterday. Just saying. Not really, hardly that different - Close game we won; the second Browns game and the Cowboys game and the playoffgame vs Titans.. Including playoffs 3 win in close games and we lost four of the close game.. 3x Steelers and the first Titans game. And at this point last season, 6-4.. 5 easy wins, 1-2 in the close games and two disasters vs Clots and G-men compared to now 4 easy wins, 1-4 in close games, and then our second defeat to the bungles was hardly close neither in the same category like last years defeats to Indy and Giants. At this point the first 10 games-schedule seems to be harder this season than last.. Bungles makes the difference. However the last six games seems easier this season.. Steelers is not really the same team like last year not the same dominating team..and GB, Lions and Bears this year is nothing compared to Dallas, Eagles and Skins from last year, finally Raiders will be Raiders, and any given sunday. I still think if we can beat Steelers once or twice 10-6 or even 11-5 should be possible. However we need to win these kind of games, it better start this week! Btw I agree we need to get this elite reciever.. FA? I now people are telling me next season is the year for great recievers in the draft. Still I really like to draft a new C-Mac in the 1. round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinmaniac52 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 If we had won JUST 1 of the lost games (NE, Cincy (2), Indy and Minny), I missed field goal and 2 games where the refs won the games! Sorry but average teams don't hold Manning to one TD in the air and 2 INTs.We failed in the redzone. The Pats game Brady and Bill telling the refs when to throw the flags! The refs making up rules in the Cats first game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 This season has been a tale of two halves. The first half of this season our offense was kicking butt and our defense sucked, not in the second half it has been reversed. We just need this thing to come together. It is getting close, yesterday our offense put up 354 yards with an almost even run-pass ration of 31-35. We just need to convert in the redzone, something we were doing with ease in the first half of the season, but something that has become more difficult as of late. One of these games something is going to roll our way. Pittsburgh is struggling just as much as us. They have the number one defense in the league and a very good passing, so we certainly have our work cut out for us. But they are vulnerable against the pass with Polamalu out, and if we held against Manning's passing attack, why not against the Steelers and a banged up Roethlisberger? It will be a tough matchup, but certainly winnable, maybe even more so than yesterday's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spen Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 In the long run I am not worried about the offense. Flacco may be having a bit of a sophomore slump, but he'll learn from it. Ray Rice is the real deal and the time Flacco and him have together this year will help next year. The team, while by no accounts a great one, has found ways to lose games. At times it has been offensive problems, at times defensive, and at time special teams. A better CB (even one), another good WR, or even a different kicker from the beginning of the season and perhaps this whole season has a different feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'm still inclined to blame play-calling and WRs before Flacco - just the way I was for guys like Boller and the like for many years. Maybe it's partially Joe's fault, but Cam seems to have Joe into a very quick, basic set of reads... "1-Mason, 2-Heap, 3-Check down" The end. Even when he has protection, on most plays he seems very much focused on who he 'wants' to throw to before a play even begins. And his reliance on the check down - while it has worked at times - is becoming too much. But again, much of it to me has to do with play-calling. Last week and this week, I saw multiple times where every single receiver went downfield and outside... very much to open the middle for Rice to 'do his magic'... but it can't be every damn play. No reason 3rd and 8 or 10 that we send everyone 20 yards downfield. Further, I think it's about time we realized - as someone else mentioned - that our running game is just as strong (if not stronger) out of the spread than it is out of a 'heavy' set. Every team we've lost to this season has taught us this same lesson: put a lot of guys on the field to catch passes and they get harder to cover. It makes no sense to me why we see sets with Mason and Clayton as the only guys actually running routes, while Heap, Smith, McClain, whoever are all back blocking. We need to put 4 or 5 guys in the field of play as targets for Joe on almost every play. Our running game works just as well and our passing game will open up... no way a defense can cover 4 or 5 guys, even if they're just average... why else are the Colts so successful with rookies? They have the plan, not some magic lucky formula for finding receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'm still inclined to blame play-calling and WRs before Flacco - just the way I was for guys like Boller and the like for many years. Maybe it's partially Joe's fault, but Cam seems to have Joe into a very quick, basic set of reads... "1-Mason, 2-Heap, 3-Check down" The end. Even when he has protection, on most plays he seems very much focused on who he 'wants' to throw to before a play even begins. And his reliance on the check down - while it has worked at times - is becoming too much. But again, much of it to me has to do with play-calling. Last week and this week, I saw multiple times where every single receiver went downfield and outside... very much to open