Tornado700 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 My take, frankly, is this is the best thing that could happen to this team. Were we really a play off team? Not a chance. Winning is great but sometimes the losses are even more important because it points you in the right direction. And that is exactly what this team needs.It's my understanding that we will pick in the middle of the draft, something we haven't done for many years. We'll have like 9-10 picks. John Harbaugh got us to five straight playoffs. I wouldn't be surprized if he does it all over again.Get rid of at least three offensive starting lineman next year. Their play was downright offensive and the major cause of the Ravens demise this year. That where they need to start. Parity, that's what the NFL is, and you can't win them all. Regroup- it's all OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I guess so, but this has been a hell of a roller coasteryear. from getting hammered in Denver and at home vs New England, to beating Detroit and cincy and Miami when they were hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenMad Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 We get to start again on the O-Line this offseason. We have Osemele and Yanda to build around (They will be much better when they are starting at full health again next season). Oher is gone. Grad will be kept but we need to bring in someone he can be a backup to. This draft has a lot of OTs that will go in the first 2 rounds so we need to identify 1 and get him. I think we probably resign the LT. Not sure what Centers will be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 We get to start again on the O-Line this offseason. We have Osemele and Yanda to build around (They will be much better when they are starting at full health again next season). Oher is gone. Grad will be kept but we need to bring in someone he can be a backup to. This draft has a lot of OTs that will go in the first 2 rounds so we need to identify 1 and get him. I think we probably resign the LT. Not sure what Centers will be available. I think a Center is going to be priority, that way yanda can concentrate on his position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 But what really stinks, the Mrs knows the season is over, so now the honey-do list is back in play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenMad Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 But what really stinks, the Mrs knows the season is over, so now the honey-do list is back in playHaha and u can't even use the excuse that it's too cold outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 It is going to take about 3 yrs to clean up all the bad contracts on the roster. This I think might be a bit of a protracted downturn due to the cap situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 It is going to take about 3 yrs to clean up all the bad contracts on the roster. This I think might be a bit of a protracted downturn due to the cap situation.That and it might take 2-3 years of "solid " drafting - something that Ozzie and Co haven't done so well lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado700 Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 That and it might take 2-3 years of "solid " drafting - something that Ozzie and Co haven't done so well lately. I think that by the start of next season, the front office will have figured it out. It will take some considerable restructuring of contracts to bring in some good veterans. The Ravens F. O. and coaches have a great reputation for putting all the pieces together. I have faith that we'll be right back next year, not in 2 to 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 There is no way I push most of these contracts forward to make cap space. Rice you will not want into the future. Webby you have to see with another season what he is now. Ngata is a crazy deal. There are more. This will take a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 There is no way I push most of these contracts forward to make cap space. Rice you will not want into the future. Webby you have to see with another season what he is now. Ngata is a crazy deal. There are more. This will take a while.I think as long as we fix the offensive line we'll be right back in the hunt. It is really amazing we went 8-8 with the terrible line play we had. I thought Ngata played really well down the stretch. Suggs really worried me. He completely disappeared after a hot start. Suggs' number is huge this season, I think Ozzie presents him with a pay cut or lets him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I think this is the end of Suggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I do too. Real shame as he looked like a legitimate defensive player of the year candidate the first half of the season or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 It is going to take about 3 yrs to clean up all the bad contracts on the roster. This I think might be a bit of a protracted downturn due to the cap situation.Pops is right on this. It's not going to be a quick fix. And Oz and Da Costa have to really improve this team with better picks than they've been making lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Pops is right on this. It's not going to be a quick fix. And Oz and Da Costa have to really improve this team with better picks than they've been making lately.I don't think the contract situation is bad at all. The Suggs and Ngata deals are easy to get out of. Unless you consider the Flacco and Rice deals bad, we are in good shape. Fix the line and Flacco and Rice will perform a lot better. I also think Webb will return stronger next year. The Steelers are in much worse shape. We've never had to push contract forward by restructuring like a lot of teams have. This was our rebuilding year, maybe one more year max and we'll be right back in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/haloti-ngata/ Year Base S. Bonus Misc. Cap Hit Dead 2011 716,533 5,000,000 - 5,716,533 27,900,000 2012 2,900,000 5,000,000 2,500,000 10,400,000 32,900,000 2013 4,000,000 5,000,000 2,500,000 11,500,000 22,500,000 2014 8,500,000 5,000,000 2,500,000 16,000,000 15,000,000 2015 8,500,000 5,000,000 2,500,000 16,000,000 7,500,000 Please show me how a 15 mil cap hit is easy to get out of. Here are some of the big ones.