Offseason Topic

[thundercleetz]

I think this team is close. One more consistent bat that can hit righties, a starting pitcher (whether it's a new guy or a young guy internally stepping up), and shoring up the bullpen and we are right back in the playoffs. As rocky as last season was, we were still above .500 and in the playoff race in the last two weeks.

 

We have a GREAT core with Manny, Crush, AJ, Wieters, Tillman, and Gausman. Hardy is among the best at SS, Chen and Gonzo are solid starters. So here are a few questions to start the discussion:

 

1. What do we do with Wieters? Wieters provides elite defense but was very disappointing at the plate. Boras is his agent, we might not be able to re-sign both Wieters and Crush. In theory we could trade Wieters, get some solid young pieces, and gain some salary flexibility to make a move or sign Crush long-term.

 

On the flip side we would be selling low on Wieters with his bad year at the plate. Teams know we might not be able to sign Wieters long-term which could be leveraged against us. Is it really that unrealistic to believe Wieters will be able to hit for an .800 OPS like his first year full time? I don't think so. Look at other catchers like Salty and Molina, they didn't hit their best seasons at the plate until late 20s. With his defense if Wieters could get to a .800 OPS we would have the best all around catcher in baseball. It's very realistic.

 

I say don't trade Wieters.

 

2. What to do with JJ Hardy? There are rumblings we are shopping Hardy for pitching help and will move Manny to SS. Unless we get a great deal, risky proposition. Manny is rehabbing reconstructive knee surgery and will not have a full offseason to prepare for SS. While I have no doubt Manny has the ability to be an elite SS, we may be asking too much of him with the injury.

 

However, conversely to Wieters we would be selling Hardy high. Coming off a great offensive and defensive season with a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger to prove it. This being Hardy's last year under contract, we may be able to get a long-term piece for him while getting salary flexibility.

 

3. Who starts second base? I am perfectly fine going with Flaherty and Schoop. Flaherty got a horrible start to last season and inconsistent playing time didn't allow him to get into a groove. Nonetheless Flaherty is a baseball player, will work a count and play solid defense. Schoop on the other hand provides star potential, but is likely to struggle and go through some slumps. We saw Schoop's awesome power potential toward the end of last season. Rotating Schoop in with Flaherty is good competition.

 

Or if we trade Hardy, maybe Schoop is the guy at third. Schoop plays good defense at both positions.

 

Other questions:

Can we sign Crush long-term?

Can we get rid of Markakis' inflated salary?

Which starting pitcher do we target?

[cravnravn]

 

 

1. What do we do with Wieters? Wieters provides elite defense but was very disappointing at the plate. Boras is his agent, we might not be able to re-sign both Wieters and Crush. In theory we could trade Wieters, get some solid young pieces, and gain some salary flexibility to make a move or sign Crush long-term.

 

Weitz is a non issue, he's D alone is worthy of a 300 batting average.

 

WE NEED a #1 on the mound, Ive pimped Price for a good year now, and will continue to do so..He's 28 years old, he's 71-39 as a starter, his only off season was 2011, for the money, and hes going to command alot, he is definitely worth it.

 

Competing with the Sox and Yanks in a bidding war is going to be a given, but hell we offered Texshra just about the same money the Yanks offered, WE CAN DO THIS

[thundercleetz]

 

Weitz is a non issue, he's D alone is worthy of a 300 batting average.

 

WE NEED a #1 on the mound, Ive pimped Price for a good year now, and will continue to do so..He's 28 years old, he's 71-39 as a starter, his only off season was 2011, for the money, and hes going to command alot, he is definitely worth it.

 

Competing with the Sox and Yanks in a bidding war is going to be a given, but hell we offered Texshra just about the same money the Yanks offered, WE CAN DO THIS

I completely agree on Wieters, but if you knew for certain he was going to bolt in free agency, would you still want to keep him? Can we sign Machado, Crush and Wieters all to long-term deals? It's not Wieters offensive abilities that worries me, it's the salary flexibility as a team that makes me single out Wieters as a guy who could he traded.

 

As for Price he would be awesome but I don't think we have the pieces to make it happen. Matt Garza would be an awesome free agent pickup. Only 29, awesome stuff, inning eater and he gets lots of strike outs. Even better he doesn't cost is any draft picks. However we haven't been the team to spend big money in free agency. Garza would be a perfect for as he is comfortable in the AL East.

[Spen]

I like Wieters but I think both Davis and Machado are bigger priorities than he is. There is no hurry for Machado yet because of his age, not that I ever want things to get contentious between him and the team, so I think Davis is the key this season. They have to re-sign him IMO. Great numbers and a good guy.

[papasmurfbell]

I would trade Weiters and Davis now. I don't think they will get either back when they become FA's. Also I think Davis just had his outlier yr and will not be close to this agian. If they make a smart trade it could be like how they pulled jones Sheril and all the rest. They could really stock up on a ton of young talent.

[thundercleetz]

I would trade Weiters and Davis now. I don't think they will get either back when they become FA's. Also I think Davis just had his outlier yr and will not be close to this agian. If they make a smart trade it could be like how they pulled jones Sheril and all the rest. They could really stock up on a ton of young talent.

