O Line Discussion

[vmax]

We have a couple of O lineman topics here so I just wanted to make a feeble effort to put it all under 1 roof.

The state of the Offensive line is a big issue. A major one.

 

Here's the situation:

It's not just 1 guy on the O line who is the problem. It's all of them....coaching too.

 

McKinnie puts his hands on a guy once and then acts like he's done his job and then he stands and watches the play.

Osemele has back issues so his game is not 100% like last year. He's a shadow of himself but this is the reason.

Gradkowski is not big enough physically to play smash mouth ball and it will take time for him to get close to reading defenses and calling adjustments like Burke could. He's a highway for nose tackles and blitzing linebackers.

Yanda is a weaker version than last year because he was limited in what he could lift in the off season. This affects his physical play style and the run game. He just is not up to strength.

Oher...something's not 100% right with him too...it will come out later, but he needs to get that nasty mean streak back.

 

On top of this Osemele and Yanda have to help Gradkowski...so with their injuries they have this additional weight to pull.

 

The only solution for the 2013 season that I see is putting Monroe in at LT and hope he does well. Then hope Osemelee and Yanda get healthy quick. They may need the bye week to come back 100%.

Gradkowski is the center because the other options are worse. He's a hard worker. Let's hope he develops, reads better and grows into a better center as the year progresses. Yesterday was his 6th NFL game if you count last year. He needs time.

Michael Oher has to play under control but real pissed off.

 

And then there is the coaching and scheme..... From Philadelphia via John Harbaugh.

Philly did not have a smash mouth rushing attack. I was never a fan of their run game.

The Ravens have always been smash mouth. It's part of their winning philosophy and Harbaugh does understand and embrace that. He get's it. He wants to be the most physical team on the field.

But...the feature back and playmaker is Ray Rice. You're not road grading with him so Wilbert Montgomary is the perfect coach for him. Ray has been terrific...until now the offense ran through him. He may be playing hurt right now....may have lost a step...but he's dancing in the hole too much. He is not running like he used to. Something is wrong and it's not his heart and guts. Pierce...he must be hurt too. And the running lanes are few. Rice had some yesterday, but he danced too much while Leach cleared a lane into the second level. Something is not right there.

But...this Castillo guy is implementing a scheme that does not work well for his personnel. It, in a sense, neuters them. You really can't get all mean, nasty and physical and beat the defensive front 7 into a shell. Caldwell never had it with Manning.

There's a disconnect here in how to accomplish a nasty, physical run blocking O line.

 

The current smash mouth solution is to fire Leach out of a cannon into a linebackers face until the LB wants no parts of him any more. It's punishing, but for years we saw defensive front 7's in the 4th quarter looking at the clock, looking at the side lines and looking at the tunnel wanting to go home and definitely looking in the dirt when the Ravens O line towered over them.

Not this season........... Well...They did beat the Dolphins up in the second half yesterday. I guess that's a start.

 

IN Short: We saw what McKinnie, Osemelee, Burke, Yanda and Oher can do against the best in the playoffs last year. They were dominant. 4 of those 5 men are still in uniform.

All that's changed is Burke and McKinnie....and health. Maybe McKinnie has packed it in...maybe physically he doesn't have it any more...he is one huge man getting older and slower. But he looks like Kip Vickers on the field at this point in the season.

Gradkowski is a weak link, but he's no quitter. He needs time to develop into this unit. He's learning under fire....and he may not be the long term answer at center.

 

Get these guys healthy and put Monroe in there and we'll see a very solid line. Ozzie knows it. That's why he got Monroe now.

 

Get it done ASAP before Joe get's sent to the ER. He's getting mauled and it's only a matter of time before an arm, or a knee or rib injuries strike.

 

Edited October 7, 2013 by vmax

[tgann68]

Is the problem Castillo?

 

O-Line the same but maybe its the new blocking schemes?

 

 

perplexing.

[GrubberRaven]

What changed, coaching wise, from last year? Did we get rid of someone?

 

Plus the fact, when your anchor, the center, is failing...how are the guys around him supposed to recover. Shows how great Birk was. Osemele is between two turds, so what's he supposed to do?

[oldno82]

I don't know if Grad is the answer at center. But unless you like Shipley, he's gonna play there all year. I do think its a weak spot.

 

Osemele, Yanda, and Oher all have the talent but at least one of them is beat up. McK is apparently not playing to anywhere near the level he showed during the playoffs. Monroe will help out with that problem hopefully starting this week.

 

I'm worried about Osemele's back. Rest is pretty much all you can do for that and we are not strong at all with backups anywhere along the line.

 

If he can make a quick recovery and with Monroe coming on board the line will be adequate. Birk had a great year last year, better than the previous one for that matter. We're hurting at Center.

[ravinmaniac52]

Andy Moeller is the O-Line coach, has been for 3 years.

 

Juan Castillo is Run Game Coordinator, not sure what that is.

I am no fan of Juan Castillo.

 

There is a rookie on the team, Ryan Jensen. They loves this kid and are really hoping he will push for the center job.

[cravnravn]

I dont know what happened to the play calling from the time we fired Cam til now.. We have come so predictable we all know whats coming.

