outside the lines: team cover up

[vmax]

There's nothing here..."Yet"...that is see that warrents firing somebody on the Ravens or somebody stepping down.

Last thing they need is another fall guy.

 

I want Goodells head to roll because I think he's real bad for the present and future of this sport.

[tsylvester]

I think Ozzie might be the only one who ends up going somewhere, but I think it relates more to the fact that he's getting older and may or may not be tired of this sh*t as this point.

 

Cass is a very good friend of Bisciotti and I don't see Steve doing that to him. That doesn't leave many other options.

 

Byrne is one who comes to mind as well; he certainly hasn't done a very good job with this.

 

 

Yep, this is the "perfect" out of Ozzie. He is a player first, before management, always has been. I just can't see him sticking it out through the lies, mistruths, etc, that makes a player look worse than he truly is, so I can see Ozzie "retiring", maybe after the season, maybe sooner.

[dc.]

There's nothing here..."Yet"...that is see that warrents firing somebody on the Ravens or somebody stepping down.

Last thing they need is another fall guy.

 

I want Goodells head to roll because I think he's real bad for the present and future of this sport.

Max, just like you think these guys "saw the best" because they wanted to... You're doing the same now.

 

Sure, we can say they were just trying to protect a guy they like and respect. I get that.

 

But this entire situation is bigger than people in Baltimore realize it is - nationally it is huge. And this report pretty much says the Ravens did everything they could to cover their ass... While deceiving the public. As a public relations firm - which is really what they are - that's lethal.

 

Worse yet, they are throwing others, like Rice, under the bus and denying their role in "protecting him" ... And now there being called out on it.

 

People get fired to give the image of "cleaning house" and that's what I'm predicting.

[vmax]

I get your point dc. Perhaps I am trying to see "they best".

 

Tell me how a sacrifical lamb will help matters.

[dc.]

I get your point dc. Perhaps I am trying to see "they best".

 

Tell me how a sacrifical lamb will help matters.

Not arguing that it will. It hardly ever does. Just saying that it probably will happen.

 

And from my view, it needs to happen because someone really should be punished for this mess - Goodell included.

[OutsideRzAcE]

But isn't that how organizations work? I think he can almost do what Goodell said in his presser - I'm going to step back a bit, accept some help, and those who were responsible for our failures are going to be removed.

 

Doesn't even technically have to be fired. Convinced to resign, Newsome says, "our failures in this have led me to... I think for the his of the team and my conscience..."

 

I think that is how organizations work (the head guy pegging a fall guy) when there isn't so much evidence of the head guys involvement. In order words, before this report came out Bisciotti could possibly have pegged Cass as a fall guy, but now everyone knows he had even more involvement in the cover up. I agree with Force - I think Ozzie could leave of his own free will. The fact that he wouldn't tow the company line about Rice's lying and by doing so effectively hurt Bisciotti and Goddell hints at the possibility that he and Bisciotti could be butting heads.

[OutsideRzAcE]

Not arguing that it will. It hardly ever does. Just saying that it probably will happen.

 

And from my view, it needs to happen because someone really should be punished for this mess - Goodell included.

 

Rather than firing someone for a coverup that he pretty much orchestrated, Bisicotti needs to own up to everything and impose some kind of self punishment on his organization (if you can do that) for the embarrasment caused to the organization, fans, and the league. Pay a $500,000 fine and forfeit next year's first rounder. I don't think it needs to go further than that.

[papasmurfbell]

The way it sounds to me from the OTL report, Cass is set up to be the fall man for the Ravens.

I agree with that. But in that Cass worked at the firm that Mueller works at would that smear the report? Also would Cass go back to that firm?

 

 

Don't disagree. I could see Ozzie too, as huge add that would be. My bet though is that one takes the sword and the others make quieter exits over the next year or so, but as part of a PR cleaning house.

I can't see how Ozzie survives this unless Biscotti comes out and owns all of this and says he was totally wrong. I see the possibility of that like I see the local Pee Wee league team beating the Ravens.

 

 

I get your point dc. Perhaps I am trying to see "they best".

 

Tell me how a sacrifical lamb will help matters.

It is a PR move. It shows you did something. A head rolled. People are usually foolish enough to think that fixes it. Remember how Shinseki was supposed to fix the VA when they gave him th ejob. It didn't change the situation but he was hailed at the time.

[dc.]

 

Rather than firing someone for a coverup that he pretty much orchestrated, Bisicotti needs to own up to everything and impose some kind of self punishment on his organization (if you can do that) for the embarrasment caused to the organization, fans, and the league. Pay a $500,000 fine and forfeit next year's first rounder. I don't think it needs to go further than that.

 

Right. That's what I meant by mirroring Goodell's presser. But in punishing the "organization" that will include some heads beneath him rolling.