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco/ Year Base S. Bonus Misc. Cap Hit Dead 2013 1,000,000 5,800,000 - 6,800,000 29,000,000 2014 6,000,000 5,800,000 3,000,000 14,800,000 38,200,000 2015 4,000,000 5,800,000 4,750,000 14,550,000 36,400,000 2016 18,000,000 5,800,000 4,750,000 28,550,000 25,850,000 2017 20,600,000 5,800,000 4,750,000 31,150,000 15,300,000 2018 20,000,000 - 4,750,000 24,750,000 4,750,000 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/vonta-leach/ Year Base S. Bonus Misc. Cap Hit Dead 2013 840,000 580,000 50,000 1,470,000 - 2014 1,750,000 580,000 - 2,330,000 580,000 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/ray-rice/ Year Base S. Bonus Misc. Cap Hit Dead 2012 2,000,000 3,000,000 - 5,000,000 15,000,000 2013 1,000,000 3,000,000 1,750,000 5,750,000 19,000,000 2014 4,000,000 3,000,000 1,750,000 8,750,000 14,250,000 2015 3,000,000 3,000,000 1,750,000 7,750,000 9,500,000 2016 3,000,000 3,000,000 1,750,000 7,750,000 4,750,000 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/terrell-suggs/ Year Base S. Bonus Misc. Cap Hit Dead 2009 1,000,000 2,020,000 4,000,000 7,020,000 - 2010 1,900,000 2,020,000 4,600,000 8,520,000 - 2011 3,400,000 2,020,000 4,600,000 10,020,000 - 2012 4,900,000 2,020,000 4,600,000 11,520,000 - 2013 6,400,000 2,020,000 4,600,000 13,020,000 11,220,000 2014 7,800,000 - 4,600,000 12,400,000 4,600,000 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lardarius-webb/ Year Base S. Bonus Misc. Cap Hit Dead 2012 615,000 2,000,000 - 2,615,000 - 2013 2,385,000 2,000,000 1,000,000 5,385,000 13,000,000 2014 7,500,000 2,000,000 1,000,000 10,500,000 10,000,000 2015 8,000,000 2,000,000 1,000,000 11,000,000 7,000,000 2016 8,000,000 2,000,000 1,000,000 11,000,000 4,000,000 2017 8,500,000 - 1,000,000 9,500,000 1,000,000 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/marshal-yanda/ Year Base S. Bonus Misc. Cap Hit Dead 2011 2,000,000 2,000,000 - 4,000,000 - 2012 700,000 2,000,000 950,000 3,650,000 - 2013 4,500,000 2,000,000 950,000 7,450,000 13,940,328 2014 5,500,000 2,000,000 950,000 8,450,000 6,490,328 2015 5,500,000 2,000,000 950,000 8,450,000 2,950,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/haloti-ngata/ Please show me how a 15 mil cap hit is easy to get out of. Here are some of the big ones.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/vonta-leach/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/ray-rice/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/terrell-suggs/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lardarius-webb/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/marshal-yanda/I don't consider Yanda, Webb, Flacco, or Rice bad contracts. Those are core players who we can win with. Ngata and Suggs will be easy to get rid of after next season. Suggs and Leach hit isn't bad even for 2014. My point hardly three years to clear up bad contracts IMO. Now if we want to debate the skill and value of the core players above, then I understand that. But with the core we have I think we will be able to compete right away next season shoring up the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Rice a core player? Also what is the difference between the words big and bad? I said big contracts. Of couse it is easy to get rid of Suggs after next yr he is not under contract. Suggs $12.4 mil isn't a bad number? If that is true what is a bad number? Ngata will be far easier to cut with a $7.5 dead money number in 2015. He stays fopr 2014 because the dead money is so large for that yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Rice a core player? Also what is the difference between the words big and bad? I said big contracts. Of couse it is easy to get rid of Suggs after next yr he is not under contract. Suggs $12.4 mil isn't a bad number? If that is true what is a bad number? Ngata will be far easier to cut with a $7.5 dead money number in 2015. He stays fopr 2014 because the dead money is so large for that yr.You said bad. It is going to take about 3 yrs to clean up all the bad contracts on the roster. This I think might be a bit of a protracted downturn due to the cap situation.Bad and big are independent and relative. A contract is bad if the player is washed up and isn't producing, regardless the size of the contract. There is nothing wrong with big contracts as long as the player is producing at a comparatively high level. Webb, Yanda, and Flacco have big contracts but I consider these guys playing at a high enough level to justify their contracts in relative to the market. Is Ray Rice a core player? Sure his contract looks bad after this season but I'm willing to give him one more year before I classify the contract as bad. I hardly think Rice is washed up at 26-years old. Suggs has a big number but because he's in the last year of his deal we have some flexibility to free up space regardless of the dead money (i.e. nothing to accelerate and that dead money is essentially a sunk cost against this year's cap. Look at the base salary we'd free up). Sure if we keep him at his current status it would be a bad deal, but I see that as highly unlikely. We have flexibility here. Ngata is subjective. The number is huge and his play has declined. However I feel he played very strong down the stretch and has a lot of value to give us still. At this point in his career he is probably overpaid, but he still produces at an above average level. Call it a bad contract if you want, but it is essentially for only one more season before we force him into a paycut or release situation like we will with Suggs this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/haloti-ngata/ Please show me how a 15 mil cap hit is easy to get out of. Here are some of the big ones.