The Jamal Conundrum

[pumpkinhead]

Jamal Lewis is unsigned as of this date. It seems unlikely (IMO) that he will be signed before the 2010 season begins.

 

Assuming he is not signed during the 2010 season (a probable occurrence [iMO] given Jamal's age and salary requirements [under the CBA]), do you think Jamal Lewis will be ready to retire after the 2010 season and if so - do you think he deserves enshrinement in the Ravens' Ring of Honor?

 

IMO he does deserve enshrinement in the Ravens' Ring of Honor, being [again IMO] the greatest running back in Baltimore history. I acknowledge the achievements of great ball carriers like Lydell Mitchell and Lenny (spats) Moore, but Jamal Lewis (IMO) surpassed both of those tremendous Baltimore running backs in terms of pure athletic ability (power and speed).

 

In addition, his statistics (not that I am enamored of statistical comparisons across generational lines) argue [iMO] for his inclusion in the Ring of Honor - he is the current second place holder for NFL rushing yards in a season (at 2,066).

 

Also, from what I can tell (I might be wrong) with respect to Baltimore rushing records:

1. Jamal Lewis has 7,801 yards rushing for Baltimore versus the next closest of 5,487 for Lydell Mitchell.

and

2. Jamal Lewis has 1,822 rushing attempts for Baltimore versus the next closest of 1,391 for Lydell Mitchell.

3. However, Jamal Lewis does trail the great Lenny Moore for Baltimore rushing touchdowns by a margin of 63 (for Moore) to 45 (for Lewis).

 

Even so, given what Jamal Lewis has done to ensconce himself in the pantheon of Baltimore running backs, it seems to me [iMO] that Jamal Lewis has earned a place in the Ring of Honor. What does the board think?

[BMoreHon]

Good question to ask! In my opinion, no based on the following attributes for the ring:

 

Character: The induction into the Ravens Ring of Honor represents the highest honor for a career of individual accomplishment resulting in team success. Teams constructed with character reduce uncertainty and stay on their purpose Ravens of Honor maintain direction with intense focus character is at the beginning of the cycle and takes them all the way to a successful ending.

 

 

Gratitude: Ravens of Honor carry forth a special attitude of gratitude, to those around them, they are always a fountain rather then a drain. Each is different but all keep those around them on the path of progression. Their basic ability to enjoy their talents and gifts of others help them to continually contribute as opposed to contaminate.

 

 

Vision: Fueled by self-knowledge, great character and an appreciation for everything available to them. Ravens of Honor visualize short and long term successes in Technicolor. They are, through vision, great connectors. Those around them are energized and they use all that surrounds them to create an inspirational bigger picture.

 

 

Passion: Passionate Ravens have an unusual ability to face failure, physical setbacks and exhaustion. They have an internal tenacity that helps them get back up when knocked down. Their passion motivates teammates to join in on the pursuit of the team dream. Passion breeds conviction and turns mediocrity into excellence. With passion, we can overcome all obstacles.

 

 

Faith & Courage: Ravens of Honor stand tall in the good times as well as the rough times. They are help up by their deep faith in themselves, their teammates and their fans. Inspired by belief in a great destiny, these champions never waver from their victorious path. Faith is belief in what you cannot see. Great vision matched with unbridled passion sets up absolute faith. Faith evokes a special courage and confidence. When matched with action, faith kills worry and procrastination, the two traits which produce regular failure.

 

Competitive Spirit: True competitors want to be put on the line and measured. They thrive on adversity and use it to achieve a special edge. They know the easy lakes get fished out first, thus they skip the easy. Persistence, determination, tenacity and sportsmanship are the hallmarks of this warrior mentality. Ravens of Honor need character, gratitude, vision, passion and faith to become a championship caliber competitor. There are no shortcuts and they do not look for them, because their competitive fire will not allow them to.

 

 

Humility: Humility in oneself inspires the best of others and feeds our character. A vital aspect of the true leadership is the willingness of others to follow.