[tsylvester]

between the jersey give back and the text from Biscut, Rice is not a happy camper and my bet, is singing like a canery to the media behind the scenes. Tomorrow should be intersting to see what Biscut told his ilk to say. What ever it is, you can bet, for the average fan they won't even know anything went on and are happy the Ravens won, yippie... For the more die hard fan, it will be enough, they will, like Max, think the best, after all, Rice is the one who hit Janay, hit, not beat her, let us remember that part.

 

The question is, what happens with the casual fan? Do they walk away? How many of the die hard fans walk away, or at least, stop buying the merchandise, just keep what they have, attend one or more less games per year, dvr the games to get around the ratings......?

[papasmurfbell]

But for the national football fans it will matter and will push the media to keep digging.

 

I think Rice is going to sue the Ravens bigtime.

[cravnravn]

But for the national football fans it will matter and will push the media to keep digging.

 

I think Rice is going to sue the Ravens bigtime.

 

For what???? Film doesn't lie, ray rice is a fuckin punk

[dc.]

For what???? Film doesn't lie, ray rice is a fuckin punk

For being slandered and called a liar by his employer while his employer was engaged in a massive cover up. For becoming a fall man for an organizations failure.

 

Heard today Rice's appeal will be based on the fact that his second suspension was based on still incomplete evidence and investigation - they say his description didn't match the video. He's likely to say it did if you watch the whole video, not just a ten second clip

[papasmurfbell]

For being slandered and called a liar by his employer while his employer was engaged in a massive cover up. For becoming a fall man for an organizations failure.

 

Heard today Rice's appeal will be based on the fact that his second suspension was based on still incomplete evidence and investigation - they say his description didn't match the video. He's likely to say it did if you watch the whole video, not just a ten second clip

Thx for also trying to talk rationally to the obviously insane.

[papasmurfbell]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/21/ravens-strategy-should-be-simple-clear/

Ravens’ strategy should be simple, clear

The Ravens believe the lengthy ESPN report that dropped less than two hours after Roger Goodell’s press conference contains plenty of mistakes. Some minor ones have been pointed out privately; at least one (a suggestion that center A.Q. Shipley watched the Week One game with Ray Rice even though Shipley was playing center for the Colts) apparently has been quietly scrubbed from the story.

But the story has two primary contentions: (1) director of security Darren Sanders had the contents of the second elevator video described to him by an Atlantic City police officer only hours after Rice Rice knocked out Janay Palmer; and (2) team president Dick Cass (pictured) had been told by Rice’s lawyer that the video was “f–king horrible,” that Rice “knocked her the f–k out,” and that Cass urged Rice to enter a pre-trial intervention program, in part to keep the video from ever becoming public.

While the Ravens have deferred listing the alleged inaccuracies in the report until after Sunday’s game at Cleveland, it should be easy to address the key contentions in the story, if the Ravens contend that those contentions are in dispute. Sanders needs to say that the allegations relating to him aren’t true. And Cass needs to say that the allegations relating to him aren’t true.

That’s precisely what Saints G.M. Mickey Loomis did in April 2012. After ESPN’sOutside the Lines claimed that Loomis had tapped into the in-game conversations of opposing coaches, Loomis went on the record and flatly denied it.

Nothing ever came of any of it, and by all appearances the Outside the Lines report landed outside the lines, literally. While it’s open to debate and discussion regarding whether the apparently erroneous report about the Saints undermines the new report about the Ravens, the point for now is that, when Loomis faced allegations that he deemed to be untrue, he said so. Loudly.

The longer the Ravens wait to do that, the harder it will be to get anyone to believe it.

 

[papasmurfbell]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/22/harbaughs-stance-may-have-fueled-coverup/

Harbaugh’s stance may have fueled the reported coverup

As we wait (and wait . . . and wait) for the Ravens to address the alleged “errors, inaccuracies, false assumptions and, perhaps, misunderstandings” in the ESPN report alleging that Ravens director of security Darren Sanders knew the contents of the notorious elevator video in February and Ravens president Dick Cass knew in early April, coach John Harbaugh has addressed the report that he lobbied for the team to cut Rice in February.

“Every single football decision we make, we work together,” Harbaugh told reporters after Sunday’s win at Cleveland, as Josh Alper has pointed out. “Just like every football decision. You get together, you hash it out. [G.M.] Ozzie [Newsome] uses the term scrimmaging. You scrimmage it out, everybody’s got their opinions. It’s not black and white.”

Asked by Peter King of TheMMQB.com whether Harbaugh wanted to cut Rice in February, Harbaugh didn’t provide an unequivocal no.

