Looking toward the draft

[colincac]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/8706/kipers-big-board-and-baltimore

 

Looking towards the draft, James Walker put the #21-25 players on Kipers Big Board up and talked about how they would fit on the Ravens. Though there is no WR there, you have to love Taylor Mays. This kid was the talk of the NCAA last year, but had an off year this year. He is a freak athlete with great knowledge of the game. I would love to have him on this roster at SS for a year or two and learning from Ed to take over for him soon.

 

I definitely want to focus on WR in the draft and FA, but I'm not sure what the WR prospects are like in the draft, so I would be perfectly happy to end up with Mays.

[varaven45]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/8706/kipers-big-board-and-baltimore

 

Looking towards the draft, James Walker put the #21-25 players on Kipers Big Board up and talked about how they would fit on the Ravens. Though there is no WR there, you have to love Taylor Mays. This kid was the talk of the NCAA last year, but had an off year this year. He is a freak athlete with great knowledge of the game. I would love to have him on this roster at SS for a year or two and learning from Ed to take over for him soon.

 

I definitely want to focus on WR in the draft and FA, but I'm not sure what the WR prospects are like in the draft, so I would be perfectly happy to end up with Mays.

 

I doubt Mays is around at 25 but one never knows. If we go receiver, Golden or Benn would be interesting. Regardless, we have to pick up a FA WR playmaker to rebuild our WR corps (regardless of Mason's plans).

[thundercleetz]

Unless Tate blazes a sub-4.3 40 (and he is not know as a fast guy, he is more "quick than fast"), I'll pass. Mark Clayton looked a lot like that in college as well, a do-it-all versitility guy who was a YAC threat in college and was considered a smart guy who knew how to get open. I am done with sub-6' receivers. Benn is an interesting prospect (he went to HS in DC), but is a very big risk. I am not sure how fast he is either. If Mays is there, you take him, but I doubt he is. Patrick Robinson is a CB from FSU that could be a guy to watch. It is still very early though, guys are going to move around the board a lot.

[geo]

Speaking of Clayton, what went wrong with him? His first two seasons was promising considering our QBs and OCs, but 2007 just terrible, 2008 again some promises late that season, but this season just awful and with no confidence. Obviously Flacco, Cam and health has to be a part of it, wondering if playing together with a similar type as Mason is another reason? And if we should get Mason back this season, Clayton has to go, if Mason is not back, I am not so sure.

 

When judging WRs in Ravens history, I am not forgetting Stokley, In Ravens nada, together with Peyton oops 1000 yards.

[cravnravn]

Speaking of Clayton, what went wrong with him? His first two seasons was promising considering our QBs and OCs, but 2007 just terrible, 2008 again some promises late that season, but this season just awful and with no confidence.

 

What went wrong with TD Taylor, he started like gang busters in 00, broke his collar bone and then developed dropitis..

[thundercleetz]

Kiper's first mock draft:

 

Baltimore RavensRecord: 9-7

Jermaine Gresham*, TE, Oklahoma

Gresham is so good that while he sat out his junior year, I left him on the Big Board the whole time. Now healthy, he's a great find this late in the first and a perfect target for Joe Flacco as an heir to Todd Heap. At a hair over 6-6 and 262 pounds, he's the total package at TE.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4841432

 

Definitely seems like an Ozzie pick. We knew how high he was on Pettigrew last season, Gresham is a more complete player than Pettigrew was coming out.

[SpearSrai]

Kiper's first mock draft:

 

 

 

Definitely seems like an Ozzie pick. We knew how high he was on Pettigrew last season, Gresham is a more complete player than Pettigrew was coming out.

 

Other guys still available at #25 in Kiper's mock:

 

Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan

Patrick Robinson, CB, FSU

 

And every receiver not named Dez Bryant.

 

Wouldn't be upset with any of these picks.

[colincac]

Where are the top receivers and Taylor Mays going in Kipers mock? I like the TE pick as well though.

[thundercleetz]

Where are the top receivers and Taylor Mays going in Kipers mock? I like the TE pick as well though.

 

Dez Bryant (the best receiver) is going #10 to the Broncos (Kiper is assuming they trade Marshall) and Taylor Mays is going #23 to the Pack. Golden Tate (the next receiver drafted) is going #29 to the Jets.

[SpearSrai]

I can't honestly see Mays falling past the teens after he runs a 4.3 at the combine (or at his pro day).