 

 

Jamal yes put up the stats but team wise was always whining about getting the ball, always wanting to be traded, and oh yeah missed half a season being in jail. He never was entrenched in the community nor bought into the team concept. He also went to a divisional opponent for $$ and I don't get the feeling he left on great terms.

 

Based on the criteria above, I say no...

[Spen]

I do. If not for Jamal the Ravens dont win or make it to the Super Bowl the one season.

 

Then a few years later a 2000 yard season.

 

He was much more important than Byner ever was and Byner is in the ring of honor.

[cravnravn]

Isnt Jamals name being tossed around by that Canadian thats been busted for selling Roids?

 

 

IMO he does deserve enshrinement in the Ravens' Ring of Honor, being [again IMO] the greatest running back in Baltimore history. I acknowledge the achievements of great ball carriers like Lydell Mitchell and Lenny (spats) Moore, but Jamal Lewis (IMO) surpassed both of those tremendous Baltimore running backs in terms of pure athletic ability (power and speed).

 

Please dont put Jamal with Lenny Moore, Jamal could do one thing, and one thing only..Get the ball and run forward, and god help anything in his way.

 

Lenny Moore, was poetry on spikes, he did it all, RB, skat back, WR..Jamal couldnt catch a swing pass to save his soul, whereas Lenny would catch that 2 yard swing pass and turn it into 35 yards, not by running you over but by making the other team miss tackling him.

 

But, I agree Jamal should be in the Ravens ROH..

 

I still have the ticket from that glorious Sunday when he just walked thru Leaveland like they wernt there.

[pumpkinhead]

Good question to ask! In my opinion, no based on the following attributes for the ring:

 

Character: The induction into the Ravens Ring of Honor represents the highest honor for a career of individual accomplishment resulting in team success. Teams constructed with character reduce uncertainty and stay on their purpose Ravens of Honor maintain direction with intense focus character is at the beginning of the cycle and takes them all the way to a successful ending.

 

 

Gratitude: Ravens of Honor carry forth a special attitude of gratitude, to those around them, they are always a fountain rather then a drain. Each is different but all keep those around them on the path of progression. Their basic ability to enjoy their talents and gifts of others help them to continually contribute as opposed to contaminate.

 

 

Vision: Fueled by self-knowledge, great character and an appreciation for everything available to them. Ravens of Honor visualize short and long term successes in Technicolor. They are, through vision, great connectors. Those around them are energized and they use all that surrounds them to create an inspirational bigger picture.

 

 

Passion: Passionate Ravens have an unusual ability to face failure, physical setbacks and exhaustion. They have an internal tenacity that helps them get back up when knocked down. Their passion motivates teammates to join in on the pursuit of the team dream. Passion breeds conviction and turns mediocrity into excellence. With passion, we can overcome all obstacles.

 

 

Faith & Courage: Ravens of Honor stand tall in the good times as well as the rough times. They are help up by their deep faith in themselves, their teammates and their fans. Inspired by belief in a great destiny, these champions never waver from their victorious path. Faith is belief in what you cannot see. Great vision matched with unbridled passion sets up absolute faith. Faith evokes a special courage and confidence. When matched with action, faith kills worry and procrastination, the two traits which produce regular failure.

 

Competitive Spirit: True competitors want to be put on the line and measured. They thrive on adversity and use it to achieve a special edge. They know the easy lakes get fished out first, thus they skip the easy. Persistence, determination, tenacity and sportsmanship are the hallmarks of this warrior mentality. Ravens of Honor need character, gratitude, vision, passion and faith to become a championship caliber competitor. There are no shortcuts and they do not look for them, because their competitive fire will not allow them to.

 

 

Humility: Humility in oneself inspires the best of others and feeds our character. A vital aspect of the true leadership is the willingness of others to follow.

 

 

Jamal yes put up the stats but team wise was always whining about getting the ball, always wanting to be traded, and oh yeah missed half a season being in jail. He never was entrenched in the community nor bought into the team concept. He also went to a divisional opponent for $$ and I don't get the feeling he left on great terms.

 

Based on the criteria above, I say no...