“That is such an unfair characterization,” Harbaugh said. “It is not fair to the organization. We said all along that the facts would determine the consequences, and that was my stance from the start of this.”

Reading those comments together in light of the ESPN report, it’s a faircharacterization to say that Harbaugh at least raised the possibility of cutting Rice in February, and that Newsome’s “scrimmaging” process resulted in a consensus that the Ravens would keep Rice — but that ultimately “the facts would determine the consequences.”

The facts, once they finally came to light via TMZ, determined the ultimate consequence for Rice. If Harbaugh indeed raised during the “scrimmaging” process that the team should cut Rice, it’s reasonable to believe that Harbaugh’s agreement to keep Rice hinged on the facts showing that Rice didn’t punch his then-fiancée.

Once the facts showed he did, end of story.

So if, as the ESPN report contends, Sanders, Cass, and perhaps others in the organization knew the true contents of the elevator video before the elevator video came out, perhaps they concealed the truth not only to secure a short suspension from the league office, but also to keep Harbaugh from winning the internal scrimmage as to whether a player who had been paid $25 million between July 2012 and December 2013 should be dumped from the roster.

Either way, ESPN’s contention that the Ravens knew the contents of the video long before seeing it has not yet been rebutted by Sanders or Cass. The only person who has spoken is Harbaugh, whose remarks actually help demonstrate why a coverup happened, if a coverup in fact did occur.

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/22/john-harbaugh-stands-behind-teams-handling-of-ray-rice/

John Harbaugh stands behind team’s handling of Ray Rice

The Ravens refused to address the inaccuracies and errors they believe are included in ESPN’s report about the way the team reacted to Ray Rice’s February arrest over the weekend, but that didn’t stop coach John Harbaugh from being asked about the report after Sunday’s victory over the Browns.

Specifically, Harbaugh was asked about a part of the report that had him pushing for Rice’s release in February only to be overruled by General Manager Ozzie Newsome and others in the organization. The Ravens’ denial of that claim is in the report and, after initially saying he’d discuss these matters on Monday, Harbaugh said the team was united in their decision.

“We work together in our organization. I’m going to go ahead and answer this question, OK? Every single football decision we make, we work together,” Harbaugh said, via the Baltimore Sun. “Just like every football decision, you get together, you hash it out. Ozzie uses the term scrimmaging. You scrimmage it out. Everybody’s got their opinions. It’s not black and white. It’s never nuanced on anything. That decision was exactly like all the other ones. And we walked out of that room, we were united, we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, and that’s how I felt about the decision. I thought it was the right decision. And the way we handled it, all the way through, I felt like was the right way to handle it all the way through. I felt like we did the right thing, and I stand behind it. That’s all I’m going to say about it.”

What Harbaugh doesn’t say is whether or not he wanted Rice dropped from the roster and ultimately the answer doesn’t matter if Harbaugh’s not going to take issue with the team’s ultimate decision. It’s still a question he’s sure to get again once the Ravens break their silence in response to the report on Monday, though.

 

[vmax]

They answered everything today.

 

I repeat: I am very satisfied with his press release.

It's important to put it in writting, where words can't be twisted.
Then Steve sat for an hour answering questions.

I feel much better about Steve and the Ravens organization. I nay that knowing that they could have handled things better...which they admit.

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Message-To-Fans-Regarding-ESPN-Story/b2ed215d-3999-4715-b947-21b460930bc7

[dc.]

The biggest joke of the press release is the "q and a" format designed to look transparent.

 

In reality, it's a brilliant way to include multiple voices without showing anyone access to them, to push back to their answers, etc. I especially love that Darren Brown apparently remembers the exact date he spoke to the police... Eight months later.

 

Not satisfied.

[Tornado700]

But for the national football fans it will matter and will push the media to keep digging.

 

I think Rice is going to sue the Ravens bigtime.

 

LOL. On what grounds Einstein?

[papasmurfbell]

On slander Hawkins.

[cravnravn]

If anyone is suing I say it's the ravens suing rice for some of the bonus money.

[papasmurfbell]

If anyone is suing I say it's the ravens suing rice for some of the bonus money.

For what reason?

[cravnravn]

For what reason?

He never played a down this year and since he was under contract next year and he won't be a ravens uniform then go aafter up front money.

[papasmurfbell]

He never played a down this year and since he was under contract next year and he won't be a ravens uniform then go aafter up front money.

Foxworth blew out his knee in the preseason and never played a down. He wasn't sued. Ray didn't breach the contract. the Ravens cut him.

[ForceEight]

Foxworth blew out his knee in the preseason and never played a down. He wasn't sued. Ray didn't breach the contract. the Ravens cut him.

In all honesty, the conviction and suspension probably did violate the terms of his contract. The Ravens just aren't a team that seeks to get money back, it seems.