RR is Not JL

[oldno82]

I don't think this offense can 'pound the ball' anymore like it used to. Not only is the offensive line not as powerful on the run but Ray Rice is not Jamal Lewis who bowled over defenders even when they were stacked 8 and 9 in the box. Don't get me wrong---Ray is a great multipurpose back, but he doesn't have the power Jamal had to make something happen when there is no hole.

 

Again, Cam needs to adapt his system to the talent available not the other way around. More slants, more Boldin screens, more use of Stallworth and Housh, and use Ray Rice to keep defenses honest. I am beginning to think Cam is the biggest problem. He's definitely talented, but he micromanages Flacco too much, doesn't use the shotgun and no-huddle enough, and doesn't use Ray Rice properly. He has to change---be changed.

[papasmurfbell]

No doubt. RR is more like Priest. Priest became a star in KC with a finesse offense. They have aspects of trying to go that route but not all of it.

[deeshopper]

I don't think this offense can 'pound the ball' anymore like it used to. Not only is the offensive line not as powerful on the run but Ray Rice is not Jamal Lewis who bowled over defenders even when they were stacked 8 and 9 in the box. Don't get me wrong---Ray is a great multipurpose back, but he doesn't have the power Jamal had to make something happen when there is no hole.

 

Again, Cam needs to adapt his system to the talent available not the other way around. More slants, more Boldin screens, more use of Stallworth and Housh, and use Ray Rice to keep defenses honest. I am beginning to think Cam is the biggest problem. He's definitely talented, but he micromanages Flacco too much, doesn't use the shotgun and no-huddle enough, and doesn't use Ray Rice properly. He has to change---be changed.

 

No, Ray Rice is not Jamal Lewis. I don't even know how a comparison can be made when they aren't even the same type of back. I disagree with you about Rice not being able to make something happen when there is no hole. Rice is an all-purpose back who finds holes that aren't there and sheds defenders off of him on those long runs. (That's about the only kind of similiarity I can see between both backs.) He did it for the first two years he was here. He just never got the touchdowns, but he was the workhorse that moved the offense down the field. It was just McClain or McGahee that ran the short distances in the redzone.

 

In Lewis' first three playing years (he missed his second year, which was after the Super Bowl win), Lewis had 309, 308, and 387 rushing attempts in those seasons. Rice has NEVER been near that (107, 254 and currently 231). Rice averaged 4.2 and and 5.3 yards per carry and Lewis averaged 4.4 (2000) and 5.3 (2003) in the best years of his career. Not much of a difference there production wise (except Lewis had way more touches), but Rice has averaged essentially half of the number of fumbles.

 

The problem, in my opinion, is that, as you said, he isn't being utilized properly. Lewis played under the QB circus, when teams knew we were going to run, so his numbers are impressive. Rice's numbers should be moreso but aren't for two reasons: 1) he is more of a receiving threat than Lewis ever was (he averaged 14.3 yards per gain and Rice averages 34.5); and 2) he isn't being utilized properly!

[oldno82]

Dee, as I said, I'm not knocking Ray Rice but he just isn't a power back like Jamal. Many times I've seen JL hit a solid wall right at the line, bounce off, and run off tackle down the field breaking tackles as he went. Plus, Jamal had the size and strength to carry the ball all those carries in a game. RR doesn't appear to have that kind of durability given his size. Ray is more of a back who hits a hole very quickly and moves downfield with great quickness, but I don't think we can 'pound the ball' with him given our offensive line's lack of charge off the ball (to say nothing of how the line has so much trouble pass protecting). Thus its hard for our offense to tire out an opposing defense like we used to do when Jamal was here.

 

We need to take advantage of RR's elusiveness in the open field; use him more on swing passes out of the backfield, run more sweeps, and get him more away from traffic because it looks like this line just can't open up enough lanes on a consistent basis for him.

[papasmurfbell]

What they should so is look at tape of the great Rams and Chiefs teams. That kind of offense is what they almost all the personnel for.