 

WE NEED THE RUN TO OPEN THE PASS, its not happening, how come Pierce can bust off a few gainers and Rice cant? Giving the ball twice to Ray, then facing 3rd and 8, well Im sorry but no one is going to stop the defense from pinning their ears back and coming for Joe.

[colincac]

I dont know what happened to the play calling from the time we fired Cam til now.. We have come so predictable we all know whats coming.

 

WE NEED THE RUN TO OPEN THE PASS, its not happening, how come Pierce can bust off a few gainers and Rice cant? Giving the ball twice to Ray, then facing 3rd and 8, well Im sorry but no one is going to stop the defense from pinning their ears back and coming for Joe.

Rice has been the big disappointment in my eyes. Even before he hurt his hip, he was going down like a sack of potatoes while Pierce is able to create yards after contact. We're seeing first-hand why they say to not give big money to RB's in this league.

[Money]

Going forward, I would love to see Monroe signed long-term. I would like to move Osemele back to RT. I want the Ravens to draft a stud LG (which is achievable towards the bottom of the first round, unlike T). I don't want them to give up on Gino, but they need to bring in better competition next year (whether that be through the draft or FA).

[Oldschool739]

Get Castillo out of here, first and foremost, alert Gino that he's on a short leash and better pick it up el pronto, trade Fat Mac for either a slot recvr or center....

Here's the shocker, trade RR while he is still believed to be valuable, he is "obviously" which is his fav word, starting on the downside of his career and is not worth the cap hit to us anymore....As someone already said, RB's are a dime a dozen, or something to that effect....

 

Gitty Up !!!!

[Money]

Get Castillo out of here, first and foremost, alert Gino that he's on a short leash and better pick it up el pronto, trade Fat Mac for either a slot recvr or center....

Here's the shocker, trade RR while he is still believed to be valuable, he is "obviously" which is his fav word, starting on the downside of his career and is not worth the cap hit to us anymore....As someone already said, RB's are a dime a dozen, or something to that effect....

 

Gitty Up !!!!

 

They will have Rice for two more years.

 

2014 cap hit if he's on the team = $8.75mil / off the team = $14.25mil

 

2015 cap hit if he's on the team = $7.75mil / off the team = $9.5mil

 

It doesn't make sense to part ways with him until 2016.

[cravnravn]

Holy Shit Money!!!! So in other words rice has biscuit by the short hairs

[Oldschool739]

They will have Rice for two more years.

 

2014 cap hit if he's on the team = $8.75mil / off the team = $14.25mil

 

2015 cap hit if he's on the team = $7.75mil / off the team = $9.5mil

 

It doesn't make sense to part ways with him until 2016.

Wouldn't a trade eliminate all or at least most of the cap hit for the one year only on us? And then what could be done with the other 5 mil or so that we would save there after by getting a much cheaper RB to spell Pierce with ?

[Money]

Wouldn't a trade eliminate all or at least most of the cap hit for the one year only on us? And then what could be done with the other 5 mil or so that we would save there after by getting a much cheaper RB to spell Pierce with ?

The majority of Rice's contract was guaranteed bonus money. His per year base salaries are low. When Rice signed his deal, he got $15mil as a signing bonus. For cap purposes, this gets split over the 5 years at $3mil per year. He also just got an option bonus of an addition $7mil this year. This gets split at $1.75mil per year over the remaining 4 years. If the Ravens cut or trade Rice, all of this money accelerates into the year he is gone as "dead money". For cap purposes, the first year it actually becomes cheaper for him to be off the roster than on the roster is 2016 which is the last year of his contract.

 

BTW...the 2015 numbers I listed above obviously wouldn't apply if he was gone in 2014. It is a one year hit which lessens each subsequent year.

[Oldschool739]

The majority of Rice's contract was guaranteed bonus money. His per year base salaries are low. When Rice signed his deal, he got $15mil as a signing bonus. For cap purposes, this gets split over the 5 years at $3mil per year. He also just got an option bonus of an addition $7mil this year. This gets split at $1.75mil per year over the remaining 4 years. If the Ravens cut or trade Rice, all of this money accelerates into the year he is gone as "dead money". For cap purposes, the first year it actually becomes cheaper for him to be off the roster than on the roster is 2016 which is the last year of his contract.

 

BTW...the 2015 numbers I listed above obviously wouldn't apply if he was gone in 2014. It is a one year hit which lessens each subsequent year.

I'm no expert but I believe the team he is traded to could pick up that contract, or negotiate part of it, like Jags did with us, or offer a new one to Rice.

With that in mind it could be a draft pic or 2 and little to no money out of pocket.

Even so, Ozzie knows every avenue around the cap and it's restrictions, I think he could get it done if he so desires.

[oldno82]

The majority of Rice's contract was guaranteed bonus money. His per year base salaries are low. When Rice signed his deal, he got $15mil as a signing bonus. For cap purposes, this gets split over the 5 years at $3mil per year. He also just got an option bonus of an addition $7mil this year. This gets split at $1.75mil per year over the remaining 4 years. If the Ravens cut or trade Rice, all of this money accelerates into the year he is gone as "dead money". For cap purposes, the first year it actually becomes cheaper for him to be off the roster than on the roster is 2016 which is the last year of his contract.

 

BTW...the 2015 numbers I listed above obviously wouldn't apply if he was gone in 2014. It is a one year hit which lessens each subsequent year.

Well that's depressing!