Interesting. Based on those criteria, Jamal Lewis is wanting. Those are tough standards to live up to, but the Ravens have definitely had other players who hit on more of them than Jamal Lewis does.

 

I think Jamal Lewis met some of those criteria but definitely did not meet them across the board.

 

Some specific comments: "Gratitude: Ravens of Honor carry forth a special attitude of gratitude, to those around them, they are always a fountain rather then a drain.". I was never in the locker room, but he probably whiffed on this one.

 

"Vision: Fueled by self-knowledge, great character and an appreciation for everything available to them. Ravens of Honor visualize short and long term successes in Technicolor.". Probably not the case for Jamal Lewis. He seemed to to take his career more one season at a time, never really applying a long term view.

 

"Passion: Passionate Ravens have an unusual ability to face failure, physical setbacks and exhaustion. They have an internal tenacity that helps them get back up when knocked down.". I'd say he connected on this one, overcoming the knee injuries and being the workhorse. He never pulled a Corey Dillon and yanked himself that I recall.

 

"Faith & Courage: Ravens of Honor stand tall in the good times as well as the rough times.". Probably not so much, he did seem to complain to Preston during the bad times.

 

"Competitive Spirit: True competitors want to be put on the line and measured.". I think he nailed this one, as far as the first line goes.

 

"Humility: Humility in oneself inspires the best of others and feeds our character.". Hard to say for me. I tend to think not, but I do not know the man.

 

Overall, he does seem wanting based on these criteria. Good point.

[pumpkinhead]

I do. If not for Jamal the Ravens dont win or make it to the Super Bowl the one season.

 

Then a few years later a 2000 yard season.

 

He was much more important than Byner ever was and Byner is in the ring of honor.

I take Byner as a flyer, pay back from Art Modell for Byners' loyalty to the Browns.

 

He does not belong in the Ravens' ring of honor IMO. I kind of bleep over his name, sometimes I live in my own little world. Kind of like everytime TV talking heads mention P.Manning breaking some Baltimore record...BLEEEEEP.

 

I agree about the super bowl and the 2000 yard season. IMO, between the lines he was a great running back for Baltimore.

[papasmurfbell]

I don't get the question. Of course he should be in.

[pumpkinhead]

 

...Please dont put Jamal with Lenny Moore, Jamal could do one thing, and one thing only..Get the ball and run forward, and god help anything in his way.

 

Lenny Moore, was poetry on spikes, he did it all, RB, skat back, WR..Jamal couldnt catch a swing pass to save his soul, whereas Lenny would catch that 2 yard swing pass and turn it into 35 yards, not by running you over but by making the other team miss tackling him.

 

...I still have the ticket from that glorious Sunday when he just walked thru Leaveland like they wernt there.

True, Lenny Moore and Jamal Lewis had very different skill sets as halfbacks, comparing them may have been foolish on my part.

 

It just struck me when compiling the stats that Jamal Lewis had more yards for Baltimore, more even than Moore. Of course, Lenny Moore played in 12 game (and maybe a few 14 game?) seasons, with fewer playoff games so he did not have as many opportunities as Jamal Lewis did.

 

Point taken though, I won't compare those 2 again.

 

Jamal Lewis' rare combination of power and speed made games like that great game against Cleveland possible though, he could run over many LB'ers, almost every safety and probably every corner yet also outruun nearly every one except the corners. He had his limitations as you wisely pointed out, but wow, what a back.

 

Great game though against Cleveland. Glad you could you be there. I might get the tape out and watch that one again.

[pumpkinhead]

I don't get the question. Of course he should be in.

That seems to be the plural opinion so far.

 

Bmorehon brings up the good point that he may be lacking in the character department. If the Ravens hold to their stated criteria (very lofty they seem to me, but they have seemingly had players who meet them), that might prevent them from offering him a place in the Ring of Honor.

 

On balance though, I hope they offer him a spot.

[papasmurfbell]

Hell if you have Byner in there it seems to errode any trivialities of that BS fed case. While he should not have done it those were pretty trumped up charges.

[ForceEight]

Just read the criteria. The Ring of Honor is not a collection of the best statistically successful players in Ravens' history.