 

That said, it would be borderline-criminal to add him to our defense.

[varaven45]

We are equally weak at WR and in the secondary. The key is obviously FA.

If we pick up a legit WR (e.g. Marshall)in FA then we should go CB (Robinson) or S (Mays) with our first pick.

 

If we dont pick up a decent WR in FA, we have got to pick up a WR (the cat from Illinois ?) or the TE from Oklahoma.

 

Either way, through FA or the draft, we have to address our receiving corps and secondary in a BIG WAY.

 

If Mason and Reed return another year, that mitigates the urgency but in no way solves a problem that should have been addressed 2 yrs ago.

 

After these 2 concerns are addressed, we need to fortify our pass rushing folks (either from within (unlikely) or through draft). Ideally this guy would be an interior lineman as opposed to a LB.

 

In our later rounds, it would be nice to select another WR, another secondary player, a center (for Birk to groom) and a PK (in case Cundiff or Stover dont return).

 

My two cents.

[SpearSrai]

If we dont pick up a decent WR in FA, we have got to pick up a WR (the cat from Illinois ?) or the TE from Oklahoma.

 

Kiper compares Benn (Illinois) to Marvin Harrison. Which I assume means that Benn has been running an underground crime ring out of Illinois for the past 3 years.

 

After these 2 concerns are addressed, we need to fortify our pass rushing folks (either from within (unlikely) or through draft). Ideally this guy would be an interior lineman as opposed to a LB.

 

See, I think our interior pass rush is about as good as it's going to get in our scheme. Can we really expect a rookie to play better than Ngata, Edwards, and Gregg? Edwards, mind you, probably got more pressure on the quarterback than any of the other guys this postseason (even if that was because Ngata was being doubled.)

[colincac]

Mays to 23 is crazy. There is absolutely no way that Ozzie wouldn't trade up if Mays was that close to our pick, he and Reed together would scare offenses shitless.

[thundercleetz]

Gresham, provided he is fully recovered from his injury, would be a GREAT pick for us. We know how much Ozzie liked Pettigrew, you can be sure he will have his eyes on Gresham. Spear is right, Mays is definitely a guy who is going to be a workout warrior and probably be taken higher than he should. At the same time, he could end up being a Kenny Phillips taken at the end of the first round.

 

See, I think our interior pass rush is about as good as it's going to get in our scheme. Can we really expect a rookie to play better than Ngata, Edwards, and Gregg? Edwards, mind you, probably got more pressure on the quarterback than any of the other guys this postseason (even if that was because Ngata was being doubled.)

 

I think there is some merit to that. But the fact that Ngata is doubled on every play (and he legitimately is) should open opportunities on the outside. Dwan Edwards, as you mentioned, was a great surprise for us and needs to be re-signed. He is Pryce's long-term replacement. So what we need is a guy who can win one-on-one matchups on the outside. I don't care if the guy is a one-dimensional pass-rusher, we need someone who we can just let loose on the QB. Suggs should be able to be that guy who wins the one-on-one matchups, but he is inconsistant. Hopefully the fact that he will be taking part in offseason workouts will help him this season. A guy like Elvis Dumervil came into the league as a one-dimensional pass rusher and got 8.5 sacks his rookie year. Orakpo came in and notched 11 sacks and Clay Matthews got 10. These are guys who got their sacks from just winning one-on-one matchups, nothing really to do with scheme.

 

Look at the Skins pass rush. Last year it was horrible. They got Haynesworth, and they drafted Orakpo. Orakpo got a lot of these matchups because teams double Haynesworth, we need a guy who can make teams pay for doubling Ngata. On the other side Andre Carter got 11 sacks as well. Carter is similar to Suggs, a guy who plays the run well, but cannot be "the guy" as the pass rusher. When Suggs got 12 sacks, he had Boulware. If we can get a legitimate pass rusher on the other side of Suggs, it will take a lot of pressure off of him as teams will have to account for Ngata and two good pass rushers.

[SpearSrai]

 

I think there is some merit to that. But the fact that Ngata is doubled on every play (and he legitimately is) should open opportunities on the outside. Dwan Edwards, as you mentioned, was a great surprise for us and needs to be re-signed. He is Pryce's long-term replacement. So what we need is a guy who can win one-on-one matchups on the outside. I don't care if the guy is a one-dimensional pass-rusher, we need someone who we can just let loose on the QB. Suggs should be able to be that guy who wins the one-on-one matchups, but he is inconsistant. Hopefully the fact that he will be taking part in offseason workouts will help him this season. A guy like Elvis Dumervil came into the league as a one-dimensional pass rusher and got 8.5 sacks his rookie year. Orakpo came in and notched 11 sacks and Clay Matthews got 10. These are guys who got their sacks from just winning one-on-one matchups, nothing really to do with scheme.