[deeshopper]

Dee, as I said, I'm not knocking Ray Rice but he just isn't a power back like Jamal. Many times I've seen JL hit a solid wall right at the line, bounce off, and run off tackle down the field breaking tackles as he went. Plus, Jamal had the size and strength to carry the ball all those carries in a game. RR doesn't appear to have that kind of durability given his size. Ray is more of a back who hits a hole very quickly and moves downfield with great quickness, but I don't think we can 'pound the ball' with him given our offensive line's lack of charge off the ball (to say nothing of how the line has so much trouble pass protecting). Thus its hard for our offense to tire out an opposing defense like we used to do when Jamal was here.

 

We need to take advantage of RR's elusiveness in the open field; use him more on swing passes out of the backfield, run more sweeps, and get him more away from traffic because it looks like this line just can't open up enough lanes on a consistent basis for him.

 

I get it, really. But how many years have we been complaining about the offensive line? Forever! For me, it is more of playcalling/coaching issue. It sounds like we agree.

[vmax]

Jamal had a big ass, road grading line. Ray doesn't have that...no J.O....Mulitalo,...Zeus. No Heap hurts too. McLain is not 100%.

Ray has no holes...he bounces around trying to find one.

 

It's true...this is a totally weaker line without Gaither because too many players are out of their best position. Oher at RT. Yanga at RG. Gaither at LT. Throw in an aging Birk and this line got weaker and worse in one year...and it all starts and ends with the line.

 

Coaching is part of the problem too. The scheme is not right. They wanted faster more athletic guys and now they can't beat anybody up. They are not wearing out anybody. Defenses are not worn down going into the 4th.

 

So they keep everybody in to block. Guess what? Now you can't use all your receiving weapons...they are rusting away.

 

All of the above are reasons this offense can't explode...in my mind.

[cravnravn]

And Jamal Lewis didnt make 10 years in the NFL..No pension for him..

[colincac]

I didn't bother to read any replies or the topic in this thread, because if people haven't realized by this point that your OFFENSIVE LINE is what makes your RB, then they need to pay more attention. Last year with Gaither healthy there were holes galore, while this year the push up front has been non-existent. Our lack of protection is also what has hurt Joe occasionally, but it has moreso impacted the running game. We definitely need to address the issue in the offseason.

[papasmurfbell]

No doubt the OL isn't right. I do think there are schematic solutions to some of it.

[yagersports]

I don't think that the answer to our blocking situation is as simple as just get bigger road grading guys. Shannahan in Denver had a great running attack every year, it was like clockwork. The most distinguishing factor, everyone always pointed out that Denver routinely had one of the lightest OL in the NFL.

 

I think that we need better technique or perhaps better athletes. Perhaps the answer is our coaching staff isn't familiar enough with blocking to get this unit to excel. Perhaps the staff assembled is more comfortable with big road grading types. I don't know, but I do believe the talent is there to block much better than they are. It seems that they just don't seem prepared.

 

Anyone notice whether we have type of blocking schemes like crash left and crash right. It seems most of the time we're trying to Man up and block the guy in front of us. We don't get many cutback runs from Ray this year, and alot of the time those cutbacks are the result of every lineman blocking the guy to his left or right instead of straight ahead. I'm just curious if we employ much of that type of blocking scheme.

[papasmurfbell]

If we go to a more finesse blocking scheme like KC and the Rams from back in the day I think it would make RR all world. I think the OL is straddling the line of finesse and road grader.

[cravnravn]

Shannahan also taught that undersized line to block dirty, they were notorious cheap shot artist..

 

Not under the Goodell watch would we get away with that.

[oldno82]

I get it, really. But how many years have we been complaining about the offensive line? Forever! For me, it is more of playcalling/coaching issue. It sounds like we agree.

 

Yes! We do agree. The problem is offensive playcalling and coaching. Papa is right too that we need to look at what other teams did with similar talent that we have.

 

On the offensive line we have two number one draft choices, Oher and Grubbs, a third round pick, Chester, and Yanda does a good job. Birk, I don't know if he's history or not---just haven't watched him enough to know for sure but there is talent there and that is what leads me to say offensive line coaching needs a lot of work.

[yagersports]

Shannahan also taught that undersized line to block dirty, they were notorious cheap shot artist..

 

Not under the Goodell watch would we get away with that.

 

 

Yes he did, and that was addressed, and he still had an undersized line blocking routiniely for 1000 yard backs. Even with the rule change, he still got undersized lines to perform.