 

I wouldn't complain if he were offered, but I'm not terribly thrilled with the idea of him being part of it.

[vmax]

Definately.

He belongs there...he carried the offense on his back for years...going against 8, 9, 10 in the box at times.

 

Like Spen says...no Super Bowl without Jamal.

[cravnravn]

Like Spen says...no Super Bowl without Jamal

 

 

Bulshit, no SB without TRENT

 

 

[vmax]

Like Spen says...no Super Bowl without Jamal

 

 

Bulshit, no SB without TRENT

 

 

Bullshit...no Super Bowl without Stover.

 

Edited May 23, 2010 by vmax

[BMoreHon]

I guess for me, we have a lot more great players both on the field and off the field that will make a great impact for this team to come. Based on the criteria, it doesn't matter what Jamal did statistically; if he makes it I won't be mad either. I will say I want OJ Brigance in that ring before Jamal though....

[papasmurfbell]

I don't know why they waited for OJ. His wife woul dhave to make his speach now. A few yrs ago he could have done it.

[BMoreHon]

I know Papa. I want to cry when I think about OJ. The real tear jerker though is he would want to say a few words. What a wonderful and inspiring person and athlete. I wish I kept the Ravens Reports on my DVR....

[millz58]

Bullshit...no Super Bowl without Stover.

 

BULLSHIT...NO SB XXXV WITHOUT RAY-RAY & LBs, we had such a mediocre secondary and so little consistent offense except for Jamal. Shannon Sharpe had some stellar moments, but really it was the front 7 of the D. The Dline was of course big-time, but really the LBs and their iconic leader Ray Lewis made this team what it was that year.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRlIEMhv-ZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vtf3-EyHoA&feature=PlayList&p=0DDE04F0341B9C31&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=21

 

oh, and about Jamal, I think he will get into the ROH; I'm not sure he should be because I've never thought about the requirements for the induction (I always wondered about Byner being in, but never really thought about it...)

[bmw800]

Honestly, I don't understand how you say that Jamal shouldn't be in the Ring of Honor. He did a lot of things for this team (remember, he carried the offense for quite a few years. He WAS the offense). Sure, he didn't last at his peak for as long as we all would have liked, but that's a function of his running style and the sheer amount he was used over the years and especially in 2003. In terms of numbers and team success, he deserves to be there.

 

A lot of people are also bringing up character, and those "attributes" for the Ravens' Ring of Honor. Leaving aside the fact that pretty much every one of those things is a meaningless platitude that will, likely, never actually be applied on any consistent level, Jamal lives up to more than you give him credit for. Sure, he may have been frustrated about lack of carries from time to time, but I think that it was just that, frustration. Jamal was quiet, introverted, but it was obvious that he cared very much for winning and was quite passionate about the game and the team. The desire to win sometimes bubbled over to the point where he complained about not getting the ball. I don't think it was necessarily selfish on his part (though certainly it comes across that way), I think he just cared too damn much and thought that he could be better helping the team (and, really, he was right a lot of the time). I also cannot remember him over complaining after a team win.

 

Finally, as it comes to character, I don't think he can be excluded from the Hall based on character. I think if you were to exclude Jamal, you would have to exclude Ray also, and no one here (myself included) would argue for that. What Jamal did to get put in jail, while still a mistake (one he has freely admitted all along, I might add), was merely a blip on the radar screen, and the only reason it was even a big deal was that he had used a cell phone vice a pay phone. In fact, there probably was an 80% chance that he would have been acquitted, but with a minimum 10 year sentence if convicted, you can see why he didn't want to take that chance. Remember, Ray has had his questionable character marks too, also plead guilty to a criminal offense (obstruction of justice), has also whined about the team at times (about the DL, etc.), and I don't think anyone is rushing to push him out. So give Jamal his due. I think he's earned a spot in that ring.

[papasmurfbell]

There would have been no SB without any of the ingredients. Banks would not have done it. Without Stover more than likly no playoffs. No Jamal would stopped us in the playoffs. Without that D that scored like an offense we would mnever have sniffed the post season.