 

Look at the Skins pass rush. Last year it was horrible. They got Haynesworth, and they drafted Orakpo. Orakpo got a lot of these matchups because teams double Haynesworth, we need a guy who can make teams pay for doubling Ngata. On the other side Andre Carter got 11 sacks as well. Carter is similar to Suggs, a guy who plays the run well, but cannot be "the guy" as the pass rusher. When Suggs got 12 sacks, he had Boulware. If we can get a legitimate pass rusher on the other side of Suggs, it will take a lot of pressure off of him as teams will have to account for Ngata and two good pass rushers.

 

So if you're Ozzie, with the 25th pick, and you have to choose between Brandon Braham, Jermaine Gresham, Patrick Robinson, and Sergio Kindle, which way do you go? Prototypical tight end, prototypical pass-rusher, prototypical speed-corner, or prototypical outside linebacker (in a 3-4)? Assume for a minute that we're not thrilled with any of the pure receivers available, and will address that in the second.

 

Right now, I would probably go Graham, assuming he runs well at the combine.

 

EDIT: Check out this tape on Graham.

 

Pay special attention to 3:49 and 4:32, where Graham absolutely destroys the left tackle, #79 Bryan Beluga, aka Mel Kiper's 20th ranked prospect.

 

Graham also delivers some of the hardest hits I've seen in college, such as the bonecrusher at 5:10. Now THAT is a hit that Ray Lewis would be proud of!

 

He also displays incredible open-field tackling ability by owning Terrell Pryor at 7:27.

[RavenMad]

I would throw up if we drafted Mays that high. All I see is a gym rat with no football instincts. He is the next Roy Williams IMO and just ask the 'boys how good a safety he was.

 

Perhaps he could learn better habits from Ed Reed but I don't know if what Ed Reed does is even teachable.

 

If we haven't traded our 1st round pick for a WR then I would be happy with either Gresham, Graham or Kindle. Although if we keep with the 3-4 then Kindle would fit better. He can play LB and then put his hand in the dirt on 3rd down and rush the passer. Could Graham do that would be a question I would need answered before I was happy. I'm also scared of taking Gresham here. How well will he be recovered from that knee injury?

 

The other option I like is to trade down, maybe to the top of the 2nd round and pick up some more picks later in the draft. At that point we get good value on any of the 2nd tier WRs such as Benn or Williams.

[colincac]

I would throw up if we drafted Mays that high. All I see is a gym rat with no football instincts. He is the next Roy Williams IMO and just ask the 'boys how good a safety he was.

 

Perhaps he could learn better habits from Ed Reed but I don't know if what Ed Reed does is even teachable.

 

If we haven't traded our 1st round pick for a WR then I would be happy with either Gresham, Graham or Kindle. Although if we keep with the 3-4 then Kindle would fit better. He can play LB and then put his hand in the dirt on 3rd down and rush the passer. Could Graham do that would be a question I would need answered before I was happy. I'm also scared of taking Gresham here. How well will he be recovered from that knee injury?

 

The other option I like is to trade down, maybe to the top of the 2nd round and pick up some more picks later in the draft. At that point we get good value on any of the 2nd tier WRs such as Benn or Williams.

 

No football instincts? What games have you been watching? Roy Williams is not half the athlete Mays is either. Williams is slow and can't do anything but hit, Mays has the speed necessary to play either SS or FS, I don't think they compare at all.

[geo]

Gresham, provided he is fully recovered from his injury, would be a GREAT pick for us. We know how much Ozzie liked Pettigrew, you can be sure he will have his eyes on Gresham. Spear is right, Mays is definitely a guy who is going to be a workout warrior and probably be taken higher than he should. At the same time, he could end up being a Kenny Phillips taken at the end of the first round.