the middle for Rice to 'do his magic'... but it can't be every damn play. No reason 3rd and 8 or 10 that we send everyone 20 yards downfield. Further, I think it's about time we realized - as someone else mentioned - that our running game is just as strong (if not stronger) out of the spread than it is out of a 'heavy' set. Every team we've lost to this season has taught us this same lesson: put a lot of guys on the field to catch passes and they get harder to cover. It makes no sense to me why we see sets with Mason and Clayton as the only guys actually running routes, while Heap, Smith, McClain, whoever are all back blocking. We need to put 4 or 5 guys in the field of play as targets for Joe on almost every play. Our running game works just as well and our passing game will open up... no way a defense can cover 4 or 5 guys, even if they're just average... why else are the Colts so successful with rookies? They have the plan, not some magic lucky formula for finding receivers. DC, Great post ! A few thoughts on Flacco and the O. Flacco doesnt have a good enough supporting cast. Case in point:Favre has an allworld cast and has thrown waht 3 ints this yr. Last yr, with a serviceable O, he was an int machine. Joe needs toys ! On the running game: we are underutilizing our talent. Rice is getting his touches but we arent pounding McLain and Mcgahee enough. Remember last year, esp the Dallas game ? We arent using the running game effectively and efficently. We need it on Sunday against the Squealers !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutsideRzAcE Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 On the running game: we are underutilizing our talent. Rice is getting his touches but we arent pounding McLain and Mcgahee enough. Remember last year, esp the Dallas game ? We arent using the running game effectively and efficently. We need it on Sunday against the Squealers !!! I remember after the 2nd Steelers game last year the Rust Buckets were in awe of Le'Ron McClain. It's rare for defensive players to give Props to an opposing back (see Ray), but all they were talking about after the game was how hard McClain hit, and how hard he was to bring down. In the championship game we completely abandoned McClain as a running back. I don't know if it was due to his ankle injury suffered vs Tennessee or just due to sheer stupidty. At any rate, for weeks I've read posts on this board calling for Cam to unleash the three headed monster attack. I'm jumping on that bandwagon this week, I think we need to give a heavy dose of Le'Ron McClain with some Flacco playaction here or there. Hopefully Polamalu will be out for this game and we don't have to worry about him getting the big pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I remember after the 2nd Steelers game last year the Rust Buckets were in awe of Le'Ron McClain. It's rare for defensive players to give Props to an opposing back (see Ray), but all they were talking about after the game was how hard McClain hit, and how hard he was to bring down. In the championship game we completely abandoned McClain as a running back. I don't know if it was due to his ankle injury suffered vs Tennessee or just due to sheer stupidty. At any rate, for weeks I've read posts on this board calling for Cam to unleash the three headed monster attack. I'm jumping on that bandwagon this week, I think we need to give a heavy dose of Le'Ron McClain with some Flacco playaction here or there. Hopefully Polamalu will be out for this game and we don't have to worry about him getting the big pick. OutsideRzace: You read my mind about McClain. I distincly remember the Steelers - esp Farrior - praising McClain and how difficult he was to tackle. Maybe if we unleashed McClain and the 3 headed beast we might solve our rushing woes plus take a little pressure off Joe-Lord knows he needs it. Not only that, if we pumped up our runing game back up, it would naturally open our passing game/play action-even with our slightly above average WRs. Hell, what have we got to lose. Mix it up a little, Harbs and Cam !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I think now Joe olny trusts Mason and Rice. This happened by wasting spots on Clayton and Dwil. I think Washington should be starting with Mason. Joe is very quick to check down to Rice. If you play chess and give up a bishop and knight to start the game most people will get their asses kicked. That is what we did coming into the season. It took time for teams to get the tape and draw up the plan but the blueprint for beating the Ravens is tehre and easy to execute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I still think trust is only part of it... there simply aren't many people to throw to when you send 2 guys downfield, keep 2 in to block and then the last guy is Rice... In the Sun's Ravens blog today there were quotes from Freeney saying that he wasn't too disappointed in being shut out of sacks (he and Mathis, even) because of how much help the Ravens were giving Oher and Gaither. Most saw it as a bit of a cop out by Freeney, and it was. But he also made a good point: keep men in to block and that's fewer guys ready to receive. And no receivers means no points. And he was right... if we leave Gaither and Oher to play solo... maybe Freeney gets his sack. But maybe we get our touchdowns thanks to having Heap, Washington, Smith and lord knows who else downfield.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I saw them throw chips a lot but keeping 2 to block all the time is BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 27.2% passer rating If we aren't in the middle of a "sophomore slump" than what is. Over the last 6 weeks Brady Quinn has more TD passes than Flacco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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