 

I am split on trading Wieters and Davis. Talent takes lots of time to develop in baseball, and is far from guaranteed. Almost opposite as baseball. Baseball players also have a much longer prime than football. So Wieters and Davis in their late twenties are a low risk for a long-term deal. Davis might have had an outlier year, but from the reports I have read he made good adjustments in his swing and approach, much like Joey Bats a few years ago for the Jays. I feel we are close as a team, real close. IMO we could sign these guys, make a run these next two years, and if it does not work out we can trade these two guys then and still get a good return. We have already signed Jones long-term, I think we are on the verge of something big and Wieters and Davis are a big part of this run.

 

The problem with baseball trades, the risk of return on a trade is just as high as betting on a guy in a long-term contract. Pitchers it's more clear on trading them away as they carry a big risk.

[cravnravn]

You can't trade weitz, he's in the same class as Belanger and etchabarren, they couldn't hit their weight, but the were defensive gems.

[Spen]

You can't trade weitz, he's in the same class as Belanger and etchabarren, they couldn't hit their weight, but the were defensive gems.

 

I think those days are mostly gone. I dont think either would have long careers now.

 

I dont now whether Davis will ever have the same year again, but after years of searching the Orioles had a good bat at first base. He seems like a good guy and a good teammate so I think it makes sense to sign him long term.

 

If they trade him for prospects I know most fans (including the person who proposed it in this very thread) with then bitch about how cheap the team is.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Spen

[papasmurfbell]

 

I am split on trading Wieters and Davis. Talent takes lots of time to develop in baseball, and is far from guaranteed. Almost opposite as baseball. Baseball players also have a much longer prime than football. So Wieters and Davis in their late twenties are a low risk for a long-term deal. Davis might have had an outlier year, but from the reports I have read he made good adjustments in his swing and approach, much like Joey Bats a few years ago for the Jays. I feel we are close as a team, real close. IMO we could sign these guys, make a run these next two years, and if it does not work out we can trade these two guys then and still get a good return. We have already signed Jones long-term, I think we are on the verge of something big and Wieters and Davis are a big part of this run.

 

The problem with baseball trades, the risk of return on a trade is just as high as betting on a guy in a long-term contract. Pitchers it's more clear on trading them away as they carry a big risk.

I don't think either wioll sign here. I see that hoping they will will lead to them leaving with nothing in return. Boras will take them elsewhere.

[papasmurfbell]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9999507

Here is another take.

[thundercleetz]

I don't think either wioll sign here. I see that hoping they will will lead to them leaving with nothing in return. Boras will take them elsewhere.

Well at the very least we'd get two draft picks. But yeah if we couldn't get these guys sign I'd definitely trade them.

[papasmurfbell]

That is why if they don't sign soon you have to make the trade this yr. The value goes down next yr.

[cravnravn]

O's trade Jim Johnson to the A's.

 

Wonder whats up their sleeve?

[GrubberRaven]

Duq thinks he's Billy Beane...

[ForceEight]

I think carting away $10 million in salary they weren't interested in paying is what was up their sleeve. It doesn't cost that much to get a guy with an 89% save percentage over two seasons, regardless of how many saves he had.

[cravnravn]

Freeing up money for price.

[papasmurfbell]

Freeing up money for price.

Have you passed out yet.

[dc.]

Awful move. Money? Maybe. But we were willing to drop 1m on Reimold yesterday. Totally worth it.

 

Can we replace the saves? Maybe. But the innings at large? Questionable. Who is out there? Who do we have? No one.

 

It certainly won't lead us to any big name.

 

Worse, we get a crappy 26yo 2b who has regressed each year and even the As don't want? Just sad.

[papasmurfbell]

There are lots of guys who can get saves. So few are Ravera like. So few deserve the big money.

[GrubberRaven]

They need to sign a consistent bat...and a pitcher...I don't see it happening...they're regressing

[papasmurfbell]

I agree and it isn't shocking to me. They need to trade off the talent they will not be able to sign and push to the future.

[dc.]

It's not the saves. It's 80+ innings on a team without more than one starter that can go 7 every time.

 

Hunter gets saves? Fine. Who pitches the 8th? O'Day? Fine. Who pitches the 7th? Play it out and we get to a significantly worse arm.

 

Meanwhile, I see no signs they will actually spend the money saved - at least not on value - when they throw cash at Reimold and Pearce. JJ was 100x more valuable than those two... You want to talk $? The money from the Os says only 5x.

 

I get the $$ issue (but then, why are the As willing to pay it given their notorious stinginess?) ... But I hate the return and see little sign we will make any move to really say "This is why we need that cash." In other words, this doesn't seem to be Ed Reed vs an entire defensive payroll.

[varaven45]

Yep. I am not opposed to moving JJ except for when we get little in return, as is the case here. Meanwhile, the Tigers, a perennial playoff team, are snatching up closer Joe Nathan.

 

This organization, I am 100% certain, won't make a significant move this offseason.Instead, after ALL the marquee players and viable FAs are gone, we will add another Alexi Casilla type or other no name to the roster . We will stand pat on another do nothing off season and claim we are building within. Meanwhile, there is little if any homegrown talent coming through the gate.

 

With a good young core of talented players and a decent manager, it's frustrating as heck to watch.

[cravnravn]

Come on Guys, its only Dec 4, no way the O's wont make a move, We've competed for the past 3 years, I think the Angelos days of 97 thru 2010 are gone..

[varaven45]

Will see. Unfortunately, the days of Angelos wont be gone until Angelos is gone. btw- I am not looking for us to make a hair brain move like the Yanks for Ellsbury.

But how about some legit FA pitcher, closer and big stick in the lineup ?