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/vonta-leach/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/ray-rice/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/terrell-suggs/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lardarius-webb/http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/marshal-yanda/You have some reading comprehension issues. Suggs only counting about 4.6 mil as dead money is easy. You either cut or trade him and eat that. They aren't pushing it back. His skills look to be aroding and you are not signing him long term so you cut ties.Ngata has to want to work with them. Why should he. They could have gotten him done earlier and saved money but they chose to wait and pay a lot. He is a PBer again. That is what his agent will say when they ask him to work with them. They wont cut that much salary.Webby looks to be coming back into his own. He is reletively cheap for a CB.Rice's deal just blows. They will have to suffer with him for a couple of yrs. It will be like when he was producing and McGahee was being paid to watch and spot in from time to time.The question with Yanda is was that injury that hurt him. I think it was and he will bounce back to his old self for 2014. Pretty big contract but you need some reliability on that line. On a similar note. Anybody know how many guys are under contract for 2014 right now and who the FA's are. I am not counting them 1 by 1 so just wondering if anyone has seen a list out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 You have some reading comprehension issues. Suggs only counting about 4.6 mil as dead money is easy. You either cut or trade him and eat that. They aren't pushing it back. His skills look to be aroding and you are not signing him long term so you cut ties.Ngata has to want to work with them. Why should he. They could have gotten him done earlier and saved money but they chose to wait and pay a lot. He is a PBer again. That is what his agent will say when they ask him to work with them. They wont cut that much salary.Webby looks to be coming back into his own. He is reletively cheap for a CB.Rice's deal just blows. They will have to suffer with him for a couple of yrs. It will be like when he was producing and McGahee was being paid to watch and spot in from time to time.The question with Yanda is was that injury that hurt him. I think it was and he will bounce back to his old self for 2014. Pretty big contract but you need some reliability on that line. On a similar note. Anybody know how many guys are under contract for 2014 right now and who the FA's are. I am not counting them 1 by 1 so just wondering if anyone has seen a list out there? Again, I find myself agreeing with all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 You have some reading comprehension issues. Suggs only counting about 4.6 mil as dead money is easy. You either cut or trade him and eat that. They aren't pushing it back. His skills look to be aroding and you are not signing him long term so you cut ties.Ngata has to want to work with them. Why should he. They could have gotten him done earlier and saved money but they chose to wait and pay a lot. He is a PBer again. That is what his agent will say when they ask him to work with them. They wont cut that much salary.Webby looks to be coming back into his own. He is reletively cheap for a CB.Rice's deal just blows. They will have to suffer with him for a couple of yrs. It will be like when he was producing and McGahee was being paid to watch and spot in from time to time.The question with Yanda is was that injury that hurt him. I think it was and he will bounce back to his old self for 2014. Pretty big contract but you need some reliability on that line. On a similar note. Anybody know how many guys are under contract for 2014 right now and who the FA's are. I am not counting them 1 by 1 so just wondering if anyone has seen a list out there?Hey hey no need for insults. I was responding to your first post. Nonetheless I could very well have reading comprehension issues as most of the time I'm responding from my iPhone. Anyways I think you're misinterpreting the Suggs and Ngata deals. Suggs has a number of $12.4M. $4.6M of that is a bonus that has already been paid and the remaining $7.8M is base. The $4.6M is a sunk cost whether Ozzie trades, cuts, or keeps Suggs. Ozzie is going to go to Suggs and say you reduce that $7.8M base or we're cutting you (or I guess try and trade with little leverage like we did with Boldin). The end result is probably going to be cutting Suggs and cap savings of $7.8M. Hence the flexibility. We are stuck with Ngata for 2014, as you mentioned, but the same concept applies to him and his $8.5M base salary for 2015. I am not saying we should restructure or extend either of these guys. Sure they are both Pro Bowlers but they are not worth the backend of their deals. We'll have to take a wait and see on the Rice deal. He's only 26-years old so he could very well come back as an elite running back next year. Then again Jamal Lewis started his rapid decline at 26. Ray is a hard worker and hasn't had any major injuries so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt before writing him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 The problem is you did not quote that statement. You quoted when I said big. Not every big contract is a bad one. I said those that are big and OK. Joe, Ngata, and Ray are big and bad contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 The problem is you did not quote that statement. You quoted when I said big. Not every big contract is a bad one. I said those that are big and OK. Joe, Ngata, and Ray are big and bad contracts.I misinterpreted your post then. You said bad in your first post which gave me the implication this team needed three years to clear up contracts to compete. You said big in your second post. I apologize for missing the subtle change there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 You can't call Joe's a bad contract. Yet, if he plays like he just did this season then you can, you have to pay your star Qb it's a fact in this league, Joe's contract is only guaranteed 62 mil, look around the league Eli , romo, Ryan, stafford, they all have contracts with more guaranteed money then joe does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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