 

 

 

I think there is some merit to that. But the fact that Ngata is doubled on every play (and he legitimately is) should open opportunities on the outside. Dwan Edwards, as you mentioned, was a great surprise for us and needs to be re-signed. He is Pryce's long-term replacement. So what we need is a guy who can win one-on-one matchups on the outside. I don't care if the guy is a one-dimensional pass-rusher, we need someone who we can just let loose on the QB. Suggs should be able to be that guy who wins the one-on-one matchups, but he is inconsistant. Hopefully the fact that he will be taking part in offseason workouts will help him this season. A guy like Elvis Dumervil came into the league as a one-dimensional pass rusher and got 8.5 sacks his rookie year. Orakpo came in and notched 11 sacks and Clay Matthews got 10. These are guys who got their sacks from just winning one-on-one matchups, nothing really to do with scheme.

 

Look at the Skins pass rush. Last year it was horrible. They got Haynesworth, and they drafted Orakpo. Orakpo got a lot of these matchups because teams double Haynesworth, we need a guy who can make teams pay for doubling Ngata. On the other side Andre Carter got 11 sacks as well. Carter is similar to Suggs, a guy who plays the run well, but cannot be "the guy" as the pass rusher. When Suggs got 12 sacks, he had Boulware. If we can get a legitimate pass rusher on the other side of Suggs, it will take a lot of pressure off of him as teams will have to account for Ngata and two good pass rushers.

 

 

Is there any stats of how many times you play with seven people in front? I would expect the Ravens to be playing more with 5 and six DBs than most.

 

If that is so I believe our sack number will only raise for real with a superman at CB, so we migth be able to play with a front seven and not a front six all the time. The difference between us and Jets is at CB.

[vmax]

Here's an early look at how many compensatory picks the Ravens will get...

 

Hidden bonuses in the NFL every year are compensatory picks. This is when the league awards teams with extra mid- and late-round draft selections for losing productive free agents the previous year.

 

Although predicting the round is not an exact science, here is an early look at key free agents lost from each team in 2009 that may result in additional picks this April:

 

Baltimore Ravens

 

LB Bart Scott (New York Jets)

C Jason Brown (St. Louis Rams)

S Jim Leonhard (Jets)

DL Marques Douglas (Jets)

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/8886/early-preview-compensatory-picks

[geo]

Here's an early look at how many compensatory picks the Ravens will get...

 

I expect nothing. Remember we got Fox, useless LJ Smith who was gameday active so many times, Carr and Birk.

[thundercleetz]

I expect nothing. Remember we got Fox, useless LJ Smith who was gameday active so many times, Carr and Birk.

 

Scott got six-years, $48 million, Dom Foxworth got only four-years, $28 million, that hardly cancels out. Jay Brown received five-years, $37.5 million, we do not have a comparable contract for that either. I do not know the formula for determining comp., but how about a couple of fourth rounders?

[geo]

Scott got six-years, $48 million, Dom Foxworth got only four-years, $28 million, that hardly cancels out. Jay Brown received five-years, $37.5 million, we do not have a comparable contract for that either. I do not know the formula for determining comp., but how about a couple of fourth rounders?

 

This so called blog-compensationpick-expert from Dallas, Adam..? Comments that we would get nothing but a 7th round; Adam: If you don't suffer a NET LOSS in qualifying free agents, you don't get a true comp pick, period. That's a simple equation. If a team lost four All-Pro players who signed for $10 million apiece and signed five marginal players for $2 million apiece, it would not get a comp pick at all.

 

The Ravens signed four and lost four. They did not suffer a net loss, so they can't get a true comp pick. They're only hope is for a "net value" comp pick, which is given at the end of the seventh round to teams who break even in quantity (they signed exactly the same number of qualifying players that they lost) but suffer a significant net loss in value as determined by the formula. And that's a purely mathematical equation

[thundercleetz]

Damn, you're right. That guy is usually spot on with his predictions too. I guess a seventh is better than nothing...

[cravnravn]

Not saying with our 25th pick..But

 

http://espn.go.com/n...playerId=191583

 

Now when you say his numbers arent good for the first 3 years, consider he was behind Macklin and Saunders..This guy exploded this year as the featured WR.

Edited January 26, 2010 by cravnravn

[SpearSrai]

Not saying with our 25th pick..But

 

http://espn.go.com/n...playerId=191583

 

Now when you say his numbers arent good for the first 3 years, consider he was behind Macklin and Saunders..This guy exploded this year as the featured WR.

 

In 3 of his last 4 regular season games, he had over 200 yards receiving - and was close the other time too. He also had double-digit receptions in all of those games.